[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Witzzard]

They said it's going to be a game with adult themes for adults.
My problem is that the adult themes are just brushed off with a religious undertone. Portraying cyberspace like hell and not letting the players observe or decide on their own.
Alt exists behind the black wall many other do so too. The problem is that they made her look a lot too much like Shang Tsung

Netwatch are Btw the ones saying it's raging AIs behind the black wall and yes, there are Rogue AIs behind the black wall, because Rache bartmoss released them.
The question is: are those AIs out to eat other AIs? Your engram is in fact an AI.

This is not being looked at over the course of the game. The question of "what is life" is not asked. Fuck - even mass effect did this way, way better than cyberpunk 2077.
The worse thing is that the lore is about asking such questions.


From this point of view, the story of the Witcher is far more adult.

Beyond the Blackwall; Alt, VDB, Netwatch all tell you that beyond the blackwall is a jungle of aggressive AIs preying on each other. Yet you seemingly dislike it and therefore ignore it. Even Delamaine, that great guy, basically destroyed peoples livelihood. Then you've got NightCorp which is presumably AIs reporgramming humans to reach a 'greater good' or something.
So yes, they leave nothing open for your interpretation imo, as it's seemingly not (or no longer) existing in the world presented.

Also this game includes characters looking like spiritual philosophers questioning/philosophing about souls and V situation specifically - is not asking what life is?
It's not giving an answer, sure, but every other line is about consciousness, soul&body, Change of Cybertechnology on humanity and the psyche and everything else.

So i get people complaining about how it all is presented. How much is muddles. How this game shys away from presenting something like an authors opinion on philosophical questions. But to me your post rather sounds like someone who simply wants to have the game deliver the answers he percieves for those questions.
Who needs AI and Cyberspace to be a possible heaven for continous existance. Who needs Life to also fully include AIs and not leave questions about their status.

But that all might be just my petty subjective view on the matter. And you're completly free to dislike this game, the themes and everything.

 

[owlowl22]

All the seven ends are really dark and sad. Like really. we need a happy ending.


Edit: What do you think of the alternative endings, all of them are sad, and from what I see that people want at least one a happy one, atleast like a Top secret-Easter Egg, at least to achieve it with legendary clothes and level 50, or at least in extreme hard mode. What would be the best idea to fit?

+++
Why CDPR couldn’t made one happy end? Where Johnny and V stay alive?

 

[enkee23]

+++
Why CDPR couldn’t made one happy end? Where Johnny and V stay alive?

"wrong city, wrong people"

 

[Barsenthor]

Beyond the Blackwall; Alt, VDB, Netwatch all tell you that beyond the blackwall is a jungle of aggressive AIs preying on each other. Yet you seemingly dislike it and therefore ignore it. Even Delamaine, that great guy, basically destroyed peoples livelihood. Then you've got NightCorp which is presumably AIs reporgramming humans to reach a 'greater good' or something.
So yes, they leave nothing open for your interpretation imo, as it's seemingly not (or no longer) existing in the world presented.

Also this game includes characters looking like spiritual philosophers questioning/philosophing about souls and V situation specifically - is not asking what life is?
It's not giving an answer, sure, but every other line is about consciousness, soul&body, Change of Cybertechnology on humanity and the psyche and everything else.

So i get people complaining about how it all is presented. How much is muddles. How this game shys away from presenting something like an authors opinion on philosophical questions. But to me your post rather sounds like someone who simply wants to have the game deliver the answers he percieves for those questions.
Who needs AI and Cyberspace to be a possible heaven for continous existance. Who needs Life to also fully include AIs and not leave questions about their status.

But that all might be just my petty subjective view on the matter. And you're completly free to dislike this game, the themes and everything.

I sense that in TW3 all of this would be exploited and elaborated either as a main quest or as a long and interesting side quests.
here it’s just weak bromance kind of story. All in end is brought to Johnny and everything else like AIs, Blue Eye People, Soulkiller, 4th corpo war, popular vote about NC jointing NUSA.

