In fact all these dialogue lines are here to "roleplay" your V.
A "heartless" V could choose to pissed against Jackie, to ask to Evy who hied her in the hideout, to punch directly Fingers, to betray Panam for Saul, to not care about the fate of the Cloud's dolls, to kill Maiko... All is matter of how you see your V
I tried different Vs.
My first one is verry nice, the second is more a rebel and jester archetype, the third is the nija "vigilente" style and my last one is the cold mean b%@°3! !
In fact all these dialogue lines are here to "roleplay" your V.
A "heartless" V could choose to pissed against Jackie, to ask to Evy who hied her in the hideout, to punch directly Fingers, to betray Panam for Saul, to not care about the fate of the Cloud's dolls, to kill Maiko... All is matter of how you see your V
yeah, my military 'v' told him to keep his head in the game but I do think each time 'would my character say this' although there's one timed event where you can punch someone and if you let the timer run out you punch them anyway
Adrenaline...
V's affraid, on the nerves with his/her buddy diying, Arasaka is traking thme down to kill them... i think those are good reason to be a little bit triggered ! X'D
Still at that point the meaning of dialoge options in the first place is that the player can decide how the character respons to someone, but in the whole final heist elevator to delamain dialoge V acts as mean bi*** no matter what we select. Would have been nice to have the option to react nice to Jackie knowing that the friends time is running out. All we can choose from is reacting mean and reacting mean.
Sounds like it. Both of them have small snaps at each other. Remember the ride to the Knopeki plaza? V's to stay silent for long.
And I do it. Really, that one was just a life experience. Didn't prod it. Later I probed it and said yep, not the time.
Some things by V are involuntary for the player. I find them anti-team-morale. If you have any guilt talk leave it for later. If you are about to start blaming, do a reflection later. Dunno, that's how people should operate on teams. At least for a corpo V, Jackie is a pretty important friend. Such friends always get leniency beyond what a rando fixer would. Dex, for example, would have me bolt out of his car before he finished his little hypothetical questioning. Not my type. Not how I do business. And we know V patiently listened through it wetting pants thinking about the next huge gig. It would be nice to offer those choices, even if they mean kinda skipping the whole Johnny thing (which is rather unlikely, it is a too good story to be left to rot like that). But... should that be the case... my V wouldn't have trouble just circling through the NC and harassing all the gangs until the end of time.
V's mini snap at Johnny at the secret Sun ending is also un-me. Johnny will be in his share of horse manure, and had played his hands fairly. So ... that was uncalled for.
Why do all the dialogue options while in the relic heist mission have to be so negative?
Kind of bugs me that V is such a downer in the prologue mission for seemingly no apparent reason. Soon at you jump in the Delamain its all doom and gloom as if you suddenly just hate Jackie's existence. Don't know how you all feel about it but for me it comes off as very forced and unnatural.
That's your opinion, mine too so I don't choose to not say that at this moment. But it doesn't imply that is the case for every one
(Like with Dex when he's about to shoot on you, you can say "you're dead", which is highly stupid^^)
Sometimes when youre angry is keeping your mouth shut the best what you can do. in real life and even the games - thats the point of those time limited quotes
I actually quite liked the dialogue options. V might have been looking for legend status along with Jackie but it's normal to be stressed at his juvenile mood on such a serious operation. And the nuance introduced by not saying anything works great for me. CP77 deserved to have different arquetype Vs but it doesn't. The player can choose some nuances and this example is great for me. We get to understand Vs temperament better but choose how to act on it.
The Takemura example I agree makes no sense.
Why do all the dialogue options while in the relic heist mission have to be so negative?
Kind of bugs me that V is such a downer in the prologue mission for seemingly no apparent reason. Soon at you jump in the Delamain its all doom and gloom as if you suddenly just hate Jackie's existence. Don't know how you all feel about it but for me it comes off as very forced and unnatural.
I agree that some more response options could change the tone a bit, but I didn't really think much of it at the time.
I took it at its face value pretty much. Lets tally:
- they go on their biggest job yet.
- the loot is a very unique piece of chip which V is forced to slot in her head
- the heist goes horribly, horribly wrong.
