CP77 : sex (...), drugs (???) and rock'n roll : where are drugs ?

[Arcafonk]

Instead of asking "moar sex" (there is a lot of threads about that), in term of adult themes, I'd ask moar drugs. : so far I found one dealer in Jig-Jig street, and I feel the game is totally rainbow/unicorn/politically correct about drugs.

In CP77, they either :
- don't exist out of Johnny's cutscenes
- are an element reserved for supervilains, or superstupid characters.

This message, "drugs are for villains / the PC champ don't do drug" message is straigth from Reagan's America. CP77 choose what is moral there. This also evacuate the social issue with drugs and permit CDPR to be "ligth" on that subject.

Also, alcool is only seen with a detrimental effect. In CP77, drinking can (only) be for losers.
After 1 year of lockdown tbh, I crave for a good bender with friends.

- What if the player actually wants to be a punk, in a... cyberpunk game ? Addiction ? Shouldn't drugs be treated as having one "good" effect then one "bad" effect instead of "alcool is always bad + the few drugs boosters you would find are equivalents of always good medieval potions" ?
- What about making the player actually think about sociology of drugs, instead of being forced to be Batman against drugs ?
- What about a quest in a future DLC asking for a moral choice here ? (note that I did not played all the mission yet)

Exemple of a set of rules I see for drugs :
The menu :
- Synthcoke : INT+3 / DEX +3 / TECH -2 for 2 minutes then TECH -1 / COOL -1 for 5 minutes.
- (combo) Smash : TECH +2 / COOL +2 (aka temp fix synth coke's descent effects) for 2 minutes then (-2 total to other attributes) for 5 minutes.
- ...
=> With this, accumulating drugs would be a quick boost then a spiral of maluses.

Solutions to that spiral :
- Alcool could have an always bad effect but after its effect, it would remove one random drug timer ("good" or "bad" timer). Removes more effects for top tier alcool, or have less bad effect.
- Sleep solves all drugs / alcool timers.

Mid term effects :
- Buying too much drugs to a given dealer would regen agression events around that dealer (with common loot only, because else, this is rainbow/unicorn the other way). Buy 10, regen 1 (for exemple).

Long term effect :
- Addiction : +1% XP (cumulative) for 1 hour per dose, "you gonna love the experience"
- Money cost at one given dealer may increase by 1 tier for 10 doses or decrease by 1 tier each ingame day with no buying event.

Also :
- dealers don't buy your stuff.

...that kind of ideas...

AKA : what about injecting more adult themes about this subject/matter/phenomenon in CP77 ?

Thoughs ?

 

[Noire_]

Dum Dum offered a drug

 

[Mister_Holdout]

If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying Cyberpunk should let you interact more with drugs?

That's fine with me. If someone wants to role play a junkie character, I don't see any problem with that. Cyberpunk should not shy away from adult themes.

 

[MM0Junkie]

Dum Dum offered a drug

yea but that's only if you do the peaceful route of that mission...and who wants to be a pacifist in cyberpunk?

 

[IskrasFemme]

Wait, sex in Cyber, have?

(lol)

 

[gallantchar]

Instead of asking "moar sex" (there is a lot of threads about that), in term of adult themes, I'd ask moar drugs. : so far I found one dealer in Jig-Jig street, and I feel the game is totally rainbow/unicorn/politically correct about drugs.

In CP77, they either :
- don't exist out of Johnny's cutscenes
- are an element reserved for supervilains, or superstupid characters.

This message, "drugs are for villains / the PC champ don't do drug" message is straigth from Reagan's America. CP77 choose what is moral there. This also evacuate the social issue with drugs and permit CDPR to be "ligth" on that subject.

Also, alcool is only seen with a detrimental effect. In CP77, drinking can (only) be for losers.
After 1 year of lockdown tbh, I crave for a good bender with friends.

- What if the player actually wants to be a punk, in a... cyberpunk game ? Addiction ? Shouldn't drugs be treated as having one "good" effect then one "bad" effect instead of "alcool is always bad + the few drugs boosters you would find are equivalents of always good medieval potions" ?
- What about making the player actually think about sociology of drugs, instead of being forced to be Batman against drugs ?
- What about a quest in a future DLC asking for a moral choice here ? (note that I did not played all the mission yet)

Exemple of a set of rules I see for drugs :
The menu :
- Synthcoke : INT+3 / DEX +3 / TECH -2 for 2 minutes then TECH -1 / COOL -1 for 5 minutes.
- (combo) Smash : TECH +2 / COOL +2 (aka temp fix synth coke's descent effects) for 2 minutes then (-2 total to other attributes) for 5 minutes.
- ...
=> With this, accumulating drugs would be a quick boost then a spiral of maluses.

Solutions to that spiral :
- Alcool could have an always bad effect but after its effect, it would remove one random drug timer ("good" or "bad" timer). Removes more effects for top tier alcool, or have less bad effect.
- Sleep solves all drugs / alcool timers.

