Developers like CDPR show us why modding communities are so badly needed

[ElsonsoJannus]

Modders while a necessary evil, should be unnecessary.

If we demanded better games and stopped paying for and playing unfinished games and giving great scores to games with great marketting with game play that games 10 years older did better because it's expected, then they'd have no choice but to give us great games.

Well, I think that the main problem is that the studios see a demand for pretty games. I guess, specifically, "we" want pretty games, with next gen high resolution graphics, FPS through the roof, awesome animations, and fast paced action. To that, players add that it has to be that way when running on a limping potato.

If players demanded next gen graphics, the best stories, uncompromising QoL features, and top notch quality, all at the same price, many studios would probably just fold.

A moddable game, with good support from the studio, is the only way to get the game that people really want.

 

[MaxPrimal]

I have never used a mod in any game in over 40 years of gaming. I guess it is because they aren't neccessary to me and im patient.

 

[halofreak1990]

To add, one of Sony's policies does not allow Mods
I don't know how it is with Xbox
Bethesda has an official category of Featured and Reviewed Mods simplifying installation without the need for Mod Manager and other tools, very limited but surely they are all compatible with each other.

Xbox allows mods, as long as they're within certain disk space and feature constraints. There's at least one Bethesda game on Xbox with limited mod support.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

What about us who don't have PCs??
I bought a series X to play this game.. we need CDPR to add actual content. There's zero hope of mod capabilities on console

Yep I'm in the same console boat and as such even if PC players experience is salvaged through mods, we'll be left in the middle of the ocean screaming at the sky and flapping our oars angrily. Hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Marquis_deShade]

Yep I'm in the same console boat and as such even if PC players experience is salvaged through mods, we'll be left in the middle of the ocean screaming at the sky and flapping our oars angrily. Hope it doesn't come to that.

There's precedent for Mods access on consoles with some other games.
It's not impossible.
A widget could get got added to the main game launch screen. Mods to get curated with ample disclaimer that modding CAN break the game and cause instability ... use at own risk.

It's not unheard of and it's not impossible.

I suspect CDPR is diverting human assets from other projects ... if they have any other projects, to throw more workers at this less-than-smooth launch. I just wish they would realize how much pressure the modding community could take off of them with thousands of distracting optional add-ons and a "free" workforce constantly adding more ... so official CDPR folks can focus on the more mission-critical areas of smoothing out the rough bits of this launch.

 

[Myajha]

Yep I'm in the same console boat and as such even if PC players experience is salvaged through mods, we'll be left in the middle of the ocean screaming at the sky and flapping our oars angrily. Hope it doesn't come to that.

Part of the problem of why we got the game that we got is because of consoles. I'm not blaming consoles, I'm blaming the developers. They extended their reach too far to try and cater to Sony and Microsoft and Google, by watering down the PC experience. Heck they didn't just try and cater to Sony, past tense, they still are bending over for Sony.

That's the problem here. Overextension of resources lead to a game that was watered down on PC and barely working on consoles. They did this because they knew they could leave the modders to make the game that was supposed to happen when it was only really a PC game, while trying to fix the mess they made on the consoles. It was a calculated risk, one that seems to be paying off for them if the sales are to be believed, the only kink was that Sony wasn't happy (and are they ever really happy) and pulled it from the store.

So the fact that console players will be left out to dry, while harsh, isn't something I'm too worried about per say, since it was the devs desire to bend over for the console market that lead to the mess we're in. Sucks for the players, I'll admit that, but continuing to extend resources that don't exist to cater to everyone won't fix the problem, since that was the problem to begin with.

 

[lelxrv]

Modding communities exist regardless of state of a game. People just love tinkering with stuff. We shouldn't rely on modders, especially console people and purist guys like me, who rarely do mods.

