But I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that a player should play a quest for the quest itself, but I'm not saying that the level up gameplay gimmick should be cut from the game.
But I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that a player should play a quest for the quest itself, but I'm not saying that the level up gameplay gimmick should be cut from the game.
Again its not only about xp but about freedom too. Checking quest list every time to check quest levels & then try to follow those quest as per game suggesting is taking my freedom to play the game in my way which indirectly killing my enjoyment. May be you are now going to say then don't check the quest list & play it blindly but then again its there & I know it so my human nature not allows me to neglect that thing completely so I think its much better thing if they fix the xp for all quest by re-balancing the game properly.
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And I'm telling you that what your saying isn't true for everyone and certainly not for me. Questing is about a means to an end to advance. The ONLY reason I play an RPG is to advance. I want to get more skills, more loot, more abilities. I've played many games when the storyline isn't great but the character building was awesome and I'm good with that. So when you state I shouldn't do the quest for exp I'm trying to explain to you that's not how YOU play and that's fine, but I play to advance and to be arbitrarily held back isn't game breaking but it's damn annoying.
It'd be nice if there were an option to remove levels/leveling entirely, and put progression toward skills/abilities unlocks, only.
A level-less game would probably mean:
- no issue w/ 'over leveling' (while still having the potential of being 'overpowered' w/ the proper 'build' and/or gear setup)
- ideally a less MMO-y feel (which is kinda the case in parts of the game: e.g., that part near Oxenfurt has Lvl 30 enemies, that part of Velen has Lvl 10 enemies, etc.; Level 30 wolves/drowners/whatever being 'more powerful' than their Level 5 counterparts for no apparent reason other than being in a different 'zone' in the game)
- armor & weapons would hopefully feel less likely to be 'trash' (e.g., the sword & armour you start with could, potentially, last you the whole game...which, thematically, makes sense), with gear 'progression' via drops producing only marginal improvements.
- removing the annoyances regarding level-restricted content (which always felt game-y and forced, IMHO)
I'm really inclined to think that removing the traditional level-based progression would suit the game better, esp. w/ the whole more 'mature', 'grim' and 'dark fantasy' setting.
It's not that I don't enjoy the traditional progression mechanics/model (I mean, I have Diablo 3 running in the background while typing this lol), but I just don't think it suits The Witcher 3.
It would be nice to have as an optional game mode that could be toggled.
Just my two cents and all that.
A level-less game would probably mean:
- no issue w/ 'over leveling' (while still having the potential of being 'overpowered' w/ the proper 'build' and/or gear setup)
- ideally a less MMO-y feel (which is kinda the case in parts of the game: e.g., that part near Oxenfurt has Lvl 30 enemies, that part of Velen has Lvl 10 enemies, etc.; Level 30 wolves/drowners/whatever being 'more powerful' than their Level 5 counterparts for no apparent reason other than being in a different 'zone' in the game)
- armor & weapons would hopefully feel less likely to be 'trash' (e.g., the sword & armour you start with could, potentially, last you the whole game...which, thematically, makes sense), with gear 'progression' via drops producing only marginal improvements.
- removing the annoyances regarding level-restricted content (which always felt game-y and forced, IMHO)
I'm really inclined to think that removing the traditional level-based progression would suit the game better, esp. w/ the whole more 'mature', 'grim' and 'dark fantasy' setting.
It's not that I don't enjoy the traditional progression mechanics/model (I mean, I have Diablo 3 running in the background while typing this lol), but I just don't think it suits The Witcher 3.
It would be nice to have as an optional game mode that could be toggled.
Just my two cents and all that.
& then how you going to restrict the player to use high level armors ? I mean if there is no leveling system for witcher & while roaming I got high level armor or weapon then its possible for me to use it as no leveling system means no level restriction.. Right ?? That's what you want to suggest ?
Well, if there are no levels...then there'd be no level restrictions nor will there be 'high level' armor or weapons.
As I said, I'd prefer if weapons/armor/gear/loot you acquire beyond the gear you start with should, at best, only provide minimal improvements (e.g., the best sword should be more something like a +5 or +10 dmg., instead of +300 dmg), esp. in terms of direct damage output or increased hit points.