Really shame, not to mention that even bromance/ band of brothers is done far better in Crysis or Modern Warfare.

the only hope is that Johnny is done and over and CDPR said that it wants to explore and expand cyberpunk lore expansions.
but also: “hope” and “CDPR said”

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

"wrong city, wrong people"

No. More like wrong writer wrong conclusion to the main plot and wrong medium.

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2021

Beyond the Blackwall; Alt, VDB, Netwatch all tell you that beyond the blackwall is a jungle of aggressive AIs preying on each other. Yet you seemingly dislike it and therefore ignore it. Even Delamaine, that great guy, basically destroyed peoples livelihood. Then you've got NightCorp which is presumably AIs reporgramming humans to reach a 'greater good' or something.
So yes, they leave nothing open for your interpretation imo, as it's seemingly not (or no longer) existing in the world presented.

Also this game includes characters looking like spiritual philosophers questioning/philosophing about souls and V situation specifically - is not asking what life is?
It's not giving an answer, sure, but every other line is about consciousness, soul&body, Change of Cybertechnology on humanity and the psyche and everything else.

So i get people complaining about how it all is presented. How much is muddles. How this game shys away from presenting something like an authors opinion on philosophical questions. But to me your post rather sounds like someone who simply wants to have the game deliver the answers he percieves for those questions.
Who needs AI and Cyberspace to be a possible heaven for continous existance. Who needs Life to also fully include AIs and not leave questions about their status.

But that all might be just my petty subjective view on the matter. And you're completly free to dislike this game, the themes and everything.

And here is the problem.
They all tell me it's a dangerous place the narrative goes into that direction. The player does not get the chance to observe the horrors of cyberspace beyond the black wall.
It's simply set up as hell. V going there willingly becomes even more dumb when you look at it from that perspective.

If cyberspace is such a dangerous place, why can we go beyond the black wall without problems?because alt let's us? Seems like engram are powerful beyond the black wall. Or is it just alt?

Too many lose ends, not enough exposition. The writing in that regard is incredibly superficial but I guess at least it looks nice.

 

[enkee23]

No. More like wrong writer wrong conclusion to the main plot and wrong medium.

why no
lol thats what the game told you

the game is self-irony
"open endings sucks" + shard with data about bad movie development

 

[Witzzard]

I sense that in TW3 all of this would be exploited and elaborated either as a main quest or as a long and interesting side quests.
here it’s just weak bromance kind of story. All in end is brought to Johnny and everything else like AIs, Blue Eye People, Soulkiller, 4th corpo war, popular vote about NC jointing NUSA.

Really shame, not to mention that even bromance/ band of brothers is done far better in Crysis or Modern Warfare.

the only hope is that Johnny is done and over and CDPR said that it wants to explore and expand cyberpunk lore expansions.
but also: “hope” and “CDPR said”

Gotta confess i owe all 3 Witcher titles, but never played them really. 1+2 Because i highly disliked the gameplay and 3 because i got the feeling i'd have to play 1+2 to get what's really happening (and still didn't like the gameplay much ).

But yes, Cyberpunk 2077 is a game in which a lot of stuff is just mentioned along the actual path.
The best indicator on how wierd it feels is for me the outcome with Meredith Stout - the game can show you 2 possible outcoems. But you're never put onto one of that (as far as i am aware). While other games would have made it very obvious of what happens to her. You at least would have gotten a quest near enough to find it.
And that also happens with the 2 Monks of which you can save one. It happens with the Zen Master, who's just a side quest drowned out in the feeling that these aren't big quests, but short jobs.
A big failure for me, is how gigs and side jobs simply don't feel like actual quests or stuff your character would truly partake in. In Divnital Original Sin 2 rescuing some dog, feels like something a good hearted character would nessecarily do, in CP2077 rescuing some Netrunner out of gang clutches simply feels like a job to me - something less personal.
And so even when it touches onto subjects, it often feels like some background music if not even just noise.

Honestly, i've not much hope for Cyberpunk2077 itself in terms of getting big rewrites or some silver bullet DLC that makes everything much better. That's most often not what companies do.
But, and i know a lot of people might foam about my attitude here - I think CP2077 presents a somewhat stable (still needs massive optimizations) and okay-ish entry into the Cyberpunk universe and i hope CDPR might be able to deliver a great Cyberpunk 2078.
In the same way as they, for me, were able to make the witcher series gameplay somwhat good with the Witcher 3.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

why no
lol thats what the game told you

the game is self-irony
"open endings sucks" + shard with data about bad movie development

I failed to see the self-irony.