- they klepped from Arasaka (which is the eqivalent of you robbing fort knox that has murderous security)
- Jackie is 'mortally' wounded and both of them know it (regardless of maybe wanting to not believe or litterally not believing it)
- T-Bug is already fried
- How 'friendly' will Dex be, considering he as fixer is linked to this utter failure.
- It rains... Again.
Okay, with exception of the last one, which I added as a sort off insult to injury type of way. I think you would have you adrenaline spike like crazy and chastise your partner-in-crime reacts as if they made it and walk away.
I take V's angryness in the sense of giving off as some form of exhaust for all her feeing and emotions, wether they are correct or misplaced.
I could even argue that Jackie knows exactly that V says many things in the moment which she does not truly mean, and tries to give a positive (albeit delusional) spin on it.
Now that I give it some more thought, I think the drama the scene is supposed to convey is actually rather accurate.
One caveat though: I dont recall the exact words used in those scenes, so maybe some words can be misrepresented from what I think is their intent.
Post automatically merged:
I went on a bit of a tangient with regard to post-"everything-goes-to-hell" part of this quest, but parts of still matter to the startup phase.
The knowledge of what they must steal and from who. That alone works heavily on nerves, and even though V and Jackie have experience as mercs, I consider this as very much a whole different level where their experience is again the equivalent of a shy child on stage.
The notion of everything that can go wrong etc...
The way I interpreted it is that Jackie is generally more upbeat and excited about the prospect of the heist than V is. The major leagues thing is really Jackie's dream and V's life (which goes to pot in the lifepath intros) ain't about much so you go along with his dream. But there are plenty of dialogue options pre-heist that express reservation about hitting the mercenary major leagues.
One such dialogue is with Claire when you ask what it would take to get a drink named after you. Claire says "snuff it. Die horribly. The more spectacular the better", to which V can reply sardonically "bit of a steep price to pay for a drink isn't it?". Jackie however doesn't seem to be phased by it. Its all just a laugh and if people remember you for some crazy thing you did, then that ain't a bad way to go.
Fast forward to the heist and you and Jackie are neck deep in a world of s**t and he has been shot. Jackie as always tries to see the humerous side while you have the option to say things that amount to "I knew this was a bad idea, this isn't funny". And V can spit some real barbs at Jackie but ultimately I think it is more stress, irritation and disappointment at yourself for allowing this situation to get as bad as it has.
And I think it made for a really emotional climax to the heist. Jackie dies after you say some pretty hurtful things about him. He doesn't seem to take it personally, but you never got the chance to say sorry anyway.
The dream of the major leagues dies with Jackie. The irony is once you wake up from the dream and start getting real - when its just about you surviving the next day, that vital impetus is what makes you a major league player.
I thought it was an odd conversation, but it's not unusual for people to get themselves into bad situations and then heap the blame on their friends. Particularly true of people who aren't very bright, and V definitely isn't overly blessed with mental capacity. I don't like the conversation though, because in spite of all my own personal flaws, V crapping on Jackie that way isn't one of them; so it creates a disconnect for me with the character. But like several people have said, it's possible just not to respond. I think that I figured that out by the time of my second play through, so that's just what I do now.
This has bothered me as a bit off since day one, but for me it starts when the meeting starts in Dex's booth. Jackie asks if the booth is soundproof, V is like "Jack..." which seems uncharacteristic at that point.
I can understand nerves and adrenaline causing both to get snippy, but it feels like we're missing something. From there it seems to move between being weirdly hostile, and the established dynamic which we saw a glimpse of during the Dorsett rescue as the heist begins.
When Jackie initially brings up the job outside V's building, V can choose to be sarcastic about Fixers and the prospect of working with Dex. A few little lines would've allowed us to roleplay our V to be doing the job, but think it's a bad idea better. I do that internally anyway, but like I said, it feels like the script is missing an exchange somewhere.
I'm normally fine with the "happy now Jackie?" line but mainly because I usually play corpo V who tells him in the Delemain cab that this isn't some party - it's Arasaka (the threat of which she understands all too well) - so it matched up very neatly.
But then I played as a street-kid V and I could play the Delemain scene way different and BOTH of them were like, "YEEEEAHHHH BIG LEAGUES BABYYYY". So when the "Happy now Jackie?" line came up, it felt completely mismatched :/
That's really the only bit that should've had an alternative line dependant on the cab talk.
