FPP/TPP Perspective Thread OPEN. Be NICE.

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't think we've heard enough to make a call on 3 or 6.

Everything said about 3 has been the opposite of that statement. So far there's been nothing "advanced" about it, and it seems quite detached from the PnP. 6 is just a statement, "We're here to kick ass!", but based on 3 (for example).... I dunno about setting standards (so far).

If three character classes is a "varied selection", then ok. There's more than 2 so it might just be a... "selection". If i had even had 4 or 5...

I'm kind of afraid to say this, but it all points (a bit too much, if you ask me) towards Witcher 3 again... There were basically three types of Geralts you could make (with a mix and match option) - figher (2 types), alchemist, signs, now you have figher (2 types), netrunner, techie.

A tiger can't get away from it's stripes (it seems). Not even when fucking a lion...

I'm eagerly waiting to be proven wrong... as always.

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2018

I'm waiting for it too.

Yeah, true. Still hoping it's in the works though.

* Keeps praying. *

As am I.

There was a time when it seemed like it could potentially be the one thing to put this game up-high where others had not gone yet, but now... fingers crossed, hoping for the best, but expecting nothing.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Going WAY back:

2012 Announcement Conference, 5:33 into video -

Spoiler: relevant image

View attachment 10985455

As long as it lines up with that, I'll say it's promise lived up to. Now of course some phrases such as "based on," "mature," "realistic," "gripping," "gigantic," and "exceptional" are up for interpretation ... but this is what "the promise" was.

Well it's kind of subject to interpretation, as "Based on Pen & Paper" still need to be showed (but can very well be there, it just means that the final game is different than the demo) and I suppose "varied selection of" (different character classes) is really there for someone considering "3" to be "varied".

I will also mention that "mixed TPP/FPP" is ambiguous, especially given that this wasn't said at some promotional event, but a technical conference. Strictly speaking, a game with FPP supplemented by TPP in some cutscenes, while driving and in a photomode IS "mixed TPP/FPP."

Well, taxes and duties...

 

[Rawls]

Well, taxes and duties...

The danger of making assumptions and reading too much into 14 characters on a powerpoint slide at a technical conference on Red Engine 3. I'm guilty of having expectations too based on limited info (including on this very topic, see - https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...racter-perspective.27189/page-41#post-9364161), but you can't get too upset when things don't pan out the way you thought they would.

 

[Snowflakez]

Its perfectly reasonable to think "Mixed FPP/TPP" means the option of both FPP or TPP.

We don't need to bend over backwards to retroactively justify marketing statements. It's OK to say "Yeah, it may have been intended at one point, but not anymore" and leave it at that.

It's OK to put some of the responsibility on CDPR. We don't need to shift all of the blame as far as expectations go to the fans. Some of it? Sure. Not all. The game has changed. I've been around since the start and I remember the development blog posts (Which are now removed, I believe?) going over their goals for the game. I remember the early interviews talking about a translator chip, and other mechanics they either had in the game or wanted to have in the game.

Two movies, one screen. Try to see the other movie.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Its perfectly reasonable to think "Mixed FPP/TPP" means the option of both FPP or TPP.

It’s not only ”reasonable”, it’s logical far past anything else.

 

[EngryEngineer]

We don't need to bend over backwards to retroactively justify marketing statements.

A slide from a tech conference is hardly a marketing statement. It may be reasonable to assume that means mixed TPP/FPP in the overall gameplay, but is it really reasonable to assume that a bullet point from a power point slide from the first year of development that wasn't officially disseminated to the public is a public promise of a delivered feature? Making this assumption is a choice, a choice that can result in no gain for the chooser, only dissatisfaction or lack of dissatisfaction. I just can't understand why you would invest yourself in a lose-draw scenario. This is of course assuming that the argument is actually I expected x because of y, and not I really want x and will find anything I can to support that in order to establish a sense of obligation.

 

[Snowflakez]

A slide from a tech conference is hardly a marketing statement. It may be reasonable to assume that means mixed TPP/FPP in the overall gameplay, but is it really reasonable to assume that a bullet point from a power point slide from the first year of development that wasn't officially disseminated to the public is a public promise of a delivered feature? Making this assumption is a choice, a choice that can result in no gain for the chooser, only dissatisfaction or lack of dissatisfaction. I just can't understand why you would invest yourself in a lose-draw scenario. This is of course assuming that the argument is actually I expected x because of y, and not I really want x and will find anything I can to support that in order to establish a sense of obligation.

It's public information about the game, available to gamers. Yes, absolutely it was a marketing statement. It's information about the game, the venue does not matter. They could have said it inside of a McDonalds bathroom and I would say the same.

