Cyberpunk 2077 and the Oculus Rift

[chriswebb2020.736]

In lithuania maybe, but for the western world, it's not. Obviously it depends on one's situation but it remains very affordable.

I'm in the UK and as far as I am concerned £200, (whcih is fairly close to $300,) is a hell of a lot of money to spend on what equates to a toy. I don't need it, it can't feed my family and I sure as hell can't make money from it. It's a toy. I have better things to use that money, (which equates to about 22.5% of my monthly earnings, before tax,) such as food, reant, electricity, gas, water rates, council tax, transportation fees,

I think you are grossly overestimating the buying power of the average person.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

I'm in the UK and as far as I am concerned £200, (whcih is fairly close to $300,) is a hell of a lot of money to spend on what equates to a toy. I don't need it, it can't feed my family and I sure as hell can't make money from it. It's a toy. I have better things to use that money, (which equates to about 22.5% of my monthly earnings, before tax,) such as food, reant, electricity, gas, water rates, council tax, transportation fees,

I think you are grossly overestimating the buying power of the average person.

One person's story is hardly representative of western society as a whole.

The fact remains that in spite of their price modern consoles have become a common household item achieving 56% penetration in the US. If you narrow it down and cut the demographics that are not likely to want one in the first place (e.g. empty nests) the picture is a lot more positive.

Smartphone penetration is around 64% in the US, and their (real) prices are about the same. Young adults and teens are surprisingly the highest.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tristanlouis/2013/09/14/the-real-cost-of-a-smartphone/

The challenges surrounding the OR is not financial but cultural. It seems to me there is an emotional barrier against it in some gaming circles. I see the OR as the hardware equivalent as the introduction of Doom. The creation of a new genre, raw but unpolished whose conventions are yet to be defined.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Consoles have indeed permeated just about every western household. But they have multiple uses, (play music, dvds, etc,) and the price band is far from £200, he'll I can nip up the toad and pick up a 360 for about £60. Bug difference.

But that wasn'ty point. My point was that VRI gaming would require the abandonment of conventional consoles and gaming platforms leaving little or no integration with other games. This is one of the reasons I don't see the OR becoming 'the' standard by which other gaming platforms are measured for quite some time.

 

[Sardukhar]

Ye--ah..it took consoles years to get that fairly unverified market penetration. Consoles can play movies, run TV shows, play music, host your pictures and play games.

The OC is a toy. For $300, I'm not getting one. It's not practical for work, unlike my 30 inch monitor. it can't make all games better, unlike my graphics card.

It's even more niche than a high-end graphics cars, I would say.


Of course, once it's widely adopted, perhaps the price will come done. I could see swinging $150 for one.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

The OC is a toy. For $300, I'm not getting one. It's not practical for work, unlike my 30 inch monitor. it can't make all games better, unlike my graphics card.

It's even more niche than a high-end graphics cars, I would say.


Of course, once it's widely adopted, perhaps the price will come done. I could see swinging $150 for one.

Just because you will use it exclusively as a toy, does not mean that others will necessarily follow suit.

There are many ways that it could be adapted for work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNqs_S-zEBY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQEcHRqoGEA

If a more refined version of this surface

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-pGCpl2PE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29GKP7mgUqU
http://www.roadtovr.com/ibex-virtual-reality-desktop-environment-mac-beta-windows/#more-2260

If it is comfortable enough, I might get the OR for that alone.

What kind of specs do you think you will need to run TW3 and CP77?
You could do your office work on a 7 years old Pentium(heck I have at one point, I am that cheap), go on youtube and watch your movies too. I would surmise that most of the population does not need anything more powerful then this (plus maybe a backup USB just in case the thing crashes, but I still have Pentium 4s that are in perfect working conditions). Anything extra is by definition used for play time (hence a toy).