 

[Keldrif]

I get not everyone wants to spend time collecting and installing mods and some just plain can't get them anyways that's why the unmodded version should at the very least be playable feels bad for us PC players must be awful on console. I guess the positive is modders can kind of give us a little preview of what might be possible in the future and some idea of how long some of these things will take with zero tools and little prior knowledge of the modders have already dug up quite a bit and are getting an idea of what's under the hood. If they can get things done that fast CDPR should be able to blow their minor fixes out of the water. If not CDPR can just copy the modders fixes into the real game lol I'm sure that never happens and nobody talks about it

 

[Marquis_deShade]

They did this because they knew they could leave the modders to make the game that was supposed to happen when it was only really a PC game

I don't think so. I disagree.
1. Consoles, at least right now, do NOT benefit from Modders ... so, Modders do ZERO for Console folks
2. Modding is severely restricted right now ... so, there's not really very much modders can do other than some clothing swappers, a some visual changes, and basically ... not much. Still, they're trying, and trying heroically, because modder gonna mod.

If the actual logic at CDPR was "Let Modders fix it" ... Modding would NOT be so locked down and restricted ... AND ... ther would be access to mods with a widget set up for console users.

"the "Let Modders fix it" thing just doesn't track, and trying to sell the idea that you can read minds and that's what folks in CDPR are thinking is dirty pool, and unacceptable.

 

[Myajha]

"the "Let Modders fix it" thing just doesn't track, and trying to sell the idea that you can read minds and that's what folks in CDPR are thinking is dirty pool, and unacceptable.

Would it have been better had I put "I suspect" in front of it, like you did? Fine I suspect they figured they'd let the modders fix it.

So lets go into why. The management has said they already knew the game wasn't finished when they released it. Mind you they tried to put the blame on QA, but they admit they knew, and that they were at fault for releasing the game in the state it is in.

Now why would they do that? Money, either it was running out, or they wanted to boost their bottom line before their annual reports came out.

Now what went through their minds when they did that, I don't know I don't read minds, but I suspect (is that more acceptable so you don't think I'm playing dirty pool) they did so figuring they'd make the initial cash surge for this years financial statements, and use the patching process to fix the bugs necessary for the 6 more months it needed to be ready. (The 6 is what I remember them saying in one of their statements, I may be off, just so you don't think I'm reading minds again. Got to be careful, don't want you to think I'm playing dirty pool and being unacceptable.)

Now one of the reasons they probably thought they could buy some time was simply modders. They knew they'd put a band-aide on PC, allowing them to divert some resources to the consoles from the PC.

*CDPR-style disclaimer: The above is an opinion. Anyone who thinks it is me reading minds may be incorrect. Opinion may change at launch.

 

[Keldrif]

The management has said they already knew the game wasn't finished when they released it.

Wasn't finished? I think the quote was something like "they thought the issues would be fixed by launch" meaning the games done but there are more bugs in the final product than expected, remember they thought they would be releasing dlc by now did we watch the same video?

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Modders are the only reason I didn't refund. From the first timer who made his/her first bolt to the veterans who basically make a new game their all a different kind of underappreciated amazing.

 

[Atletikus]

[LOTS OF SPOILERS AHEAD]

There's no real point to this thread other than to acknowledge the people who know how to make mods that are allowing us to bypass the many, many issues this game has. Being able to spawn in Jackie's iconic weapon if you sent his body to the wrong place, being able to change Skippy back to lethal mode or even spawn in a second Skippy so we can complete Regina's quest and still have Skippy on our weapon wall or use it, being able to spawn in the epic version of synaptic accelerator cyberware that is mysteriously completely missing from the game, being able to force complete and remove broken quests from the game, being able to remove the quest tags from gear so it can be stored in our apartment or sold.

Modders fix the issues these developers give us I am very greatful to those people. You're the real MVPs and you saved my experience in CP2077.

I agree modding makes games better. Oftentimes more unstable and buggy (if that's even possible), but better!

