Why did you kill stealth netrunning?

[Stinkyremy]

Sure one of the decks would suit your style, the quality of the hacks just increase and add effects, synergies with other hacks etc.
netrunning has the most versatility, especially with overdrive and cyberware that heal on kill, insta heal you (blood punmp) res you (second heart)
You can get to a point where you have a near infinite amount of ram without stacking ram as well as being aggressive if you like..

TBH I have found that most of the small incremental perks in INT for hacking are actually only useful as a beginner netrunner. When you have ll cyberware, better hacks and better a deck they are useless.
Like you get EX disk cyberware, basically all hacks load instantly so you need no perk points in upload speed and you can get the +% stats off the cyberware too.

Personally I am limiting my hacks and deck to 1 on this playthrough and saving other netrunner style playthroughs for another build, bit I can see myself using a mix and match of coloured hacks, not all iconic at end game for example and as I said that 32 ram install for legendary mind wipe, the extra stat should have been an entire new hack.

 

[Draconifors]

I agree with those saying it is all but dead. Yes, until you get Tier 3 Sonic Shock, it can (and often is) challenging, but nowhere near "dead".

Early on, you need to take your time (I use throwing knives to speed things up), but that one quickhack really changes things completely.

I easily clear entire buildings/areas without ever being spotted or using a weapon. Cameras are excellent for both hacking and finding out where enemies are; I often just sit in one spot, cycling through cameras and zapping enemies through the cameras. It's super fun, and I never get discovered unless I accidentally don't start a queue with Sonic Shock.

 

[Greeniewolf]

As ToreadorVampire says, you need other cyberware and/or perks to be able to spam throwing knives, and quickhacks are much more accessible. Makes sense that quickhacks would need more restrictions than knives in this case.


When I say they are all connected, I mean by a DIGITAL network. Think of it like this : You have multiple PCs in your house, all connected to the same wifi. I hack your wifi, and input a virus that slows down your download speed. Every user in the house will immediately notice the input of this virus, and (assuming they are all technologically literate) everyone will naturally start to look for the cause. However, on the very same network, if one of the PCs shuts down, the other PCs wouldn't necessarily be able to see it. So yes, on a DIGITAL network, it makes perfect sense that quickhacks would lead to a trace, but throwing knives or snapping necks wouldn't. It's simple logic, really.

Also, while I do think that having a netrunner that leads the trace was a cool mechanic that worked well, tracing is also a very basic mechanic that anyone connecte to a network could realistically be able to do. It's also quite slow, especially once you have an actual netrunner build. So clearly, the trace is not run by an expert.

That's not how it works. Sorry, but no, not every user will immediately notice the virus. Even viruses that go active immediately upon install still take time to detect, and by that point the hacker is going to be out of the system.
If you're going to spread misinformation, please do it elsewhere.

 

[Guest 3847602]

So because it isn't how you play, it has to go? Not everyone loves sandevistan.

What does Sandevistan have to do with silent netrunning?
Nothing has to go. I said already that I don't have any hope of future updates bringing the game to the playable state (for me) and that I only wish that future games are designed by people who actually understand the appeal of stealth games and the idea of progression in RPGs.

 

[Grantig]

I have a skill which can trace back enemy netrunners once tracked and kill them with a quickhack.
No more tracing afterwards.

 

[Kraxe13]

I posted this in another thread. But I am going to post it here too because it works for this one as well. (Sorry if this is frowned upon.)

•••

Let’s face it. There is a large subset of gamers who are not happy with the gameplay of the “new” netrunner combat system.

That is not to say that there is no fans of the new way, it’s just that the new way came at the expense of the old way. When both ways could have been kept in game for the player to choose.

Do they want to fight without weapon finishers, in the old style, fight like T-Bug did vs V in that old cinematic?

Or fight more confrontational with knives or guns, akin to the recent anime?

Both should have had room in the new system. Saying one is “too easy” makes no sense in a single player game, when a more challenging way (or just plain upping the overall difficulty level of the game in general) is offered to the player.
Should we eliminate “easy” difficulty as an option because it is too easy for some players? Is choosing “Very hard” difficulty too much a hindrance? Obviously no, and eliminating a way of playing because it is too easy seems equally strange.

Also, the argument that “it is still powerful” is not the point. No one is stating that overclocking legendary hacks is not powerful. The argument is that it is not enjoyable to play (for many players). There is an important distinction there.

For myself, it’s not that I don’t know that eventually the game play may become less annoying. (Oh, tier 3 sonic shock works against all enemies being expert net runners even when they are unconscious, you say? What about tiers 1 and 2? What’s the solution there for a stealth hacker?) it’s that the road to over drive is not enjoyable and even then I don’t think the destination gameplay is one that I want to play.