It would cost me far far more to upgrade my system to play these two then to buy an OR and just start playing Team Fortress 2 and Half Life 2 with it. I haven't had a gaming computer for a long long while now.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

poet, no one is saying it isn't an amazing device capable of astounding things. But how many people are going to use it for watching a movie with their friends or family? Because of the complete sensory immersion it also requires much more attention.

Try to view it objectively. So far you have shown that you are a heck of a fan but you are yet to even acknowledge any downsides or limitations it may have.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

poet, no one is saying it isn't an amazing device capable of astounding things. But how many people are going to use it for watching a movie with their friends or family? Because of the complete sensory immersion it also requires much more attention.

Try to view it objectively. So far you have shown that you are a heck of a fan but you are yet to even acknowledge any downsides or limitations it may have.

Ah, sorry if I seem a bit(?) pushy.

As I said, I do acknowledge cultural barriers to adoption of new technology, and while I didn't make much of it, I know that it can be a massive one to overcome (believe me, it is almost an omni-present theme in my working life). But it's not the first time though that "hardcore" gamers grumble and complain only to be displaced by the newer generations and it has happened very quickly before.The indie gamer of today is the core gamer of yesterday.

I did acknowledge also the best practices and conventions are still yet to be found. As such, there is a financial risk for developers in pushing the envelope.

As it cannot be used in public space or as you said in a social setting,it will be a hard sell for the casual games market.

So in that sense,the core of my message is not all that different from yours. What is going to make or break the OR is the support from game developpers.

I just don't believe that price is the real barrier of entry. It is oversimplifying the problem. The main selling point of console was never the DVD part else the consoles of the PS1 generation would never have seen the light of day,

 

[227]

I just don't believe that price is the real barrier of entry. It is oversimplifying the problem. The main selling point of console was never the DVD part else the consoles of the PS1 generation would never have seen the light of day,

The Playstation 1 came out in 1995. DVDs came around the same time, though they didn't explode in popularity until around 2000. Incidentally, the PS1 does play CDs, which were popular at the time.

The idea of the OR bothers me. Not because it's not a cool idea (because it is), but because coming out with something that looks less like LeVar Burton's Star Trek shades and more like a softbox strapped to your head doesn't seem like the best way to help the medium gain any respect as a storytelling medium. Kind of sends the wrong message about the priorities of gamers and makes the whole thing even more indefensible against the crazy, "games are just first-person killing simulators" crowd.

Kind of reminds me of the Wiimote, too. A cool idea in theory, but until something like that is universal and accepted across all platforms, most of the games it gets will likely be gimmicky and never realize its full potential (that's from personal experience as a Wii owner). If not even Nintendo and all their money could force motion controls into becoming the standard, I don't see anything like this taking the world by storm anytime soon, either. Especially not at that price point.

 

[Sardukhar]

Yep. The OR strikes me as much more like the wiimote than anything else. An expensive wiimote.

I'm sure we'll have living-room VR immersion eventually, but I doubt it will happen within 20 years.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

The Playstation 1 came out in 1995. DVDs came around the same time, though they didn't explode in popularity until around 2000. Incidentally, the PS1 does play CDs, which were popular at the time.

I didn`t know anyone who used the PS1 or Saturn as such. If parents wanted to play music, they bought a radio. Nowhere was the PS1 or the Sega Saturn explicitly advertised as CD players.

Why would people buy consoles for playing DVDs when there are much cheaper alternatives available (starting witht he PC that they already use for work)?

The idea of the OR bothers me. Not because it's not a cool idea (because it is), but because coming out with something that looks less like LeVar Burton's Star Trek shades and more like a softbox strapped to your head doesn't seem like the best way to help the medium gain any respect as a storytelling medium. Kind of sends the wrong message about the priorities of gamers and makes the whole thing even more indefensible against the crazy, "games are just first-person killing simulators" crowd.

Man,if you think that argument is invincible, you are a really bad debater.

With that attitude, maybe one day video games will have the respectability of I don't know, politically correct graphic novels.