Mid term effects :
- Buying too much drugs to a given dealer would regen agression events around that dealer (with common loot only, because else, this is rainbow/unicorn the other way). Buy 10, regen 1 (for exemple).

Long term effect :
- Addiction : +1% XP (cumulative) for 1 hour per dose, "you gonna love the experience"
- Money cost at one given dealer may increase by 1 tier for 10 doses or decrease by 1 tier each ingame day with no buying event.

Also :
- dealers don't buy your stuff.

...that kind of ideas...

AKA : what about injecting more adult themes about this subject/matter/phenomenon in CP77 ?

Thoughs ?

Oh, don’t forget that out of all of the gangs in Night City, you can’t cozy up to any of them.

 

[Fredasa]

The inhalers are drugs. They just happen to be a kind of universally accepted drug. It's why I make sure never to use them (and really, really wish the game wouldn't re-equip them when I unequip). Stimpaks in Fallout are the same way—most people aren't aware they're chems, but canonically, they certainly are, even if they get their own category.

 

[Arcafonk]

@Mister_Holdout
Yes, mainly because CP is the first dice and paper RPG to talk openly about (fantasy) drugs. Drugs are a very very common trope in Cyberpunk (see Neuromancer for exemple). This permits to talk about reality themes too (not only in terms of +1 to aim => DO IT or -10% walkspeed => DON'T DO IT).

Because of those 1 dimensional bonuses/maluses, I think the current game is politicaly correct about drugs. This is telling "DO THIS or DON'T DO THIS" in capital letters, whereas the reality is a little more complicated and ask for more finesse.

In Skyrim, Skooma had a good and bad effect at the same time. In MGS, smoking slowly deplete your life, but the smoke lets you see lasers. So you have "this is bad in the long term but it have a useful effect" discourse, which is more adult (and responsable) than "alcool is 100% bad but kids, boosters are always fine !".

Good/bad effects could be delayed there (like irl, with alcool for exemple), and since CP77 have criminality based "events", it could be used to show consequences of the PC's actions.

 

[animalfather]

i would also ask where the sex is, after 50hours i only got to bang a tank.

 

[Arcafonk]

The inhalers are drugs.

Not Johnny's

These are still 1-dimensional, and they fulfill a game purpose. Life the life bar, or the bullet count, it is a necessity for a game.

The way I see this is a little more simulationist / micromaxing than that.

The purpose of that kind of system is (after refining / testing), it should bring the player from "hey, that's cool bonuses" then after toying a little with them "so I can do this and then solve this with this..." then "but wtf, there's consequences ?" then "i should stop" then "...but I won't have cool XP bonuses..." then "damn it's hard to stop" then "wtf i killed them, why they repop ?" then either embrace it or not.

OR

Never touch it, so never have problems.

In any case, this create a new dilemna.

 

[Avalonica]

Why sex and drugs are so regulated in this game is because Communist China (mostly). Yes, Communist China under Xi Jinping's ledership might have concentration camps, organ harvesting factories, weaponized Covid-19, factories with actual slave labor and such, but... there is "harmony". I am surprised that CDPR even managed (despite censorship) to actually sell the game in mainland China. Probably the fact that Japanese are portrayed so badly in the game was a major factor. Communist Chinese just love to piss on the Japanese despite it's their own communist regime that is the great evil of today.

 

[tavellone]

I figure they just didn't want to design a system that dealt with status effects on a complex level, that or it was ripped out.

And please stop saying 'politcally correct' because you think it was removed for some sort of ethical reason or as a creative decision, it makes you look like a gibbering pea brain, that clearly wasn't the case because there are multiple references to and depictions of drug use in the game, there's even and advertisment for speed for god's sake. It's in the fucking sky.

 

[Shriex]

I figured the health potions I snort several times per encounter were drugs. Plus, there's booze.

 

[JC_Denton_86]

Alcohol consumption.

There's also a whole mission about taking out a drug plant that produces "glitter", which is heavily implied to be so nasty V would never touch it.

Also, I see several npcs on the ground in a drug-induced daze.

You could also say that the meds V uses to heal his/herself are drugs, especially due to the fact they are taken with a fast acting inhaler, if you wanna get technical.

EDIT: I'm not sure how dark a game has to get before it isn't called "politically correct" these days.

 

[SidTheUndying]

There's no good drugs, just bad drugs and "medicine". lol
Blame the average player. If people can't handle some pixilated boobs or violence do you really think they're mature enough for realistic drug consequences.

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

 

[Bladerj]

The inhalers are drugs. They just happen to be a kind of universally accepted drug. It's why I make sure never to use them (and really, really wish the game wouldn't re-equip them when I unequip). Stimpaks in Fallout are the same way—most people aren't aware they're chems, but canonically, they certainly are, even if they get their own category.

bullshit, without inhaler you die in 5 minutes.

