This is just me, but if they gonna present us some DLCs, I wish the first one is about V finding a cure, or something like what Bioware did for Mass Effect 3 with The Citadel DLC. The endings were so depressing that at least they gifted us with a wholesome DLC to spend some time with our friends before getting into biz again, and it has been one of the fandom favorites.
As much as I love Keanu Reeves and liked Johnny, I really want a break from him. The original project was all about V before they injected Johnny in and doubled his lines when Keanu requested it, so yeah... more V please.
As much as I love Keanu Reeves and liked Johnny, I really want a break from him. The original project was all about V before they injected Johnny in and doubled his lines when Keanu requested it, so yeah... more V please.
I didn't know that, I would have thought that before Keanu arrived in the project, there would have simply been an "unknow" Johnny with certainly a few lines of dialogue less (in short, the same story or almost, with simply, a little less dialogue lines). But I'm probably wrong
Johnny's last dialogue line : "Never stop Fighting". So all isn't lost.
I must admit that it would be vicious from CDPR if the way to save V was in a paid DLC and planned from the start
I didn't know that, I would have thought that before Keanu arrived in the project, there would have simply been an "unknow" Johnny with certainly a few lines of dialogue less (in short, the same story or almost, with simply, a little less dialogue lines). But I'm probably wrong
I don't know if it would have been an "unknown" Johnny, after all Johnny Silverhand is a character from the original tabletop. But the articles I read in the past said that Keanu got so enthusiastic with Cyberpunk he convinced CDPR to double his lines and involvement in the story. I've also read that since its development, the original game changed its base story three times. That would explain why some missions or people seem to be incomplete, or why some of the things shown in the first trailer changed slightly (T-Bug originally teaming up with Dex to kill you, or making Meredith Stout one of the initial poster child of the game, but then finding out she only shows up twice).
It seems they thought Keanu's presence would help them sold the game, and if what the articles say its true, they sacrificed the original story to fit him around him... and I honestly dunno how to feel about that.
As for your DLC comment, I agree on that. If that ever happens, I hope is one of the free DLCs they promised
but like I mentioned here somewhere, Fallout 3 had a similar situation. You only get the ideal happy ending if you buy the Broken Steel DLC.
It could be explain by : "to try to not spoil all of the game in the trailer"
Nope, that's wrong, probably from "journalists" informed on "reddit"
Adding some dialogue lines, yes certainly. Adding a bike (ARCH), yes absolutely. Modifying a little the story, yes maybe.
But modifying the whole story for Keanu, I'm quite sure, it's totally wrong... If Keanu was not there, V would still have a rockerboy/terrorist in his head, have some Relic's malfunction and would always die in the end.
Yep, it's vicious. I hope CDPR wouldn't do that (even if finally, I will buy it anyway...)As for your DLC comment, I agree on that. If that ever happens, I hope is one of the free DLCs they promised
I didn't know that, I would have thought that before Keanu arrived in the project, there would have simply been an "unknow" Johnny with certainly a few lines of dialogue less (in short, the same story or almost, with simply, a little less dialogue lines). But I'm probably wrong
Officially, what we know is that the original story had a "major change" in direction around the time Reeves got more deeply involved with the project. What the impact of that deeper involvement entailed, we may never really know. But at the time, I believe his role was already baked in. He simply requested more involvement, and CDPR jumped on the chance.
But the MASSIVE plot holes it created are quite..... perplexing to say the least:
According to Johnny, Alt lit V up with SoulKiller the second he entered Mikoshi. So V is now an engram. Why couldn't V's engram be written to a new chip that Johnny could slip into a new, unsuspecting host victim, that he could then shoot in the head? He certainly seemed like the type to do that to someone he didn't give a shit about to save "a friend". Alternatively, when Alt lit up V with SoulKiller, why was there no option for BOTH of them to go with Alt? Johnny apparently wanted to (and was at that point separated from the chip), and V would inevitably die in 6 months anyway. So why not? If Alt came up with a solution later, perhaps they BOTH could have another shot.
The way they ended things no matter what ending you chose is going to take some SERIOUSLY creative writing to overcome.
The only alternative I see (and I posted this as a suggestion a while back), is to start everyone in an expansion at "the point of no return", right before you go into Embers, and the expansion focuses on a path for V to save him/herself. The DLC stuff is going to be small, and will likely not add any "endgame" content beyond a few expansive pre-Embers quests, and some gigs, weapons, clothes, etc.. None of the DLC content can impact the base game endings if they intend to tell a "continuing story". So the point of no return is the only sensible point they could "continue" from, because it's the only common denominator among all players.
