Ok. You (just about everyone here) seem to be very fond of how things are being handled, and I don’t seem to be able to get my point through. I’ll let you get back on topic now.
I think I +1 some of your posts. Not all, but some. I think. Peace.
Wait, where did you hear any of this?
As I understand it, Sasquatch is just a normal character but beefier because of the juice she has, and she has the ability to hack you obviously, and wields a big hammer.
Never heard anything about choreographed patterns to dodge, cavetroll act, or platforming mechanics.
And don't worry. I understand your point and agree with it.
The only "disagreement" we have is that I don't see a discrepancy between what you are asking for, and what the Sasquatch fight offers. Granted, I have not read every written account of the demo and the ones I did read were a while ago, so it's very possible I missed some of these details.
EDIT: For the record, the boss fight we saw in the demo was definitely not my ideal encounter. I don't like that it was apparently forced. However, they made a lot of changes to the game regarding freedom of gameplay between last year's demo and today, so I believe if that fight exists at all, you will be able to bypass it or handle it differently.
The player was described dodging the hammer blows (cavetroll) similiarly to how Royces attacks were dodged (coreography) and S was described to have a glowing ”weak spot” just like Royce (arcade platformer bossfight).
The whole hammer thing is dubious. But I suppose it’s not a ”good” boss fight if you could just shoot her from a distance.
Ah, I get you. I will need to see the bossfight for myself before I can say for sure, but I understand what you mean now.
I've read that the animals had cyberware letting them strafe very fast towards you to attack you from close range. I'd imagine sasquatch doing the same so she is very fast in staying close. I mean, it can't be that stupid to stay far with an hammer hitting air. The arena could be very small as well so it forces you to stay close to sasquatch. I mean, CDPR has an encounter designer...
I don't think it's fair to judge it without having seen that fight at all. We can believe journalists about animations' quality, but no one has said anything bad about the boss fight itself. It doesn't mean it's good, but we'll see it in 2 months. The only disappointment is that it sounds very similar to royce (first you destroy the weak point on the back, then you can kill the boss in both cases) but I don't want to believe all bosses will be the same. CDPR could've shown another one to be honest, somethign completely different, but maybe it's better if they don't spoil too many things.
This has been my main point of contention against typical FPS tropes all along.
I see many MANY of them being included into CP2077 and, since they're incompatible, tropes you'd expect in an RPG ignored.
Using levels, hitpoints, and other such nonsense doesn't make a game an RPG, they're simply mechanics. But the stuff mentioned by @kofeiiniturpa are more then just game mechanics, they're the very basis of the standard shooter. Like any sidescroller or platformer these games reward the player for their execution of reflex and precision based tasks. The "character" is merely an avatar used to display location relative to the environment.
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I really hope CDProjektRed just makes the game they want to make. Everybody in this thread, chill!
It's gonna be awesome! 
I really do appreciate your thoughts, kofeiiniturpa, really. I'm a fan of dissent and I think it's an important part of any type of discourse. It's just your suggestions to make things "better" isn't quite hitting home with me. I'm trying to find the objectivity in your criticism and I'm struggling to see it.
You've pointed out various points about the combat design, but have failed to articulate why they are essentially bad. If this is purely a rant to state your personal distaste for such things, then you'll forgive us for disagreeing. But if you're serious about having the developers change things up, your points have to be objective, well-informed and logical from a game design perspective - it's the kind of feedback I'm sure CDPR would really appreciate.
Well, from Kofe's perspective, he's already been doing all of the things you mention here for... over 4 years now? So that may be where some of the bitterness (not that he's been particularly bitter in this thread) comes from.
Most games I ever played, I didn't like the bosses, but... I have confidence CyberPunk2077 will have very fun bosses because it's CDProjektRed
I don't really worry much about that part because I feel very confident they are getting the feel of that very special from what I have witnessed so far. (youtube gameplay so far) Peace
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Forgive me if my interpretation of this whole thread and all conversations inside, and of Tangsta's post isn't to your liking, because I really mean this in a nice way and in a nice tone with no intent to cause offense to anyone. In my opinion, Tangsta is really excellently summing up/understanding/judging the words of the arguments being made (all valid perspectives), but one thing they are not doing is judging the individuals saying them. For example, I personally don't often look at the name of a post, I usually just read the contents and reply to those contents. We're all friends here you know?