We cannot put all the responsibility on fans and say "well, they should've somehow known Mixed FPP/TPP meant FPP for everything except cars and cutscenes." That's nonsense.

Also, saying "X years ago" really doesn't matter. I'm not referring to fans that are just now learning about the game, digging up years-old words and then holding CDPR accountable for them.

I'm referring to people who have been here since the start, and then were told the game was something different. They had reason -- at that point in time -- to be disappointed.

But again, people who are just now seeking ammunition for their anti-FPP arguments? That's another story, and not a group of folks I'm interested in defending.

EDIT: Also, I already said this but I'll say it again, I'm not even in that group of people. I don't care much whether the game is FPP or TPP at this point, and I was only ever slightly crestfallen. I'm playing hardcore devil's advocate here.

 

[Rawls]

Its perfectly reasonable to think "Mixed FPP/TPP" means the option of both FPP or TPP.

I agree with you, but I also think it would be reasonable to read it mostly FPP with some TPP, or mostly TPP with some FPP (which I actually did read it as originally since TPP is before FPP). It's an inherently ambiguous statement. IMO it is on those of us trying to read tea-leafs to come to terms with our own incorrect assumptions. All three readings (and several others) are perfectly reasonable.

 

[lelxrv]

But will it have 200 endings?

I think, only "varied selection of character classes" is something when they didn't keep their promise. 3 main classes is hardly varied. Deep RPG system - we don't have enough information to make full judgement. Mix of TPP and FPP - it's still a mix, regardless of proportions.

 

[Snowflakez]

I agree with you, but I also think it would be reasonable to read it mostly FPP with some TPP, or mostly TPP with some FPP (which I actually did read it as originally since TPP is before FPP). It's an inherently ambiguous statement. IMO it is on those of us trying to read tea-leafs to come to terms with our own incorrect assumptions. All three readings (and several others) are perfectly reasonable.

You aren't wrong.

 

[Jh4sterRSA]

Hi All...a special shout out to the guys at CD project RED, big fan.
Just goes to show that your games reach all countries and walks of life.

That being said, this is about Cyberpunk 2077 and the issue around the the 3rd person view, or rather the lack their off seeing as there is no option for this.
I myself am a 3rd person gamer and do not like the 1st person thing at all. So since the early days of the announcements there was no clarity around this, the GUYS @ CD Project Red initially said that this would be both a 1st and 3rd Person RPG game. So now after all the wait and fuss finally we now know that there will be no option for 3rd person at all (and certain aspects of the game such as driving or character customization does not count please....)

What I don't understand is the whole hype then, the trailers look amazing and got the whole game world/community abuzz but at the end of the day the game experience is nothing like the trailers. Sorry but I am a die hard/hardcore 3rd person gamer and what you guys don't seem to realize is so is 50% of the gaming enthusiasts if not more, which just shows that the people at the end of the day buying not only your games but into your brand voices and opinion have not been taken into account in any sense.

look we've all heard the spin off stories now that the immersive world and and and etc........ are the reasons why you choose to stick with the 1st person view. Honestly if it was truly the case why not do this in VR to get the full and best experience.
In closing at the end of the day you guys decide and call the shots and there is not much we can do about it, we as a whole have voiced our concerns and that is after all, all that we can do.

Cyberpunk was so sought after and eagerly awaited, but unfortunately not one of the games that I will be playing after all due to this 1 small issue. Might seem stupid and insignificant to you but just remember there are a couple of million people out there that feel exactly the same as me....food for thought.

thanks and kind regards

James

 

[Sild]

I myself am a 3rd person gamer and do not like the 1st person thing at all.

Sorry but I am a die hard/hardcore 3rd person gamer

This makes 0 sense to me. But hey.. To each their own.

 

[Suhiira]

This makes 0 sense to me. But hey.. To each their own.

Some people love chocolate, some hate it.
We each have our own tastes that most other people can't even begin to understand.

 

[Sild]

Some people love chocolate, some hate it.
We each have our own tastes that most other people can't even begin to understand.

Sure, but that kind of rigidness can often keep you from trying and enjoying new things. Only i know how many times something seemed unappealing and through some conjuncture i ended up giving it a try and liking/loving it. A more specific example was when i went to the cinema with a couple of friends without any of us knowing what we were going to watch.. turns out it was a black and white movie, like from the 50'.. almost walked out.. thank god i didn't, it became my favorite comedy movie ever, can you guess which movie it was?

There are born tastes, and acquired ones, i rekon.

 

[Nikola_Nesic]

Yeah taste can be acquired, but some time you just don't like some things, and you don't want to try that things.