I have probably a little explanation
(From dialogues with Viktor, Hellman...)
The V's relic is an unic version of bioship (prototype) created only for Saburo's use and there is not other one in good state anywhere... So no Relic available to transfer V consciousness...
The only possible receptacle is V's body (modified to accommodate Johnny):
- Either V goes back in the body, V dies within 6 months (like with whatever random body...)
- Either Johnny goes back there, Johnny lives.
Seem simple to me and there is no major "plot hole" for me
Edit (dialogue lines - right time) :
Viktor
Hellman
Last edited:
I have probably a little explanation
(From dialogues with Viktor, Hellman...)
The V's relic is an unic version of bioship (prototype) created only for Saburo's use and there is not other one in good state anywhere... So no Relic available to transfer V consciousness...
The only possible receptacle is V's body (modified to accommodate Johnny):
- Either V goes back in the body, V dies within 6 months (like with whatever random body...)
- Either Johnny goes back there, Johnny lives.
Seem simple to me and there is no major "plot hole" for me
Except that neither Viktor OR Hellman really know anything about it (Hellman himself confirms this in the Motel when he tells V that it was still in the trial phase). It's not the prototype chip made for Saburo. Saburo slots that chip (which you presumed doesn't exist) into his own son later. It's the chip the Silverhand engram was written to 50 years earlier. Which is why the VooDoo boys want to use it to get to Alt. Why would Saburo want to slot in the chip containing the very essence of the person who tried to destroy his empire? Why would he even risk using it in ANY subject at all? And why wait 50 years to test a completed prototype already containing an engram?
Like I said..... plot hole.
In the Devil ending, where Saburo still in Mikoshi ("alive") and where Alt don't destroy Mikoshi and Johnny is simply deleted... It's not the same "story" as the Sun/The Star/Secret ending...
Nope Johnny was "stored" in Mikoshi during 50 years, not on the Relic... It's only Yorinobu who stoll the Relic (a prototype only devolloped for Saburo and knowed by only a very few poeple in Arasaka even Hellman know a "little" about this version of the Relic) and put Johnny on it for sell the both to Netwatch (or something like that, no detail on the transaction)...
Sorry, like I said, no plot hole at all
Last edited:
In the Devil ending, where Saburo still in Mikoshi ("alive") and where Alt don't destroy Mikoshi and Johnny is simply deleted... It's not the same "story" as the Sun/The Star/Secret ending...
Nope Johnny was "stored" in Mikoshi during 50 years, not on the Relic... It's only Yorinobu who stoll the Relic (a prototype only devolloped for Saburo and knowed by only a very few poeple in Arasaka even Hellman know a "little" about this version of the Relic) and put Johnny on it for sell the both to Netwatch (or something like that, no detail on the transaction)...
Sorry, like I said, no plot hole at all
And here, you're ignoring your own admission of "versions" of the Relic to try to prove your point. Without an engram on the "trial phase" Relic, there could be no trial phase in which to test anything (which Hellman confirms was already underway when he left). Again..... plot hole. Because in EVERY playthrough, the events leading up to ANY ending are always the same. Whether or not Johnny's engram was written to V's version of the Relic 50 years, 50 days, or 50 hours ago, makes no difference. Other versions already exist by Hellman's own admission.
Care to try again? I got one for EVERY ending. I've played through them all. Some, more than once.
Which will inevitably bring us full circle to the suggestion I made earlier. Start everyone in any "continuing story" at the same point of no return before going into Embers. Otherwise, it can make no sense.
As you want, I let you see your "plot holes", I don't bother anyway. For me there isn't, that's all
As you want, I let you see your "plot holes", I don't bother anyway. For me there isn't, that's all
And that's cool. Believe what you want. Right or wrong, everyone is entitled that
As possible as the moon falling out of the sky by morning my friend.
Possible? Sure. Will it? Not likely
Well. You can piece together the reason why V's engram can't be put on a relic and slotted into a new body between the conversation with Hellman during Life During Wartime and the Hellman/Goro versions of the Devil ending.
The relic changes DNA. It has to. We already know now that genetic and epigenetic expression greatly affects our personality. So for a host body to truly become the engram, it has to undergo both genetic and epigenetic changes.
When Hellman gives you the relic blueprints, it includes a lot of lines referencing genomic and epigenomic information.
