New CG Cinematic for The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Shows Geralt “Killing Monsters”

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CostinMoroianu said:
Ok...so Nilfgaard did all of that. Alright.

What does that have to do with cannibalism? That's what I judge her for. If we were talking about just murder and looting then maybe I wouldn't care so much, but we are not.

You can spin the tale however way you want it to. There are crimes greater then others, and murdering someone, looting their things and then eating them is among the absolute worst.

We don't know if she enjoyed eating humans or not but this is really an ethical dilemma, is cannabalism worse then murder (and that's if you kill someone to eat them which we aren't even sure is what happened)? Me myself thinks it seems disgusting to eat human flesh but why is that really? In wartime everything is destroyed and her farm was probably burnt down and pillaged by either the Nilfgardians or in a preventive move by the northerners. What if she had the choise between starving to death and eating corpses? Does that make her an evil person?
 

Agent_Blue

Guest
cmdrsilverbolt said:
If you don't want to, then that's your call. But you can't pass off what you're saying as true and what everyone else is saying as false. We don't have enough information to give clear cut answers for what happened.

All we know is that Geralt did what he did, and we can make guesses about what made him act that way. If you don't like his actions or the guesses, fine, but let's acknowledge that it's allowed for characters to act in ways you don't like.

Personally, I didn't see rape in the trailer when I first saw it, but I think there's an implication of rape because of the dialogue between the soldiers (which Geralt hears as he's riding away). Considering these facts, it's understandable why Geralt acted the way he did.

Rape is subtly alluded to. It used to be a fairly common tactic in war-ridden areas.

Now, was Geralt justified in stopping the abuse?

Yes.

Did he overstep that mandate and took on the role of accuser, judge and executioner?

Yes.

Were his actions consistent with the moral creed he'd just muttered?

No.

Is such idealistic absolutist creed consistent with his character?

I don't think so.
 
CostinMoroianu said:
Ok...so Nilfgaard did all of that. Alright.

What does that have to do with cannibalism? That's what I judge her for. If we were talking about just murder and looting then maybe I wouldn't care so much, but we are not.

You can spin the tale however way you want it to. There are crimes greater then others, and murdering someone, looting their things and then eating them is among the absolute worst.

Did you read the books? Thats exactly what Nilfgaar is doing during invasion...

And about cannibalism, I don't think she did all that things right after each other like you writing it... I imagine it was more like she was looting dead bodies to find something to eat, if she run across some dying soldier she killed him and just at the point when there was nothing else to eat and she was starving to death, that was the moment when she turned to a cannibalism and I don't blame her for that, for me it's braver than just lay on ground and die...
 
AgentBlue said:
Rape is subtly alluded to. It used to be a fairly common tactic in war-ridden areas.

Now, was Geralt justified in stopping the abuse?

Yes.

Did he overstep that mandate and took on the role of accuser, judge and executioner?

Yes.

Were his actions consistent with the moral creed he'd just muttered?

No.

Is such idealistic absolutist creed consistent with his character?

I don't think so.

It is questionable if Geralt would and would not do this.I recall that in a book a similar scene took place where soldiers just went off to rape a woman and Geralt had just enaugh of witnessing things like this so he killed them just like in the CGI.
 
CostinMoroianu said:
Ok...so Nilfgaard did all of that. Alright.

What does that have to do with cannibalism? That's what I judge her for. If we were talking about just murder and looting then maybe I wouldn't care so much, but we are not.

You can spin the tale however way you want it to. There are crimes greater then others, and murdering someone, looting their things and then eating them is among the absolute worst.

I don't know doing this because you are hungry and desperate seems to be less worse than mass murdering women and children for glory of Nilfgaard.
 
Is there a polish version of this trailer? can't find it anywhere. Really don't like Geralts voice actor as always, he sounds so monotone and boring,
 
AgentBlue said:
Rape is subtly alluded to. It's also a fairly common event in war-ridden areas.
Well, it seemed to me that he didn't give a shit about taking that as a given, that's what he didn't choose- to accept this incidence because it's a "common event" etc.
Were his actions consistent with the moral creed he'd just muttered?

No.
See above.
 
AgentBlue said:
Please Wichat, don't pull metaphysics on me.