Example i don't like to eat any intestine or internal organs from pig, sheep..... i just don't like that, i don't want to try it, so if he don't like 1st person and like 3rd person for him playing in 1st person would not be fun and enjoy.

I also love 3rd person much more then 1st person, i can play in 1st person, but all the fun and enjoyment will be lowered by 80%, and all this also depend if game is good.

Not sure why people don't want to accept that many don't like 1st person.

 

[Sardukhar]

Not sure why people don't want to accept that many don't like 1st person.

This one is easy.

1. People often lie or colour their statements more dramatically to make a point or get what we want. "Cyberpunk 2077 is Far Cry only in a City!" springs to mind. Kind of over the top. Very human, but also lacking in accuracy.

2. Because we want you to love what we love - it makes us feel better about our choices -and- we think you'd like it if you tried it, Sam I Am.

3. We like you and want you to play Cyberpunk 2077 for you - so that you may have fun. Because you seem enthusiastic, engaged and it would be a shame if you didn't enjoy yourself as much as possible.

 

[SigilFey]

Yeah taste can be acquired, but some time you just don't like some things, and you don't want to try that things.

Example i don't like to eat any intestine or internal organs from pig, sheep..... i just don't like that, i don't want to try it, so if he don't like 1st person and like 3rd person for him playing in 1st person would not be fun and enjoy.

I also love 3rd person much more then 1st person, i can play in 1st person, but all the fun and enjoyment will be lowered by 80%, and all this also depend if game is good.

Not sure why people don't want to accept that many don't like 1st person.

This one is easy.

1. People often lie or colour their statements more dramatically to make a point or get what we want. "Cyberpunk 2077 is Far Cry only in a City!" springs to mind. Kind of over the top. Very human, but also lacking in accuracy.

2. Because we want you to love what we love - it makes us feel better about our choices -and- we think you'd like it if you tried it, Sam I Am.

3. We like you and want you to play Cyberpunk 2077 for you - so that you may have fun. Because you seem enthusiastic, engaged and it would be a shame if you didn't enjoy yourself as much as possible.

I don't think that most people have an issue with those who don't like something. This is a forum -- it's here to discuss things. Naturally, arguments will arise, and that's the whole point.

As for people being closed off to the idea or refusing even to try it, I'd have to agree that it's foolish to deny oneself an experience because one assumes it will be unpleasant. I'll say again that platformers are one of my least favorite game styles. I normally can't stand them. However, Salt and Sanctuary, Terraria, Dust, Prince of Persia, and Commander Keen are some of my favorite games.

Good games transcend their mechanics. Obviously, the future is unwritten, but I think CP2077 has a great chance of being something legendary. Why I think this is because of what I can observe about the history of the company. So far:

a.) They were ambitious. Perhaps, a little too ambitious to start. TW1 was great, but it's fair to say that it has its share of issues.

b.) They've never fallen into a rut. Looking at TW1, TW2, TW3, Gwent, and Cyberpunk -- there's no cut-and-paste going on. Each title was a totally unique vision unto itself. That speaks of consistent passion and energy being put into it.

c.) I think TW3 was a huge learning experience for CDPR. Everything I find speaks of the production being really challenging, but they still managed to pull off the final result. They obviously persevered when others may have decided it wasn't worth it. I think there's a much more seasoned understanding of how to manage such a gargantuan undertaking this time.

d.) They're still ambitious and still visionary. Therefore, if CDPR says that FPP is critical to the experience they're creating, I'm willing to believe it without hesitation.

But, it's up to each player in the end.

 

[SystemShock7]

As for people being closed off to the idea or refusing even to try it, I'd have to agree that it's foolish to deny oneself an experience because one assumes it will be unpleasant.

There is no significant variation in 1st person from game to game. If one doesn't like the blinders-on feeling, floating hands, guns on one's field of view 100% of the time and shooting at an angle, etc. etc. etc., the games subject matter doesn't matter much, because the game experience will be unpleasant if one has to play it through those conditions.

As the nickname implies, System Shock is my favorite game of all time, and it was revolutionary when it was released 25 years ago, but today, I wouldn't be able to play it. I think the last 1st person game I played that I enjoyed was Deus Ex, but even then, the blinders-on feeling had started to bother me.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

As for people being closed off to the idea or refusing even to try it, I'd have to agree that it's foolish to deny oneself an experience because one assumes it will be unpleasant.

Well, only if you talk about videogames, cause there is a whole lot of things outside of videogames that I would not try at all even if some people say it's good.
First example that comes to my mind: same sex sex while being heterosexual: I won't try it.

 

[CyberBrett]

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