Gear 'progression' emphasis should be on the other stats/bonuses, I guess (e.g., sign-related bonuses, bonuses against specific monsters/enemies, other features...just not damage output/increased hit points, per se).
A simpler way to see it would be that 'leveling up' just unlocks more skills/abilities (via the existing skill point system), but not adding to the amount of hit point damage you deal, nor increasing your hit points.
Sadly, that move would still require a good amount of work as you'd have to 'remove' the levels of everything else in the game, but would be, IMHO, better and less jarring (going back to the example of wolves/bandits/monsters of the same variety becoming stronger simply because they're in a different 'zone' w/ an arbitrarily set higher level)
Why this always comes down to EXP rewarded? EXP is not a main problem with overleveled quests, but difficulty is. If you choose to completely ignore recommended levels and just explore the world, you will come to a point where half of the quests will be overleveled and will provide zero challenge. So, no EXP, no money, no equipment, no challenge - nothing, but a story. Which is excellent and I absolutely love it, but I also love the challenge. And others love EXP and progression (and yes, RPG is about progression, leveling up and getting better equipment).
If you go main story only, there is no way you'd possibly be underleveled, as EXP reward for those quests is huge. So, EXP wise there is no reason to go for side quests. And if you're roleplaying, game very quickly becomes too easy, as by doing all the side quests and exploring the world you gain EXP very quickly. And then, suddenly, tons of quests go gray and you stop having fun both because of low challenge and reward (any kind of reward, not just EXP).
TW3 is an action RPG. Geralt progression is revolving around combat. This means that interesting and challenging combat is a part of the game as much as the story. There are so many interesting skills and possibilities (hell, you can deflect arrows with Aard!), but they quickly become useless, as lot of quests and enemies become too underleveled for Geralt, so he doesn't need to use anything special to deal with them. Fights, even with contract monsters, quickly turn into boring routine and after Geralt reaches about level 18, he becomes a God, compared to remaining enemies. This, and not EXP, is my main problem with current leveling system.
If you go main story only, there is no way you'd possibly be underleveled, as EXP reward for those quests is huge. So, EXP wise there is no reason to go for side quests. And if you're roleplaying, game very quickly becomes too easy, as by doing all the side quests and exploring the world you gain EXP very quickly. And then, suddenly, tons of quests go gray and you stop having fun both because of low challenge and reward (any kind of reward, not just EXP).
TW3 is an action RPG. Geralt progression is revolving around combat. This means that interesting and challenging combat is a part of the game as much as the story. There are so many interesting skills and possibilities (hell, you can deflect arrows with Aard!), but they quickly become useless, as lot of quests and enemies become too underleveled for Geralt, so he doesn't need to use anything special to deal with them. Fights, even with contract monsters, quickly turn into boring routine and after Geralt reaches about level 18, he becomes a God, compared to remaining enemies. This, and not EXP, is my main problem with current leveling system.
But action/RPG doesn't mean that is an action with RPG elements. It only means that is an RPG with an action combat, or in other words, a combat where you take the direct control of your character.
If low quest scale automatically to your level, for the sake of the challange, you kill the sense of progression.
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Then, what it will be a possible fix?
Full XP for every quest?
And how then will be a possible balancement for the enemy?
You know what? I'm proposing a way to rebalance the quests, in order to be consistent with the main quest progression and at the same time reducing the problem you encountered (which I think will be a good compromise) and you are just ignoring that, with a blind focus on the same subject.
Do you play Planescape Torment for the progression?
Nope. Because leveling up is not about HP and damage bonuses only, it also gives you new skills and new combat options. Because all the monsters are different, have different resistance type and different tactics. Shame that you can feel it only on hardest difficulty levels up to about level 8-10. It is not a progression, when you can kill the enemy with one swing of the sword. But when you get an option to deflect an arrow back to the archer or to focus your Igni burst it is. New options, new combat decisions, new ways to deal with your problems. Had CDPR emphasized more on that, we'd get a very interesting combat system. But it could prove too complex for those who don't like this kind of difficulty. Anyway, since the game already has four difficulty levels, it could be balanced around those, leaving complex mechanics for hardest difficulties and sword swinging for the Story Only.