...then you proceed to mention a whole lot of scenarios that are about ROLEPLAYING choices and consequences as needing to be fixed by mods because you apparently have it in your head you need everything perfect...in a futuristic dystopia lol. Even though your perceived fixes for broken content, objectively contributes to breaking combat even further by making it even less challenging.

But that is the good thing about modding, it is modular, so you can eventually pick and choose how you want to change the game. One person would like more overpowered items, another to be more challenged in combat by better AI and more balanced items/abilities. At least one good thing to be thankful to CDPR for is their support of the modding community, as much as you would like it to be "us against them".

 

[Marquis_deShade]

Would it have been better had I put "I suspect" in front of it, like you did? Fine I suspect they figured they'd let the modders fix it.

So lets go into why. The management has said they already knew the game wasn't finished when they released it. Mind you they tried to put the blame on QA, but they admit they knew, and that they were at fault for releasing the game in the state it is in.

Now why would they do that? Money, either it was running out, or they wanted to boost their bottom line before their annual reports came out.

Now what went through their minds when they did that, I don't know I don't read minds, but I suspect (is that more acceptable so you don't think I'm playing dirty pool) they did so figuring they'd make the initial cash surge for this years financial statements, and use the patching process to fix the bugs necessary for the 6 more months it needed to be ready. (The 6 is what I remember them saying in one of their statements, I may be off, just so you don't think I'm reading minds again. Got to be careful, don't want you to think I'm playing dirty pool and being unacceptable.)

Now one of the reasons they probably thought they could buy some time was simply modders. They knew they'd put a band-aide on PC, allowing them to divert some resources to the consoles from the PC.

*CDPR-style disclaimer: The above is an opinion. Anyone who thinks it is me reading minds may be incorrect. Opinion may change at launch.

Your reasoning behind initial cash surges is alittle flawed. Significant sales of CP 2077 were pre-order. They ALREADY HAD THE MONEY.

I'm not going to pretend I know the whys and what behind the game's state of release other than understanding that CDPR was likely under enormous pressures to release, not only from investors with $1 Million or more sunk into the company, but, also likely pre-sales legal agreements in the small print (basically, "you buy now, and we deliver at X range of time"), plus legal agreements with other big companies, like Sony, to launch in a specific target window, with likely financial enforcements in place if they didn't deliver in an agreed window.

There's a ton of moving parts here. It's not just CDPR execs sitting around cooking up ways to upset the gaming community. They could very well have had their hands tied and were already on paper rails forcing them to launch.

Right now, they're doing everything they can to manage all the things. I'm pretty sure they have a very serious understanding of what's what right now, and they're not just sitting around in some boardroom smoking cigars planning golf vacations and corpo team-building retreats in the Swiss Alps, or on the Cote d'Azur to sip fuzzy drinks made out gamer tears and money.

If the logic of "Let Modders Fix It" was even close to a thing, Modding would not be so restricted and locked down right now. Modding "support" right now is barely a nod of lip service to the modding community. Thus, there's basically zero evidence to support any claim that "Let Modders Fix It" was an idea even on the same planet. If anything, evidence would support the notion that modding "support" is, and has been one of the furthest things from their minds in any decisions.

 

[Tubit]

There's precedent for Mods access on consoles with some other games.
It's not impossible.
A widget could get got added to the main game launch screen. Mods to get curated with ample disclaimer that modding CAN break the game and cause instability ... use at own risk.

It's not unheard of and it's not impossible.

I suspect CDPR is diverting human assets from other projects ... if they have any other projects, to throw more workers at this less-than-smooth launch. I just wish they would realize how much pressure the modding community could take off of them with thousands of distracting optional add-ons and a "free" workforce constantly adding more ... so official CDPR folks can focus on the more mission-critical areas of smoothing out the rough bits of this launch.

Given what we've seen of CDPR's attitude in the past, I'd say that they're more likely to appreciate the value of modding than most. They obviously have their hands full fixing the more fundamental issues of the game right now, though. I suspect they'll have to carefully weigh and decide which actions to take for quite some time. And as some already mentioned, not only for PC, but on a multiplatform basis.