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You misunderstood. I was just telling him/her why kofe may not too interested in elaborating on all of his ideas on the topic. I didn't take what Tang said as a judgement or anything.Most games I ever played, I didn't like the bosses, but... I have confidence CyberPunk2077 will have very fun bosses because it's CDProjektRed
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Forgive me if my interpretation of this whole thread and all conversations inside, and of Tangsta's post isn't to your liking, because I really mean this in a nice way and in a nice tone with no intent to cause offense to anyone. In my opinion, Tangsta is really excellently summing up/understanding/judging the words of the arguments being made (all valid perspectives), but one thing they are not doing is judging the individuals saying them. For example, I personally don't often look at the name of a post, I usually just read the contents and reply to those contents. We're all friends here you know?
Yea! I understand
, but I also understand why Tang wanted more elaboration from kofe, because the more elaborating and sharing of ideas they give, the better understanding that can be achieved from everyone and for everyone. I'm curious, why do you in your own opinion believe that kofe may not be too interested in talking more about the topics in this thread, especially since they seemed very interested? I hope we can come to an understanding you know?
Yea! I understand
Well, I wouldn't want to speak for him any further, but based on sentiments he's shared in the past, I think the fact that he's repeated himself many, many times for several years has simply gotten tiring. I know I eventually get frustrated with making the same arguments over and over again. At what point do you just say "there's no use"? After the 12th time? 15th time?
But I'm not him, and I'll let him answer if he wants. And maybe he will repeat himself for the umpteenth time. You never know.
I'm sorry to hear that, and I can certainly relate. But yeah, whether or not he responds with a more detailed explanation, I'm glad he spoke up. It made for an interesting discussion nevertheless.
Out of curiosity, what would be your ideal boss fight scenario? What sort of things do you enjoy or not enjoy?
I don't ask because I think you think CDPR is bad at their job or anything. I'd just love to know what interests you, and what makes a boss fight (or lack thereof) good or bad.
I pointed out my preferences a bit ago; basically just realistic implementation, no one forced way of doing it (lethal only, non-lethal only, etc.), and options to avoid it in a game that touts freedom of gameplay (so the Witcher series is exempt).
I think Sild's post sums it up for me nicely:
In general, so long as it's well designed, I'll most likely enjoy it. I really don't need developers to reinvent the wheel every time they make a video game, as getting the basics right is pretty much an achievement in itself these days. DMC V is a good example of good old fashion classic game design done right - the developers understood their target audience very well and nailed the execution.
I also enjoyed the boss encounters from Zelda BOTW. I'm generally not very good with real time combat systems, but it was so well designed I had a blast figuring out how to best approach each fight. Shadow of the Colossus is another memorable example, even though I feel the controls could have been improved. I'm also a fan of the MGS games and their creative boss fights, especially Snake Eater's Cobra Unit members.
For more hardcore RPGs, I think Fallout NV is a great example of how to create interesting differing approaches to the same bosses. I hear Divinity Original Sin 2 is also not bad, though I've yet to play it.
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A good example of RPG combat is Dragon Age:Origins.
Even within the classic "tank", "DPS", "healer" tropes you could make each of them differenty each playthru, there was no "set path/skillset to victory". And while there most certainly were "Boss Fights" they were about the tactics and way you combined character/NPS skills and abilities not if you could hit a given pixel in a fraction of a second.
Even within the classic "tank", "DPS", "healer" tropes you could make each of them differenty each playthru, there was no "set path/skillset to victory". And while there most certainly were "Boss Fights" they were about the tactics and way you combined character/NPS skills and abilities not if you could hit a given pixel in a fraction of a second.
The Quiet "boss fight" is among my top favorite fights ever
. Everything was top notch, the buildup, execution, the feeling of danger.. just perfect.
Yeah. In the context of an action/adventure/stealth game, that worked brilliantly. Hats off to Kojima & Co -- watched my GF play that sequence live for the first time, it was pretty awesome.The Quiet "boss fight" is among my top favorite fights ever