Geralt is a fictional character.
From what's said and/or implied, and for all intents and purposes, Geralt knows what we do.


Metaphysics? When not judging by appearances is metaphysics? Don't ascribe me so much culture, please />/>/> . Just express how appearances in a scene from 2:45 minutes can not be taken literally without knowing the origins. Although the vast majority of us think we know Geralt. />A fictional character for whom you were asking realism, maturity and grey options for chose..../>
If you call that Metaphysic you flatter me unnecessarily./>/>/>
 
CostinMoroianu said:
Give me one good reason why I should not judge based on appearances in a video game trailer of a scene that will likely be of little to no real importance in the game if it even makes it there at all.


Because we don't know if this trailer is just a trailer, a post cut scene after making a choice or a part of a quest before make a choice... We don't know nothing... but speculations.
 

Agent_Blue

Guest
cmdrsilverbolt said:
Well, it seemed to me that he didn't give a shit about taking that as a given, that's what he didn't choose- to accept this incidence because it's a "common event" etc.

See above.

No no no.
Don't get me wrong.

I'm not saying that to in any way excuse the soldiers but, quite the contrary, to cut Geralt some slack in thinking the girl was about to be raped. He had to do something all right. However, since he obviously had worked out an arrangement with the captain, he was in the position to further investigate before taking drastic measures. For example, Geralt could have attempted to trade his reward in exchange for the girl's life or her swift execution.

More importantly, for the trailer to resonate with TW trademark moral ambiguity, the whole ordeal would have to be ambivalent as well. Most viewers would go through an internal debate at the end of the trailer. Instead, the fact Geralt acts on the spur of the moment carries the insidious message this is a clean-cut scenario. No surprise then that very few around here seem to sympathize with the soldiers.

Notice how the moral unbalance is further accentuated. The victim's face is Vermeer-ian while the soldiers' are gritty and almost disfigured to the liking of Francis Bacon.
 
We don’t know the whole story so there is no way for us to judge what Geralt did, but i would prefer a choice for something like this.
 
The issue here is that morality is relative, whatever people might say or, for that matter, want. It is directly connected to the reality of the society that sets the moral norms. Our modern society is vastly different from those of Medieval Ages, and while we share a common core (mostly thanks to common cultural foundation, i.e. Greek and Latin), we do not share the same situation. Regarding the discussion, I wanted to point out a couple of things:

- Killing off wounded, whatever we may think today, was widely practiced, and even seen as honorable. There even was a weapon, misericorde, which was a knife especially made for this very purpose. The act of killing wounded was considered merciful (misericordia is "mercy" in Latin), since up to 3/4 of them would die anyway due to diseases (gangrene and such), many in pain. And I'm not talking about scrapes and broken bones, I'm talking about wounds a Medieval warrior's weapon inflicted. It was enough if one was cut (not mortally) in arm, got his skin and muscle slashed, then fell down to the ground, got the wound dirty. Gangrene was on the way, and without modern medical care it was all it took. Then again, without any context I do not know enough of the woman's intentions to decide whether she was acting out of mercy, vengeance (like, her family could have been killed), or simply wanted to loot the dying. And where did she found the wounded anyway? Were they lying on the battleground, left to slowly die from their wounds, or when they were recuperating in a hospital, or wherever. Judging from the scenery, the events seem to take place somewhat away from any larger groups of people (like an army camp), I think she was simply killing off wounded on the battleground who were left to die anyway. (Plus the charges might be simply trumped up; the guys wanted to have some fun, so they found a convenient "villain".)

- About looting and cannibalism. In the northern climate there is only a single vegetation period, a brief, couple-months long window to produce enough food that will allow to survive winter. When war wages on, even if the crops are not trampled, looted or otherwise destroyed by warring armies, there might simply not be anyone to harvest the crops (men taken into the army, captured or killed), so the crops will rot on the fields, or there even might not be anyone to plant the crops in the first place. And lack of crops would virtually mean death for people living off of them. It's not like today where we have vast surplus of food and we can easily cushion seasonal problems with what we produce elsewhere, or what we have stored within the economy. We go to shop and buy whatever we want. Most people in Middle Ages did not have the luxury. So a war often meant starvation for otherwise uninvolved populace. And quite frankly looting and cannibalism is something to expect, really, and whatever we might think of ourselves, I dare to call us all animals (because that is what we are), and biological impulse to survive is there in all of us. Unlike today, where looting is mostly due to simple greed and opportunism, when the economy that was just enough to sustain you crumbles down and lefts you with no means of survival, I deem it acceptable (if not moral) to loot and even turn to cannibalism, instead of just lying down and wait for death. Obviously cannibalism and looting does not imply killing, at least with your own hands. And even modern society can be brought to this situation, WWII is a good example of how otherwise ordinary people can act.