Maybe because it's taking itself very seriously.

 

[enkee23]

I failed to see the self-irony.
Maybe because it's taking itself very seriously.

because the game hides a lot of things from the player or maybe self-irony is pure coincidence

 

[Witzzard]

No. More like wrong writer wrong conclusion to the main plot and wrong medium.

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2021

And here is the problem.
They all tell me it's a dangerous place the narrative goes into that direction. The player does not get the chance to observe the horrors of cyberspace beyond the black wall.
It's simply set up as hell. V going there willingly becomes even more dumb when you look at it from that perspective.

If cyberspace is such a dangerous place, why can we go beyond the black wall without problems?because alt let's us? Seems like engram are powerful beyond the black wall. Or is it just alt?

Too many lose ends, not enough exposition. The writing in that regard is incredibly superficial but I guess at least it looks nice.

My honest impression is that they didn't know how to represent its alien nature in a good way.
And yes, it's not great in regards to the explorative nature of us.

Yes the endings suck in many different ways, i'm in complete agreement about that
It's not even touched upon why V would need to go beyond the black wall as an AI, given that Delamain and other AIs seemingly want to stay on the side AI V begins her AI (un-/)life.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

because the game hides a lot of things from the player or maybe self-irony is pure coincidence

Hiding stuff from the player is actually not real a good thing you know.

 

[sacred_darling]

+++
Why CDPR couldn’t made one happy end? Where Johnny and V stay alive?

Imo, they just made a bet that an overdramatic fatal ending would be more edgy memorable than a more neutral, or somehow boring, ending (like compatibility between V and J, which would make sense). Probably cause they had to wrap up the script unexpectedly (to me it feels like there should have been more before the "no return point", lots of YouTubers I watch are surprised that it comes too early and I was surprised too).

They could have let V survive in a more obvious way. Just a couple of lines in the phone calls like "the cure is now in progress, you can be the first volunteer to try it" could work as a band aid. Yet, they added some overcliched drama.

That's a shame cause obviously 2021 DLCs won't continue the story (there were some official posts about that), and even if there were plans to continue the whole story later in 5-10 years, the first impression has already been made.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

In addition to that, I will be very cautious about future purchases.

The last bioware game I played was mass effect 3

 

[sacred_darling]

And just to add one more thing: one of the ways how character arcs could work.

Well, the one below is RDR2, with C to D being good 40-50% of the game? V never even got a chance to accept dying. 5 minutes before the game ends V is still kicking and screaming that they want to live

 

[Barsenthor]

Gotta confess i owe all 3 Witcher titles, but never played them really. 1+2 Because i highly disliked the gameplay and 3 because i got the feeling i'd have to play 1+2 to get what's really happening (and still didn't like the gameplay much ).

But yes, Cyberpunk 2077 is a game in which a lot of stuff is just mentioned along the actual path.
The best indicator on how wierd it feels is for me the outcome with Meredith Stout - the game can show you 2 possible outcoems. But you're never put onto one of that (as far as i am aware). While other games would have made it very obvious of what happens to her. You at least would have gotten a quest near enough to find it.
And that also happens with the 2 Monks of which you can save one. It happens with the Zen Master, who's just a side quest drowned out in the feeling that these aren't big quests, but short jobs.
A big failure for me, is how gigs and side jobs simply don't feel like actual quests or stuff your character would truly partake in. In Divnital Original Sin 2 rescuing some dog, feels like something a good hearted character would nessecarily do, in CP2077 rescuing some Netrunner out of gang clutches simply feels like a job to me - something less personal.
And so even when it touches onto subjects, it often feels like some background music if not even just noise.

Honestly, i've not much hope for Cyberpunk2077 itself in terms of getting big rewrites or some silver bullet DLC that makes everything much better. That's most often not what companies do.
But, and i know a lot of people might foam about my attitude here - I think CP2077 presents a somewhat stable (still needs massive optimizations) and okay-ish entry into the Cyberpunk universe and i hope CDPR might be able to deliver a great Cyberpunk 2078.
In the same way as they, for me, were able to make the witcher series gameplay somwhat good with the Witcher 3.