Kind of reminds me of the Wiimote, too. A cool idea in theory, but until something like that is universal and accepted across all platforms, most of the games it gets will likely be gimmicky and never realize its full potential (that's from personal experience as a Wii owner). If not even Nintendo and all their money could force motion controls into becoming the standard, I don't see anything like this taking the world by storm anytime soon, either. Especially not at that price point.

Bypassing the obvious difference between VR and a nunchuk that worked only half the time, the Wiimote never achieved the kind of respectability amongst triple-A developers that the Rift enjoy currently. It also never had the kind of grassroot enthusiasm amongst indies either.

This time, major industry players have come out publicly supporting the Rift. John Carmack and Christ Roberts are amongst them. You have CCP, developer of EVE developing for it as well. So is Valve. So does Epic Games and their Unreal Engine. And the CryEngine. Same with the Unity people. Others such as Microsoft are tacitly supporting it.Both Microsoft and Sony are rumored to develop their own OR alternative and have filed patents that hint to similar designs.

As I said before, once the hardware is deemed to work, it is not a major technical challenge to convert games into an OR-compatible version. These are largely gameplay mechanics that needs to be found.

 

[227]

Why would people buy consoles for playing DVDs when there are much cheaper alternatives available (starting witht he PC that they already use for work)?

Because if you want to play games and watch DVDs, then purchasing something that allows you to do both cuts out the need for another purchase? Because not everyone uses a PC for work? Because not all PCs have DVD players? Because having one device do multiple things means wiring everything up is simpler?

Man,if you think that argument is invincible, you are a really bad debater.

That wasn't an argument. Just a personal irritation, which is why I prefaced it with, "The idea of the OR bothers me." As in, just me, personally. I wish that the industry stopped trying to force the next big shiny thing (3D, motion controls, OR, Ouya, Steam controller) and started focusing on actually making great games that reflected well on the medium. The industry has a serious PR problem, and having strapping a box to your face being hailed as the future probably isn't helping much. Again, not an actual argument against OR. Just an opinion.

Bypassing the obvious difference between VR and a nunchuk that worked only half the time, the Wiimote never achieved the kind of respectability amongst triple-A developers that the Rift enjoy currently. It also never had the kind of grassroot enthusiasm amongst programmers either.

Then it's more reminiscent of the Wii U, which promised tons of third-party support and had quite a bit right out of the gate. Thing is, if the gimmick isn't widely enough accepted, all of that support quickly disappears because there ends up being no money there. Are enough people really going to shell out for a pricey—and if we're honest, completely unnecessary—peripheral to keep it from losing all of that support? Hype has a way of fizzling.

 

[Mikedudeh]

Since when did everyone need to own a OR for it to be considered successful or the future of gaming? Sure it's expensive, sure it's not widely supported by a lot of games, sure it's usefulness is limited, blah blah blah. Same was true for computers in the 60s and TVs in the 40s. Poor/less interested people will pick up the older used ones (like Chris's $60 xbox) as the technology evolves (same goes for cybernetics people!). Maybe it won't happen with the OR and maybe it won't happen in our life time, but VR will be the future of media eventually (probably by 2020 ). All OR really needs is a good profit margin and a bunch of people excited about it (which it has) and in a few years it will be as common as headsets.

 

[azriel77]

Ah, finally able to come back to this thread. Did not mean to start a flame war. Like I said, I have been keeping up with everything oculus related. I was also skeptical when I first heard about it. I mean, we have over 20 years of VR broken promises. However, read some reviews, look up some videos on youtube and watch the reaction of people who tried it on. There is a complete change in attitude once they actually wear it. This is probably a good video to show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJo12Hz_BVI The guy is clearly skeptical as hell and ready to leave, but after trying the rift he changes.

I think people do not understand what is happening. You think you know what 3d is when you play a game on a monitor. No, that is a flat image, there is nothing 3d about it. This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jd3-eiid-Uw#t=149 gives a simple example of the difference. Anyway, when you put on the rift, YOU ARE IN THE GAME WORLD. I am not exaggerating. I have seen video after video of reactions, and people say mostly the same thing, the first is "You can't understand unless you try it on" and "I feel like I am really here". I have been researching this for a while and I really do not think it will be a gimmick or a fad.