We learn from Alt in the Sun/Star that the changes are not reversible. V cannot keep the body. So that option is out.
We know from all the endings that the relic has progressed quite a bit. We learn in the Devil that the relic requires tissue compatibility in the right direction. On a side note - phenotype does not need to be identical, just receptive from the host's perspective. Which makes sense - if genes begin changing and the new tissue expresses an incompatible phenotype, it will be attacked by the body. There was a coincidental (and interesting) compatibility between Johnny and V that allowed the relic to work. Saburo's works on Yori because they are family and a match. You can piece together bits from Goro and bits from Hellman to learn that since V has undergone partial changes, their phenotype is even more complex and it is essentially impossible to find a compatible host. V is now a Johnny/V mixture and soulkilling V at this point will not wipe away that problem.
Goro and Hellman also both tell you that Hanako considers her SYS offer as upholding her end of the deal and has wiped her hands. They both also tell you that the Arasakas are now gods and no longer care about V's problem. It's safe to say that they won't be helping any other efforts to place V on a chip and try again.
The most popular theory to allow V to survive is cloning.
[...]
Right. But this requires splicing pieces of multiple endings together to arrive at that conclusion.
To form a cohesive continuing story, requires beginning at the common point from all of them. The point of no return. And honestly, it's why I think that point exists in the first place. To give them a common point to continue the story from. And the cloning theory makes even more sense in that regard, because no matter what ending you're about to play through, V knows at that point that's he's ultimately going to die.
Question is, who bakes the clone? Militech?
Right. But this requires splicing pieces of multiple endings together to arrive at that conclusion.
To form a cohesive continuing story, requires beginning at the common point from all of them. The point of no return. And honestly, it's why I think that point exists in the first place. To give them a common point to continue the story from. And the cloning theory makes even more sense in that regard, because no matter what ending you're about to play through, V knows at that point that's he's ultimately going to die.
Question is, who bakes the clone? Militech?
Last edited by a moderator:
To get the whole picture, yeah. But you get the answer you need for the ending you choose. You don't get the answer about the relic in the Sun/Star because you burn that bridge anyway. Goro/Hellman both tell you it has progressed too far and they can't get a compatible host for you in the Devil. Goro's phrasing is a little more clear about the mixed phenotype. Hellman adds that the program hasn't found a way to overcome the compatibility barrier yet. You get the answer either way but the picture is a little more detailed with both.
IMO, I think it would have helped if Hellman dropped quick mention about the DNA changes in Life During Wartime just to plant that seed before the endings. I missed the details the first time around and initially felt like the rules of the relic changed during the endings and it was a bit of a blindside.
Biotechnica can do it already! According to the TTRPG, they've been able to make full human clones for years before 2077, but they are like empty husks. They are used for body part replacement.Question is, who bakes the clone? Militech?
I had completely forgotten about that! And it would certainly fit a continuing narrative quite neatly. Perfectly, in fact
All that remains is what happens between the point of no return, and V ending up in a clone of his/herself. And man..... do I have a METRIC TON of ideas
I don't know if it would have been an "unknown" Johnny, after all Johnny Silverhand is a character from the original tabletop. But the articles I read in the past said that Keanu got so enthusiastic with Cyberpunk he convinced CDPR to double his lines and involvement in the story. I've also read that since its development, the original game changed its base story three times. That would explain why some missions or people seem to be incomplete, or why some of the things shown in the first trailer changed slightly (T-Bug originally teaming up with Dex to kill you, or making Meredith Stout one of the initial poster child of the game, but then finding out she only shows up twice).
It seems they thought Keanu's presence would help them sold the game, and if what the articles say its true, they sacrificed the original story to fit him around him... and I honestly dunno how to feel about that.
As for your DLC comment, I agree on that. If that ever happens, I hope is one of the free DLCs they promised
I think that the "The game wasn't finished because Johnny Silverhand was played by Keanu conspiracy theory" is slightly less believable than Covid was caused by Chinese thermostats.
They added him some lines but none of this had any major change on the game or stories. It doesn't take much to put his avatar in scenes and have him read some banter.
I would like whatever DLC you come up with deal with learning a new language. I just bought the game and working my through and I hear Spanish. However it seems I'm just going to get one liners. I would like a few characters to solely speak that language and in order to inactive with them you must try and become proficient at the language. Say like your character (V) inacts with the NPC but the subtitles are in spanish unless V upgrades themself to decipher and understand the language. If you (player) are fluent in that language then no problem if not then you need to find upgrades, etc.