 

[Arcafonk]

@JC_Denton_86
In CP77, those drugs are for supervillains. In the dice and paper rpg, drugs are not (only) for supervillains, and they sure have a negative effect. Those character have to supply themselves to supervillains, or their acquaintances.

Regarding the medkits, I disagree for the reasons told before : they don't exist in dnp cp, and they are a necessity for a fonctional game.

You have 3 solutions to depict this in a game :
- "only good effect", this is telling "hey kids, DO DRUGS !"
- "only bad effect", this is telling "hey kids, DRUGS ARE FOR LOSERS ! Underground mercenary assassins never do drugs, mkay ?" aka sex, drugs and rock'n roll.
- dual effects, with one exemple with the proposed solution. This is telling "hey kids, THINK". Which is more immersive than "let's sell all my alcool anyway" or "damn I want to stop breezing for 1800 seconds, let's buy 1 drug, yay, free as a dolphin ! never ever to deal with any consequence ! let's eat these mario mushrooms again, always good !".

---

Another mision figures a talk between 2 dealers about glitter, in logs. To face supply problems, they mixed neon tube glass with drug, so snorting it would make their client bleed from the nose and it accel the effect + dillute the drug it self.

 

[Valethaar]

Apparently the only drug of any import is nicotine. In the world of CB2077, it seems like everyone and their dogs fleas are tobacco fiends.

 

[JC_Denton_86]

@JC_Denton_86
In CP77, those drugs are for supervillains. In the dice and paper rpg, drugs are not (only) for supervillains, and they sure have a negative effect. Those character have to supply themselves to supervillains, or their acquaintances.

Regarding the medkits, I disagree for the reasons told before : they don't exist in dnp cp, and they are a necessity for a fonctional game.

You have 3 solutions to depict this in a game :
- "only good effect", this is telling "hey kids, DO DRUGS !"
- "only bad effect", this is telling "hey kids, DRUGS ARE FOR LOSERS ! Underground mercenary assassins never do drugs, mkay ?" aka sex, drugs and rock'n roll.
- dual effects, with one exemple with the proposed solution. This is telling "hey kids, THINK". Which is more immersive than "let's sell all my alcool anyway" or "damn I want to stop breezing for 1800 seconds, let's buy 1 drug, yay, free as a dolphin ! never ever to deal with any consequence ! let's eat these mario mushrooms again, always good !".

---

Another mision figures a talk between 2 dealers about glitter, in logs. To face supply problems, they mixed neon tube glass with drug, so snorting it would make their client bleed from the nose and it accel the effect + dillute the drug it self.

V and Judy smoke during their sex scene. It's basically forced on you if you want a Judy romance. You can get absolutely hammered throughout the game, even during dialogue in important missions where it might not be such a great idea to get sloshed. Although I agree with your assessment that "drugs are for villains" (they actually wanted to give Avatar an R rating because Sigourney Weaver's character smoked and was a protagonist, so that's actual proof) I don't think Cyberpunk shyed away from drugs and alcohol too much. Johnny Silverhand is a sex and booze fiend. Not to mention the advertisements. They could have went further of course, by allowing the player as V to experiment with narcotics, but decided not to. I don't think it was a result of some concerted effort to keep it out of the game. Skyrim let you take skooma and moon sugar. It was probably just another mechanic they didn't have time to add or didn't think it was that important.

 

[Arcafonk]

@JC_Denton_86

They could have went further of course, by allowing the player as V to experiment with narcotics

Oh, they allow the player to do drugs. There is that dealer in Jig-Jig street, selling those 3 boosters.

All those items gives (very niche) bonuses without any maluses. All alcool items gives you maluses without any bonuses.
This is saying "pills > straigth > alcool".

- The player transports 3 barrels of alcoolic beverage permanently that have no purpose and could be switch (at the moment) from food & drink items where they polute the tab with 30 times the same effect to junk item, since the ony good use for them is to a/ sell them by painfuly sorting your eat & food stuff or b/ dismount them (to get common junk, yay).
- actually, the alcool only acts as booby trap in case you select the wrong item. In what simulation of the world you have that kind of lame excuse, or rant : "I accidently the wrong bottle so now I'm drunk for 30s".
- This also create a gamedesign dissonance with Johnny's life. As a narrative element, they are just decorative. There is no reason to think around drugs or alcool as the player, the game choose for you : do pills and never do alcool. This is childish. It would be the same problem with bonus on pills & alcool because the game would ask to not think there : positive => do it, negative => don't. Those elements should be a mix of good and bad.

What I try to propose is incentives (instant bonuses, long term XP) and consequences (health/criminality/finance/bad trips through random effects of alcool, it could cost rep too since you level max in rep very early) about that complicated matter irl.
Addiction through the bonus of XP is, here, a "soft leash" playing in synergy with the min/max desire of the player.

I just say the game could be a little more subtle there.