I also want to point out that oculus said they want to get the rift out to as many people as possible, so they will try and keep the rift as cheap as possible, to make it the same as the dev kit ($300) OR CHEAPER. A final price has not been given yet.

On a side note, even before the oculus, I was hoping the game would be in first person view. The RPG books had you getting crazy eye tech as enhancements, I want to see cool hud dispays (in first person) and stuff through my cybernetic eye implants. I do not mind having a third person view as an option, but I really want a first person view to more immerse myself. Anybody play vampire the masquerade? That was first person (although you can change to 3rd), and it was wonderful. The world felt alive and real. Regardless of the rift, I hope the game has first person view.

With that, I hope the devs can try out the new 1080p rift demo's to see what the buzz is about or find someone who has a rift to let them try it out. I really think this is the future of gaming (and many other things), and think adding rift support would make the game even more amazing.

One more side note, adding rift support will not hurt the game, you can still play it on a regular monitor, but if you have a rift, it will be a hundred (thousand?) times better.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I don't believe anyone is saying that the OR, or VR in general, is not the future of gaming. I am sure it will become the industry standard. I just don't see it happening within the next 8 or 10 years. Maybe longer.

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

I don't believe anyone is saying that the OR, or VR in general, is not the future of gaming. I am sure it will become the industry standard. I just don't see it happening within the next 8 or 10 years. Maybe longer.

Yes. The timeframe is the core of disagreement.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but it really only takes one breakthrough to change the industry. Doom single-handledly killed the adventure game genre and moved the gaming demographics away to a younger generation of gamers in 2-3 years. By the mid 90s, the genre was dying and no major adventure titles were made in the early 2000s. In some ways, the OR is less groundbreaking then the advent of 3D and face lesser challenges.

As any good salesperson will tell you, it is harder to sell to a virgin market then a mature one. The reason being that in the former you have to educate the populace about the value of the product.

You could run the first fallout who came out in 1997 with a Pentium 1 that came out in 1993. You could run starcraft on the same PC. Now comes the 3d FPS and you had to spend 500$ (VERY conservative figure) every two years minimum to keep abreast with the changes. Back then also, video games were nowhere near as mainstream as they are today. I think that the benefits of the OR are more immediately obvious then a high-end graphics card was back then.

There are many many ways that the marketing and cultural problems can be attacked head on. The hardcore gaming market (a minority that is exceedingly conservative and hard to please) could be bypassed completely in favor of the indie one. It shouldn't take 10 years to resolve them.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. Time will tell.

 

[Sardukhar]

Hey, I hope Poet and the OR guys are right and this is the wave of the future, not some expensive toy. After all, I plan to buy one eventually and the sooner it is accepted, the better. I'm just not budgeting for it anytime soon.


Now, if CDPR did include support, as I suggested months ago here and then linked to the OR thread on their forums suggesting it to the OR guys, great! I -will- be an early adopter!

But I sincerely doubt my mother or wife will use it, unlike a PS3, and that's a key component of high market penetration: getting the casuals interested.

 

[dragonbird]

I hope Poet is right, but I think Chris will be right.

It may be important, but it'll be the groundbreaker. The early-adopters will buy it, and it'll probably be a financial success (assuming it works), but I don't think it'll really take off until the second round , when the big companies decide to jump in.

 

[Sardukhar]

You know what I think will really influence things? Google Glasses. If they become widely accepted and seen in everyday use, other goggle-related apps like VR will be on the way.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

On a side note you can pre-order OR in Finland with mere 999,99€. Ok yeah they propably pulled that figure from donkey's ass but still

And was it week ago ago when developer said he can use OR now 45minutes before feeling sick, when before it was 15minutes. Sounds enjoyable