Augments... Implants... Cyberware... Full Body Conversion?

[chriswebb2020.736]

If the game doesn't lead the character to moral compromises in pursuit of power, I will be very disappointed

I am hoping for the full range of augmentation, + biosculpt if I get a powerful need to change face or look like a lizard or something. I do think access to all those wonderful toys should be a driving plot point and your characters associations and choices should open and close options. And heck waking up on the chop shop table to face a smiling corporate who wants to talk about the bomb in your chest should always be a hazard of going to the wrong place for your chrome.

.

See, you can always tell who has, and who hasn't, played 2020.

 

[cstomper]

do you know what FBC would make a awesome boss fight

a Arasaka "Daioni" PA conversion
its the only FBC that is effectively a PA it's a 3.5 meter tall 1 - 1.5 ton monster
with enough built in weaponry to level a city block in an eye blink including a built in "oni" auto shotgun
the thing gave me shivers just reading the description in
Firestorm Shockwave - The Fourth Corporate War - Book 2

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

do you know what FBC would make a awesome boss fight

a Arasaka "Daioni" PA conversion
its the only FBC that is effectively a PA it's a 3.5 meter tall 1 - 1.5 ton monster
with enough built in weaponry to level a city block in an eye blink including a built in "oni" auto shotgun
the thing gave me shivers just reading the description in
Firestorm Shockwave - The Fourth Corporate War - Book 2

Make it chase you into a delapidated appartment block, get up to the roof and blow the floor on the sucker. Watch it fall through 20+ floors and rumage through whatever is left of it for parts.

We did that once. The guys didn't like my idea which was to run into the same block and dump my bag of C6 in the doorway. I maintain it would have had the same overall effect.



I doubt we will be fighting anything as powerful as the Daioni in 2077. The writers made it pretty clear that they want to keep the power level fairly low. As much as I would love to stop around in an ACPA, I just don't think we will see them, (unless some fun loving individuals get creative with mods...)

 

[Sardukhar]

Like it would go into the block. Damn thing is way too heavy. Just level the building instead.

 

[LexiiO]

"Daioni" means "kindness" in welsh.

Yeah. Something is definately wrong here lol!

I who loves boss battles would never say no to something like that.

 

[Decatonkeil]

"Daioni" means "kindness" in welsh.

Yeah. Something is definately wrong here lol!

I who loves boss battles would never say no to something like that.

As envisioned by me.

Well, maybe I should have edited it to make it reversed... but I don't know how to.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

"Daioni" means "kindness" in welsh.

Yeah. Something is definately wrong here lol!

I who loves boss battles would never say no to something like that.

I may be wrong, but in Japanese it would roughly translate to Demon Lord.

However, 'Kindness' is much funnier.

 

[cstomper]

the literal and direct translation would be dai 'large' oni 'demon'

although the kindness translation is absolutely a hilarious
i always though that maybe a container shipping yard area where it can rip through the containers if it hears you and nothing you have is able to scratch it so you have to run and hide basically recreating the fear and excitement i felt in the hotel run sequence from Cthulhu dark corners of the earth
that or make it like a optional super boss or something

cause i would imagine only a rail gun could make that monster pause and assault close combat would be suicide cause of the built in oni auto shotgun so maybe a stealth play style where you have to systematically sneak up plant like a thermite charge and then run away and hide while it recovers then hunts you rinse repeat 6-7 times then gte sequence to rip out the bio pod or shut it down for a fatal/non-fatal option to take it out or i dont know force the jacked in alpha borg body to eject making it a more level fight?

i swear the last decent super boss i versed was mysterious figure from birth by sleep

does anyone else miss super bosses that drive you nut when you fight them like final fantasy 11's pandemonium warden pre patch when it took like 18 hr's dedicated play with a high level party to take it down most games are to lenient these days where the final boss for the story is the most powerful foe in the game

 

[Lolssi83.811]

Noup. I mostly want my bosses to be just as "weak" as everyone else. They can have better training and gear but still far from meatshields.
In my opinion Missing Link had right idea about boss fights. Also bosses don't always have to be the toughest s.o.b. they just need to have man power.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Noup. I mostly want my bosses to be just as "weak" as everyone else. They can have better training and gear but still far from meatshields.
In my opinion Missing Link had right idea about boss fights. Also bosses don't always have to be the toughest s.o.b. they just need to have man power.

I agree, though I have to say that mixing it up once in a while with a real 'tank' of a boss (or as I have suggested before - a bosses bodyguard,) can make a nice change of pace.

 

[M1dN1t3]

a quick question would not making any augmentationes feel like playing extreme hard mode or no nonaugmenties still have a shot in world like cyberpunk???

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

a quick question would not making any augmentationes feel like playing extreme hard mode or no nonaugmenties still have a shot in world like cyberpunk???

I would expect it to be the equivalent of extra hard mode. But not impossible. You would also probably find it easier to relate to people and do the talky roles.

 

[emicrania]

if there is one thing i hate,is difficulty level in a game.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

if there is one thing i hate,is difficulty level in a game.

Why? Some people are more capable than others. Surely that's the whole point. Why punish the guys that want mote or less?

Anyway, the level of augmentation shouldn't change the overall difficulty of the game, just given tasks. It should all be about give and take.

 

[Sardukhar]

Well.

You would probably -not- like the CP2020 RPG difficulty setting I dram of. That's one that uses the book rules: 8 damage to a limb forces a death check, all head damage after penetration is doubled, really nasty wound penalties, armour value being reduced one stage every penetration, minimum 1 damage on a hit, etc etc.

These rules, when fully employed, make CP2020 the nastiest combat system I've played in. You really can die in a few seconds from a single knife thrust or .22 round if you get lucky or they are good.