So to sum up, it does not matter that net running is still powerful, nor does it matter that you personally (the person reading this) finds it now more enjoyable. What matters is that there is a subset of players (like myself) who liked the old play style more. And that was eliminated, full stop. It’s just poor design and with a new (non free) dlc it feels like a bait and switch.

 

[Greeniewolf]

So I wish to kill multiple claims here with just two simple videos;

Claims such as;

• Stealth Netrunning is dead/impossible
• Netrunning became worse and "you can no longer wipe groups of enemies with just buttons"
• Nonlethal stealth is now impossible
• Stealth is more "challenging, in-depth" now
• Tracing forces Netrunners into melee range or to avoid hacking altogether
• Netrunners now have to rely on melee/ranged weapons to do stuff

I present to you the Claim Killers, enjoy;

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. Can explain fully in-depth what, how and why. Naturally this is not how I play, just a demonstration to show that everything a Netrunner was able to do pre-2.0, they can do now far better than ever because you CERTAINLY could not wipe out an entire group of enemies simultaneously like this before 2.0 without anyone being alerted at all.

Pre-2.0 a person needed either the Rippler or Netwatch cyberdeck to do 20% of what is shown in the videos, but now because there are absolutely no cooldowns you don't even need any cyberdecks to spread hacks. We just spread them manually and everyone falls to the ground.

Also tracing? Bye bye, say hello to my little friend Sonic Shock. Tracing as a mechanic itself needs improvements/rework because it should not be deleted from the game like this, but it also should not be a permanently persistent uninterruptable timer either. It's in a very bad spot right now because I haven't even seen it at all and this is a fresh 2.0 playthrough.

• T1 - Distract
• T2 - Distract or Bait, followed by Sonic Shock to sprint and grab enemies from behind since they're deaf
• T3 - Bye bye tracing, bye bye challenge. Not even Alt Cunningham can go toe-to-toe against a Netrunner now ^^

sure I have a question the videos you posted contradict your claims, so please explain how they "kill the claim?"

Post automatically merged: Oct 16, 2023

Especially when OP has been exposed as objectively wrong about almost every point they addressed [via videos, quotes, guides, and in-game texts]

except op has been proven objectively right. those claiming the sytem is "more realistic" or "more fun" all admit they have to rely on knife spamming. Which isn't netrunning. So nope. OP is correct.

 

[Crimsomrider]

sure I have a question the videos you posted contradict your claims, so please explain how they "kill the claim?"

Alright, lets see...

• Stealth Netrunning is dead/impossible

Both videos show a pure stealth Netrunner in action wiping out 6 bad guys simultaneously or taking them down by waltzing between them. In both examples there are zero alerted enemies and all non-lethally taken down.

• Netrunning became worse and "you can no longer wipe groups of enemies with just buttons"

1st video shows that not only can a Netrunner wipe out an entire group of enemies, they can wipe an entire group without anyone becoming alerted (this was not possible before). And Contagion is even more broken in 2.0 than it ever was pre-2.0.

• Nonlethal stealth is now impossible

Refer to first answer.

• Stealth is more "challenging, in-depth" now.

Wipe out 6 bad guys simultaneously or deafen/blind everyone and do it manually... truly in-depth challenging stealth gameplay.

• Tracing forces Netrunners into melee range or to avoid hacking altogether

Video shows... wait... you mean that mechanic that T3 Sonic Shock deletes at level 12? Yeah... that doesn't exist at all.

• Netrunners now have to rely on melee/ranged weapons to do stuff

Completely debunked by the first video, but if that ain't enough then here's another where a Netrunner takes out 3 times more bad guys by just standing still.

Anything else?

 

[Greeniewolf]

Both videos show a late almost end game netrunner, on a modded game with mods designed to try and imitate pre-2.0 behavior.
So I guess yes, if you want to rely on mods and wait till late in the game to be able to do things you should be able to do pretty much as soon as you're out of the tutorial, then sure those videos can refute the arguments. for those that don't have to rely on mods though...

I won't deny that in end game now you can have stealth netrunning, but it should be possible much earlier in the game. Simply spamming knives the whole game to be stealthy is boring. very. very boring.

 

[Crimsomrider]

Both videos show a late almost end game netrunner, on a modded game with mods designed to try and imitate pre-2.0 behavior.
So I guess yes, if you want to rely on mods and wait till late in the game to be able to do things you should be able to do pretty much as soon as you're out of the tutorial, then sure those videos can refute the arguments. for those that don't have to rely on mods though...