Somehow I agree that this is rather okayish entry story to the Cyberpunk universe but only if the expansions will do the most work for story.
World/lore is just far to good and big to be brought to the bromance.

Its really shame that everything right now is ruined by forced plot cancer along with many far more interesting things than dead Johnny character.

About TW3 you should play just to see how great the Blood Baron story arc is, that for most part is rather a side quest. and game shins in many side quests/contracts.

As I said I will wait as see what more CDPR has to offer.
Games are in general are getting bigger and better, new hardware will make making the even bigger easier. AI and procedural generation will only help to speed up this process, so overall we are going to see more games like this in the making.

 

[Loud.mp3]

The game is telling us where is V's place, so we can sit next to this garbage bag and wait for the ending.

 

[enkee23]

Hiding stuff from the player is actually not real a good thing you know.

depends

if you want only one personal canon walkthrough you should get all stuff before final decision
and it's bad for a player because the desire to know how a game ends increases with every step but player has to dig and postpone the ending, which in general, in my understanding, torments the player and destroys the pleasure of the game

but if you want to play game several times it's important to find something new and get new experience

for example, my first one (street kid) was absolute perfect due to story (main >>> judy >>> johhny >>> panam >>> the sun)
on the second one (corpo) i accidentally change order of quests (main >>> panam >>> main >>> johhny) get pissed of johhny because i already was in love with panam and he was having fun with other women after so i decided to erase him and chose arasaka

 

[sacred_darling]

depends

if you want only one personal canon walkthrough you should get all stuff before final decision
and it's bad for a player because the desire to know how a game ends increases with every step but player has to dig and postpone the ending, which in general, in my understanding, torments the player and destroys the pleasure of the game

That seems like a very personal thing. If I like the game, I like "digging" into it.

but if you want to play game several times it's important to find something new and get new experience

Yep, but the endings that are exactly the same don't contribute to this at all -- what's the point of a new playthrough? Moreover, you can access everything by returning to the "point of no return" save -- that's the way the game is built. I mean, it's clearly more suited to one big 200+ hour playthrough rather than several runs (although there's some good variable stuff early on, like whether you should kill Royce, VBs or when you should kill Woodman, without much impact on the actual story).

upd. I'm actually on my 2nd playthrough now. The reason is that I couldn't change my V's appearance and give her a new haircut or even hairdye The lifepath doesn't affect anything, so V's makeover is one reason I could think of.

 

[Eritros]

depends

if you want only one personal canon walkthrough you should get all stuff before final decision
and it's bad for a player because the desire to know how a game ends increases with every step but player has to dig and postpone the ending, which in general, in my understanding, torments the player and destroys the pleasure of the game

but if you want to play game several times it's important to find something new and get new experience

for example, my first one (street kid) was absolute perfect due to story (main >>> judy >>> johhny >>> panam >>> the sun)
on the second one (corpo) i accidentally change order of quests (main >>> panam >>> main >>> johhny) get pissed of johhny because i already was in love with panam and he was having fun with other women after so i decided to erase him and chose arasaka

Someone should do a meme about what Johnny decides to do when you give him V's body for the first time with that scene in Rick&Morty about a "Twenty minute adventure".

Anyway, I still think the only way they could wrap up all the endings is by introducing a third character that was there all along the journey, and I'm not talking about Mr.BE.
Something able to make the player detach from V's destiny, as if the MC was just a tool, maybe a vessel, for something much more important,

 

[enkee23]

That seems like a very personal thing. If I like the game, I like "digging" into it.
Yep, but the endings that are exactly the same don't contribute to this at all -- what's the point of a new playthrough? Moreover, you can access everything by returning to the "point of no return" save -- that's the way the game is built. I mean, it's clearly more suited to one big 200+ hour playthrough rather than several runs (although there's some good variable stuff early on, like whether you should kill Royce, VBs or when you should kill Woodman, without much impact on the actual story).

lifepaths open new lines in dialogues and sidequests don't involve on the main story a lot but they have a local variation