Gear and cyber make the game more survivable. We've had this discussion a few times, but if a Ref is using all the horrible combat and wound rules of FNFF, including the added damage from Martial Arts, multiple attacks in one go and so on and so on, you REALLY need that gear to survive even an encounter with what in another game would be mere mooks, like street gangers or Random Thugs.

So without these advantages, yeah, the game would be a Very Hard mode indeed. Oh and of course, unlike in a videogame, your character only gets one life ever.

With lesser difficulties, many of these rules might be ameliorated in severity, multiple save points would be available, you would have a chance perhaps to have a combat that lasts longer than 18 seconds or so.

 

[emicrania]

Ok,calm down.
The reason why i hate the difficulties levels is because ,IMO, looses the tension and the realism of the game.
Example: being a rockerboy ,fighting 5 guys in a dark alley with no augments and half broken bottle is clearly not a funny situation as being a solo with all the limbs augmented,an uzi hidden in the left arm and full armored vp 20.
Why? because if you are a rocker and you find yourself alone with your bottle of booze and you did a shit performance,is your fucking fault and you deserve to wake up in a trauma team 20000 eb shorter and looking like Face Off. You messed it up as a player,simply reload and do it better,more adpted to your char style and more adapted to what you can and what you cannot.
The best game i played they have a curve of difficulty that is equable from start to the end: you can die fucking it up the first mission as you can nail the final boss at the first try,if you played good and got a bit of luck.
If a situation is too hard,you don't low the difficulty,you try other solutions.
If you want realism this is realism.and takes a good planning from CDPR also to make a GOOD game.
After all you can't lower the level of harrassment of your boss just using up,down,down,X,O,O,X,left; can you?

 

[dragonbird]

I don't think that difficulty levels should be what you're describing there and neither do CDPR, based on the TW2 experience. CDPR were far from perfect in the way they handled it, but from what happened in TW2, and from what they've said in TW3, the chances are high that, if you go to the wrong place at the wrong time, while your character is still an innocent noob, you'll get killed. Regardless of the difficulty level you're on.

Difficulty levels shouldn't be there to let your character act like a fool and go into fights he/she can't win. Difficulty levels should exist because not every player is the same. Difficulty levels should exist so that the game is playable both by the 20-something who has been playing FPS since he was 10, AND to the 60-something who loved Cyberpunk PnP but hasn't much experience at real-time combat in video games.

It shouldn't be easy for players at either end of the spectrum, but it should be something where you feel that if you practice, or if you build up your character and come back later, you CAN defeat those five guys in the alley. It's bad if players walk away in boredom because it's too easy, and it's bad if players walk away in frustration because it's impossible.

And turning down the difficulty for a fight? I don't see a real problem with it. If you want to feel a sense of achievement by not doing so, then fine. Stick to one level all the way through and get a Steam Achievement or something for doing so. But I prefer them not to force other players to give up 50 hours into the game just because they can't drop the difficulty. And if someone really wants to finish it and can't then fine, use a God Mode mod. What someone else does has no impact on your own game.

 

[dragonbird]

I don't think that difficulty levels should be what you're describing there and neither do CDPR, based on the TW2 experience. CDPR were far from perfect in the way they handled it, but from what happened in TW2, and from what they've said in TW3, the chances are high that, if you go to the wrong place at the wrong time, while your character is still an innocent noob, you'll get killed. Regardless of the difficulty level you're on.

Difficulty levels shouldn't be there to let your character act like a fool and go into fights he/she can't win. Difficulty levels should exist because not every player is the same. Difficulty levels should exist so that the game is playable both by the 20-something who has been playing FPS since he was 10, AND to the 60-something who loved Cyberpunk PnP but hasn't much experience at real-time combat in video games.

It shouldn't be easy for players at either end of the spectrum, but it should be something where you feel that if you practice, or if you build up your character and come back later, you CAN defeat those five guys in the alley. It's bad if players walk away in boredom because it's too easy, and it's bad if players walk away in frustration because it's impossible.

And turning down the difficulty for a fight? I don't see a real problem with it. If you want to feel a sense of achievement by not doing so, then fine. Stick to one level all the way through and get a Steam Achievement or something for doing so. But I prefer them not to force other players to give up 50 hours into the game just because they can't drop the difficulty. And if someone really wants to finish it and can't then fine, use a God Mode mod. What someone else does has no impact on your own game.

 

[M1dN1t3]

well I wasnt talking about that kind of dificulty setting, I was talking more around the grounds of how augments make difirent chores or challenges alot easier to acomplish kinda like deus ex where you can things like cracking codes for looks with out augmentations but hacking augments making hacking alot easier and less troublesome. I really dont a menu screen asking what my dificulty setting will be I`d rather have my gave evolve and change as I advance through the game.

 

[dragonbird]

OK, so we have (at least) three different usages of "level". I'm not sure that everyone is talking about the same thing.

Firstly, there's difficulty levels, which reflects player ability and is usually set at the beginning of the game and may be changeable during the game. I've already said why I think that should exist.

Then there's levelling up, which means that the character you play gets more powerful as the game progresses. For a Cyberpunk game, I'd expect this to be by acquiring skills to a certain extent, but also to be by acquiring augs, better weapons, whatever. So yes, dynamic. And yes, it should exist. And yes, it should be possible but very difficult to play the game without levelling up (like DX:HR Factory Zero playthroughs).

And thirdly there's level scaling, where a specific enemy scales up as you do, which would mean that if you meet those five guys in an alley an hour in, the ease of killing them is similar to if you meet them 40 hours in. I don't think the game should have that - if you come face to face with the wrong guys too early, you talk your way out of it, or run away and hide, or you die. CDPR games in the past have been designed that way, TW3 is going to be designed that way and hopefully CP77 will too.

So yes to difficulty levels, yes to levelling up, no to level scaling.