Is that so? I did not know that a level 18 Netrunner is the "endgame", which you would notice if you'd divert your functional eyes to the top-left corner of the video. All of the things I've shown can be done from level 12 onward without an issue.

 

[Greeniewolf]

Is that so? I did not know that a level 18 Netrunner is the "endgame",

yes I consider 18 endgame since i can hit the point of no return by low twenties when ignoring side missions, assaults, etc. Now if I'm playing as a completion ist then no, it's not endgame.

 

[Crimsomrider]

Without doing a single piece of side content and exclusively doing just the four main missions in ACT 1 to get to ACT 2, I had absolutely zero issues getting through all of them as a fully undetected stealthy Netrunner from level 1 with nothing but quickhacks and bare hands, while taking down absolutely everyone along the way non-lethally;

• The Rescue
• The Information
• The Pickup
• The Heist

I always only do the main missions to get to ACT 2 because I like to save all side-content for Johnny's commentary. So the statement that "stealth netrunning is an endgame activity that should be available sooner" is simply untrue, because I actually play from the very beginning as a truly pure in-depth stealth Netrunner whose only weapon is their mind and will not resort to killing.

I even explained how it's done for early levels while simultaneously avoiding tracing to another user in this very thread. So I'm sorry, but that claim is simply not true.

Stealth Netrunner is available from the very start and naturally it can't wipe out 6 guys all at once below level 10 like it can at level 12, but it has plenty of other tricks in the book until then to accomplish stealth in a more grounded way than what I've shown.

 

[Audi82]

Also, the argument that “it is still powerful” is not the point.

by the way It's not even true: try to kill a Militech Chimera ONLY with netrunning. LOL.

CDP ALWAYS nerf netrunners every time have the f urge to "balance" something...well, they are clearly not capable!
New hacking system is cr@p.

 

[Soylencer]

Because standing on a rooftop and dropping 9 enemies in 6 seconds with 4 button presses is not the encounter that the GM had in mind.

Signed, a former OP stealth runner.

Nevermind. I take it back, you can still do this and it's 180% easier than before. I allowed myself to be gonked by OP.

Hopefully OP learned how to use the new trees.

 

[Greeniewolf]

All of your attacks should start with Sonic Shock for "Stealth Netrunning".

There's also a mod on Nexus that removes the tracing.

Shouldn't have to rely on a mod to unbreak what should never have been broken.

 

[cammoking123]

Stealth netrunning is still perfectly viable. A lot of people are just struggling to adjust to not being able to nuke everything with short circuit. Before you unlock the blue rarity (or higher) version of sonic shock you have to be more creative with your stealth. I recommend using throwing knives early game. They're pretty overpowered.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Stealth netrunning is still perfectly viable.

I recommend using throwing knives early game.

 

[Crimsomrider]

I die a little inside every time I see someone suggesting to a Netrunner to use physical weapons. The mind is a Netrunner's weapon, not uncivilized knives and guns.

Don't want to alert enemies or get traced as a stealth Netrunner?

• T1 - Distract + Takedown
• T2 - Distract/Bait/Sonic Shock + Takedown
• T3 - Sonic Shock + [Any Combat Quickhack]. Go crazy.

Don't care about alerting enemies?

• T1 - Overheat
• T2 - [Any Covert/Control Quickhack] + Overheat or Contagion or Synapse or Short Circuit
• T3 - Use whichever on regular grunts and use [Any Covert/Control Quickhack] + [Any Combat quickhack] for tougher enemies

Want to play an all-around stealth Netrunner with tracing?

• T1 - Shadowrunner & Encription perks + takedowns are a must to reduce tracing
• T2 - Arasaka cyberdeck is the intended anti-tracing cyberdeck for stealthy all-around Netrunners
• T3 - Mind Wipe can be spammed constantly to reduce trace by 25%
• T5 - System Collapse also reduces trace by 25% or 100% if used on an enemy Netrunner

So many ways to play a pure Netrunner. I personally don't even carry a gun on me since 2.0, that's how obsolete weapons are to Netrunners.

 

[player1fanatic]

.....

 

[Guest 3847602]

Don't want to alert enemies or get traced as a stealth Netrunner?

• T1 - Distract + Takedown

Want to play an all-around stealth Netrunner with tracing?

• T1 - Shadowrunner & Encription perks + takedowns are a must to reduce tracing

I'm sure you're well aware of the fact that before 2.0 stealthy netrunners didn't have to perform takedowns. Short Circuit was untraceable and decent enough for low-level enemies in Watson.
In other words, you could play as pure netrunner (apart from scripted main story encounters) from start to finish. Just like you can choose to play as a pure mage (for example) in other RPGs and not be required to use fists, or daggers, or swords, or bows or whatever...