It's a nitpicky thing, but still a small shame because the game already does a surprising amount of hidden alternate dialogues dependant on previous conditions elsewhere in the game. E.g. the whole Mikoshi dialogue with Johnny, or the smoking scene after you save Evelyn, etc..
I wanted to beat V with a crowbar and gouge out his kiroshi optic with dirty rusted spoon. Stfu V!! I'm sick of your shhh! The mans had a rough life and is excited about the prospect of turning his life around. I'd imagine V would be excited too. It's not like its effecting the way he behaves in the mission. V can be a real ass in this scene. I always have to tell him to forget and ignore the attitude promps.
Then we get a dying Jackie and V can potentially snap on his dying friend again. Someone better get V outta here! I'm gonna feed this man two gorilla arms and shove a fortified ankle where the sun don't shine!! I managed to make due with what we have... minimize damage cause these interactions were a shhh show and a half. I need a drink after that cab ride to the motel... and a funeral to attend...
I belive that dialogue was a leftover they forgot from the storyline they had before, I don't think they had Jackie's death planned for that moment. Makes no sense the rage/malding on Jackie while he was clearly already badly hurted and dying in the car. People say it's cause the nerves but you don't start raging at someone who is clearly dying and struggle to even breath like that unless you hate them lol
V being really strrssed and lashing out makes sense, but as others have pointed out, he also didn't really say no.
The biggest issue is the buildup to the quest itself. My first meeting with Dex made me think, "He's definitely gonna stab me in the back." You sort of get a line to imply it's fishy, but V never really says it out right.
Personally, I'd be fine with plot railroading V into the job, but at least let V gripe about it every step of the way.
Even though Dex asking for them is sketchy as hell, V never really questions why. Victor even warns you that Dex is potentially dangerous, and nothing ever comes from that line.
The way I interpreted it is that Jackie is generally more upbeat and excited about the prospect of the heist than V is. The major leagues thing is really Jackie's dream and V's life (which goes to pot in the lifepath intros) ain't about much so you go along with his dream. But there are plenty of dialogue options pre-heist that express reservation about hitting the mercenary major leagues.
One such dialogue is with Claire when you ask what it would take to get a drink named after you. Claire says "snuff it. Die horribly. The more spectacular the better", to which V can reply sardonically "bit of a steep price to pay for a drink isn't it?". Jackie however doesn't seem to be phased by it. Its all just a laugh and if people remember you for some crazy thing you did, then that ain't a bad way to go.
Fast forward to the heist and you and Jackie are neck deep in a world of s**t and he has been shot. Jackie as always tries to see the humerous side while you have the option to say things that amount to "I knew this was a bad idea, this isn't funny". And V can spit some real barbs at Jackie but ultimately I think it is more stress, irritation and disappointment at yourself for allowing this situation to get as bad as it has.
And I think it made for a really emotional climax to the heist. Jackie dies after you say some pretty hurtful things about him. He doesn't seem to take it personally, but you never got the chance to say sorry anyway.
The dream of the major leagues dies with Jackie. The irony is once you wake up from the dream and start getting real - when its just about you surviving the next day, that vital impetus is what makes you a major league player.
I don't necessarily agree with the whole post, considering that there's a lot of options for the player during The Heist to not say hurtful things to Jackie. I'm pretty sure all the dialogue options have one that shows V cares about Jackie more than the rest, while the other one is the opposite.
- Jackie you're bleeding!
VS
- What about the relic?!
- Think this is funny?!
VS
- Save your strength, Jackie.
There's even a situation where you have two mean options, "Cause you say so?!" and "Ask T-Bug." but there is a timer and the player has the choice to not say anything.
- We'll get the best jobs from now on! (which isn't necessarily mean)
VS
- Think about Misty and everyone you love!
Etc. I may have forgot a few but my point is V during the Heist can still stay calm and not say anything too bad to Jackie despite the severe situation. When T-Bug dies, she says "Fucking major leagues, happy now Jackie?" but unfortunately this one is automatic and not a dialogue option.
So in the end, I guess the climax as you say can be different for people. Losing Jackie after being really mean and having regrets, or just loving and caring about Jackie and losing him.