 

[GrimReaper801]

Can't say I agree with the title.

Not because I don't think CDPR doesn't need modders but because I think every game should be fully moddable

So many possibilities.

 

[alphamachina]

Given what we've seen of CDPR's attitude in the past, I'd say that they're more likely to appreciate the value of modding than most. They obviously have their hands full fixing the more fundamental issues of the game right now, though. I suspect they'll have to carefully weigh and decide which actions to take for quite some time. And as some already mentioned, not only for PC, but on a multiplatform basis.

This didn't age well. Modding support from CDPR for Cyberpunk 2077 is still atrocious and utterly lacking in almost every way. The only reason we have much in the way of modding for Cyberpunk is NOT because of RedMod, but because of amazing coders like psiberx, yamashi, wopss, and jac3km4 doing a lot of work for this game for FREE.

They brought us the likes of CET, TweakXL, ArchiveXL, Red4ext, Redscript, etc. without which modding for Cyberpunk 2077 would be at a standstill. 95% of the mods made for this game rely on their work to function. CDPR has done very little to accommodate modding in this game. We still can't mod in-game player animations, can barely functionally mod for sound effects and other BASIC, minimal necessities for modding any game.

It took the WolvenKit team (an open-source program made by a bunch of great people for FREE) joining CDPR in order to necessitate what little modding support this game does have, and it's still a joke to this day, years later.

CDPR managed to recently make this game even somewhat resemble what it should have looked like at release years ago, and they're lauded for that as if it's some grand accomplishment. No, man. It's the bare minimum of an acceptable way to do business: providing a functional and worthwhile product. Only took them 3 years. Modders were promised SO much more support than this for Cyberpunk, but CDPR gave up on that too.

 

[vinnyr011001]

This didn't age well. Modding support from CDPR for Cyberpunk 2077 is still atrocious and utterly lacking in almost every way. The only reason we have much in the way of modding for Cyberpunk is NOT because of RedMod, but because of amazing coders like psiberx, yamashi, wopss, and jac3km4 doing a lot of work for this game for FREE.

They brought us the likes of CET, TweakXL, ArchiveXL, Red4ext, Redscript, etc. without which modding for Cyberpunk 2077 would be at a standstill. 95% of the mods made for this game rely on their work to function. CDPR has done very little to accommodate modding in this game. We still can't mod in-game player animations, can barely functionally mod for sound effects and other BASIC, minimal necessities for modding any game.

It took the WolvenKit team (an open-source program made by a bunch of great people for FREE) joining CDPR in order to necessitate what little modding support this game does have, and it's still a joke to this day, years later.

CDPR managed to recently make this game even somewhat resemble what it should have looked like at release years ago, and they're lauded for that as if it's some grand accomplishment. No, man. It's the bare minimum of an acceptable way to do business: providing a functional and worthwhile product. Only took them 3 years. Modders were promised SO much more support than this for Cyberpunk, but CDPR gave up on that too.

Agree wholeheartedly, especially since they totally gave up on ever making this game functional for last gen consoles, which was a fool's errand to begin with. It was a lie that could only be rectified via refund and is true to this day.

If the game was supposed to be focused towards PC adding actual modding support seems natural, but I don't see that happening ever. Maybe, maybe, for Project Orion and even then, I have serious doubts.

I just had to laugh, even the button for the topic of mods is in a smaller box with a smaller font size, placed awkwardly. Perfectly demonstrates CDPR's ethos as it relates to mods, a clunky afterthought only there by popular demand. Sad.

 

[Draconifors]

I just had to laugh, even the button for the topic of mods is in a smaller box with a smaller font size, placed awkwardly.

You do realize it means absolutely nothing except that it's a sub forum?

By your logic, the game's quests are of minor importance to CDPR:

 

[Sardukhar]

Necro'd an old thread to complain about CDPR and how bad they are. Nothing new or constructive. No, thanks. Locked.