For memory progression.
Despite my undying love for PST, it's not the open world game. There is a lot of exploring, but it's as much about exploring yourself as it is about exploring the world. And it's not an action RPG, as Nameless can choose from variety of non-combat stats and skills.---------- Updated at 06:47 PM ----------
It was already answered earlier in this topic: fixed EXP for quests to still give players their reward, but non-linear level EXP progression.
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I'm not saying you are wrong. And actually I agree with you, levelling up should not increase the stats, those should be related only to the skills you choose and on your build.
But...in order to do what you are suggesting, it would be needed a completely revamp of the combat system, that it should resamble Platinum games combat, with different combos and shit that you unlock when you level up. While the combat now resamble much more an hack'n slash.
So...I partially agree with you, but I just don't think that your solution is...practical. Not at this stage, at least.
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For memory progression.
But at the same time, the no level scaling as soft gate is necessary to put more focus in the main quest.
I do understand it. Really. If CDPR went this way, they would probably never shipped the game in time. But the thing is that everything I mentioned is already in game, it's not a completely different system that needs to be implemented from scratch. It's just that it needs balancing, because now damage and level difference mean more than skills, both of player and Geralt. Throw potions and oils into this mix and you'll get combat system full of strategic decisions. For me this doesn't look like "Platinum games combat" approach.
Again, PST is much less about combat than TW3. If we take combat system out of TW3, no EXP and levels will be needed at all, as storyline and quest options are not affected by Geralt's build at all (with the exception of axii, but it acts like a shortcut to get to the objective quicker).
Sure, there are lots of TW3 players out there and everyone has their own definition of fun and balance. And CDPR can't possibly make everyone happy. But my goal here is to provide a diversity of opinion, as the game has many rough edges waiting to be smoothed out. Eventually, they'd have to do something about leveling and difficulty curve. I just hope that by emphasizing on the problem and giving out different views we can speed things up a bit.
hahaha man I am a gamer not a developer. I can ask for better game play as I paid for the game so giving us better game with good balance & features is developers work I think as even for that they are going to get good reviews & awards too. I am not saying developers are doing any thing purposely but improving the game is there duty not mine. As you saw 1.07 are going to add storage / good inventory UI & other good thinks which they not decided previously but due to gamers demand now we have it.
So giving suggestion is our duty. Ya many are providing solution too as well I am not saying they have to listen to every suggestion gamers are asking for but if there is a majority on some thing then I think they should considered it at least.
As I said I too don't have any problem with XP as I am still on White Orchard only waiting for 1.07 patch so I even don't know about further game but I really want to enjoy this open world game with tension free mind & I want to focus more on game & game decisions not on below points...
1] In what order should i complete the quests so that quests are not going to out of my lvl ?
2] If I complete this quest which quest is going to out of my lvl. ?
3] What xp points this quests is going to give me & what if I go over level for other quests after completing this quest ?
For over level quest still there is a questions...
1] What xp should this quest is rewarding if I complete it in suggested lvl ?
2] Is there any other reward with this quests which I don't get or just a xp ?
3] Should I do grayed out quests or not as they are only going to give 5 xp ?
So lots of unwanted tension is there & may be many are not going to complete those grayed out quests due to low xp so whats the point of adding those quests in game ??
You are already completed the game that's why you are telling me that there is a enough xp & geralt going to get proper lvl but those who's not yet finish the game or going to buy the game they don't have this info so they are going to play the game in this above risks.
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I just found another thread where they are talking about this..
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march of 1999 Everquest came out. December of 1999 Planescape came out. Honestly I never played it as I was wrapped up in EQ for the next five or so years... Focusing on advancing.
Ok as you ask so I have some idea not sure how good it is but still want to share
I think they should divide the leveling system in two. I mean one with Main quest xp & 1 with side quest xp so main quests xp level going to improve Geralt vitality & other characteristics as well its only going to allow us to use high level armor / weapons etc. & Side quest xp is going to help us to build our skill tree or something like that...