- As due trials of the accused go, the reality is that in the Middle Ages there were not really practiced according to any standards we now would consider just. It was only the Inquisition that began creating the idea of the legal proceedings, gathering proofs that wither confirm or deny guilt, and so on. Besides that, hearsay was often considered enough to condemn, especially if the accused was for some reason not liked, or was seen as inconvenient. That was especially true in times of war, especially since there was no real means to isolate criminals - that would require both the infrastructure (prison) and manpower which normally could not be spared. Only the rich and powerful were considered important enough (i.e. they could be ransomed or convinced to use their influence in their captor's favor) for imprisonment. The common populace - not so much. Armies (even today, for that matter) are not about morality and justice, but practicality, and dealing with someone that was presumed a criminal was quick and final. There were no trials; if one was caught, even if his guilt was only perceived as such by the invaders, he was dealt with on the spot. And since looting was something armies were doing all the time, sometimes as a necessity (getting food), most times out of greed, even as much as refusing them was considered a crime punishable by death (to make an example). And, well, the looting also included women. Anyway, it's no wonder if there wasn't any trial, and the woman was simply "caught" and "sentenced" pro forma, so that the "justice" can be served.
 
Why do we believe that Geralt had some responsibility to investigate the truth of this incidence? He chose not to give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt, he made a judgement based on the way they were acting. It's okay for characters, who are not bastions of pure morality or perfectly impartial judges of a court, to act from a visceral point of view.

There is moral ambiguity in the trailer because of the environment in which these events take place, but that's not to imply that Geralt is always perfectly neutral.

Notice how the moral unbalance is further accentuated. The victim's face is Vermeer-ian while the soldiers' are gritty and almost disfigured to the liking of Francis Bacon.
A matter of perception.
 
Do we have any idea who the rider alongside Geralt could be? I've heard theories about Ciri but judging from the voice that's a no.
 
fchopin said:
We don’t know the whole story so there is no way for us to judge what Geralt did, but i would prefer a choice for something like this.

I think we are told everything that is necessary for the scene to happen; but the problem comes from inconsistency between actions and narration.

In the game, I think it's safe to say, there'll be choices. I just hope they're not all as impulsive based as how it is shown here.
 

Agent_Blue

Guest
cmdrsilverbolt said:
Why do we believe that Geralt had some responsibility to investigate the truth of this incidence? He chose not to give the soldiers the benefit of the doubt, he made a judgement based on the way they were acting. It's okay for characters, who are not bastions of pure morality or perfectly impartial judges of a court, to act from a visceral point of view.

There is moral ambiguity in the trailer because of the environment in which these events take place, but that's not to imply that Geralt is always perfectly neutral.


A matter of perception.

There is a disturbing trend on this forum to (ab)use the pronoun we, first person plural. Please do not join that exclusive club which already has a following around here.


Why does Geralt have the responsibility?

Because before dicing people up like mango in a Thai food carving demo, it is advisable to get the facts right.
That's why.

Don't be disingenuous. Look at her face and then their faces. Gone are the hopes of moral ambiguity in that trailer.
 
I don't know what point you're trying to make by picking on my usage of "we", it's a general pronoun. I would appreciate your point more if you stated more clearly what you mean.

More to the point, I don't even know what facts one needs if they see someone being brutalized before them. I guess we can say that some people would exercise caution, and others would not; it seems that Geralt falls in the latter category.

How can you say that there's no moral ambiguity in the trailer when we're all having such a lively discussion about our interpretation of the events.

And I'm not being "disingenuous" if I don't feel the same way as you when I see a piece of art, like I said it's a matter of perception.
 
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