So its going to help developers to decide what fix xp should side quests are going to give so that we can unlock only needed abilities as developers are already knows how many side quest are there in particular area so if White Orchard is having 50 side quests then may be we are going to get total 10abilitiy points to unlock the skills or more/less so that side quest also going to have some importance & every one going to complete it.
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I like the below reversed xp level suggestion more...
This is just a example I am giving may be they can use main quests xp level system for skills & side quest xp system for Geralt characteristics & armor / weapons requirement levels so anything but I think its going to give more meaning to every quest.
If they use main quests xp level system for skills then I think adding more skills to use high level armor / weapons is possible so that if some one don't want to play side quests still they can enjoy all armor & weapons.
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So finally the idea is....
Main quest xp system - Needs to develop character & skills tree
Side quests xp system - Needs to wear high level armor & weapons & to unlock other items
If some one don't want to play side quests then add new skills like Armor 1] 1-10 lvl 2] 10-20 3] 21-30 4] 31-40 5] 41-50 same for weapons & this skills only going to unlock at some point say 1st skill going to unlock when Geralt is going to reach lvl 10 2nd on 20 & so on
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I don't know why but now I really like my idea
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I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has been brought up already.
I quite like the changes implemented in the Enhanced Better Combat mod. It's not complicated either, basically the author slowed the XP curve and removed the tier requirements for skills, while obviously rebalancing skills as to not become too OP. The game remains challenging throughout, it opens up a variety of builds and you don't have to worry too much about over leveling quests.
If you're interested, check it out: http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/212/?
I quite like the changes implemented in the Enhanced Better Combat mod. It's not complicated either, basically the author slowed the XP curve and removed the tier requirements for skills, while obviously rebalancing skills as to not become too OP. The game remains challenging throughout, it opens up a variety of builds and you don't have to worry too much about over leveling quests.
If you're interested, check it out: http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/212/?
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About 70 lvl rats someone mentioned somewhere.
So, my Geralt is level 25 again. And I have no objections over random enemies being easy. Yes I feel good killing like 5 drowners with one swing of the sword (apart from the fact that I'm still using starting armor and level 1 cat swords and that's on a hard difficulty). This is exactly the sense of achievement that was mentioned in defense of fixed levels system. Let random enemies have fixed levels, let treasure guards have fixed levels, that's OK. But what I'm not happy with, again, is that about 80% of all the quests in Skellige are easy, because they're gray for my Geralt. This shouldn't happen, IMO.
So, my Geralt is level 25 again. And I have no objections over random enemies being easy. Yes I feel good killing like 5 drowners with one swing of the sword (apart from the fact that I'm still using starting armor and level 1 cat swords and that's on a hard difficulty). This is exactly the sense of achievement that was mentioned in defense of fixed levels system. Let random enemies have fixed levels, let treasure guards have fixed levels, that's OK. But what I'm not happy with, again, is that about 80% of all the quests in Skellige are easy, because they're gray for my Geralt. This shouldn't happen, IMO.
I have to wait a lot of time since I bought the game because the release date was delayed. Then I have to stop playing because the xp bug is terrible and cd projeckt can't solve it or it seems. This is truly pathetic that a brilliant game like this have this kind of bugs.I have no words to say what I think about this.
Yes, it truly is a terrible syste. They need to add another 30% or 40% needed for every level. That would even it out. Also, make the monsters level with Geralt so that we can have a decent fight.
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I did not like that mod.
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I did not like that mod.
Carloz1492 XP bug is not terrible and you're depriving yourself of a truly amazing game while waiting for it to be fixed. It is fairly easy to reach level 35 by the end of the game, gray quests or not.
It is fairly easy to reach level 35 by the end of the game, gray quests or not.How to level up after lv 36? (Without cheats) I only win 1 xp, i need 2000 enemy's kills to level up (no way)
I only ask because I actually have diagrams for weapons and armor that require, like, level 46...
The game needs enemy's lv 35+ ~ 40+ to level up!
I only ask because I actually have diagrams for weapons and armor that require, like, level 46...
The game needs enemy's lv 35+ ~ 40+ to level up!