It was a question, not a statement. I was wondering why Tevinter condemns "deviancy" and why it is meant to be hidden (i.e. it is punishable). Why is it that, opposed to what we were told before, it now resembles practices like those of the Spanish Inquisition?
It is all extremely contradictory as you can see.
I don't know. We weren't able to visit Tevinter in the games yet. And we won't be able to visit Tevinter in Inquisition. The only piece of information about sexuality in Tevinter is from World of Thedas, a book that was released last year, I believe. It says that same-sex relationships between nobles in Tevinter are largely hidden. They are, however, encouraged with the slaves. So yes, Tevinter seems to be very homophobic, but it doesnt reperesent other countries or kingdoms in Thedas.
This is what the wiki says about same-sex relationships in Thedas:
Same-sex relations are generally considered strange in Ferelden, but Fereldans do not consider it immoral, and place no particular stigma upon it. Orlesians regard homosexuality as a mere quirk of character, and the Antivan Crows show a winking tolerance for relations with multiple partners of either sex. The Chantry does not seem to have an official view on the subject, and nowhere in Thedas is it prohibited.[8]
There is pressure in certain circles, such as the elves and the human nobility, to marry an opposite-gendered partner, but this is motivated by pragmatism rather than morality; a homosexual couple cannot have biological children. For a dying race like the elves or dwarves, it is vital that every fertile individual produce offspring, and human noble families place great stock in the continuity of bloodlines in order to have clear heirs to noble titles and fortunes, and thus avoid the conflicts that often erupt when succession is not clear.
In Tevinter, same-sex relationships between nobles are largely hidden. These relationships are encouraged with favored slaves
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@s-jay2676
Thanks for the info but that is all irrelevant. Please read my other post again. You seem to have missed the point.
I tried to expose the inconsistent and contradictory morality of Tevinter. As you say, same sex relationships are hidden in Tevinter. But their society encourages blood magic, slave trade, power, corruption, and so on. Gaider says that, in Tevinter, things considered deviant and shameful are wrong, i.e. punishable. Therefore, he is saying homosexuality in Tevinter is considered deviant but not human oppression and the search for power. It seems to me a society focused on power, dominance and debauchery couldn't care less about sexual preferences. Gaider's Tevinter is completely non sensical.
How it is in the rest of Thedas is irrelevant. This is a fine example of Gaider's (and Dragon Age's by extension) lack of world consistency and coherence.
Thanks for the info but that is all irrelevant. Please read my other post again. You seem to have missed the point.
I tried to expose the inconsistent and contradictory morality of Tevinter. As you say, same sex relationships are hidden in Tevinter. But their society encourages blood magic, slave trade, power, corruption, and so on. Gaider says that, in Tevinter, things considered deviant and shameful are wrong, i.e. punishable. Therefore, he is saying homosexuality in Tevinter is considered deviant but not human oppression and the search for power. It seems to me a society focused on power, dominance and debauchery couldn't care less about sexual preferences. Gaider's Tevinter is completely non sensical.
How it is in the rest of Thedas is irrelevant. This is a fine example of Gaider's (and Dragon Age's by extension) lack of world consistency and coherence.
@.Volsung.
A society focused on power and dominance would want to create pure blood mages. And since same-sex realtionships do not produce any children, it is punishable. But that is just speculation.
A society focused on power and dominance would want to create pure blood mages. And since same-sex realtionships do not produce any children, it is punishable. But that is just speculation.
I thought Tevinter was one of the locations you were supposed to go since the Qunari/Tevinter conflict was teased in DA2. Was it scrapped for time or am I misremembering an interview?
I think that was just speculation. Inquisition is about the fight between Mages, Chantry and Templars and the civil war in Orlais.
@Volsung. Aye it's illogical bollocks but then again Bioware aren't about making believable, authentic worlds anymore as they're concentrating on their dating sim and endless waves of combat aspects. All of they're latest games have been incoherent crap, and you can't really expect their writing to improve in this one. I mean have you read Gaider's books? Complete garbage, a ten year old could write better prose. And in fairness that's not what their fans want, they just want the creepy romances so they can force their attentions on the unable to resist npc's, the sub par Joss Whedon so called "comedy," and the blatant childish power fantasies.
You can't really blame Bioware for catering to this crowd, money's money.
Edit: Fact that Tevinter wizards deal with Desire Demons means this "can't be gay" bullshit is a total fallacy, surprised none of the LHBVnjo;wiFVY lot have spoken out against this blatant and distasteful homophobia. Cherry picking eh?
You can't really blame Bioware for catering to this crowd, money's money.
Edit: Fact that Tevinter wizards deal with Desire Demons means this "can't be gay" bullshit is a total fallacy, surprised none of the LHBVnjo;wiFVY lot have spoken out against this blatant and distasteful homophobia. Cherry picking eh?
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I really upset with fact that studio that bring us Baldurs Gates, Neverwinter Night, Mass Effect and Dragon age turns in homosexualism agitation platform. What a shame.
In any case, I refuse to believe that part of Dorian's background and motivations for being an outcast is being a poor homosexual boy that his cruel parents don't understand, horrible people who tried to combine a wedding with a woman while he wants to be with the man he loves. I refuse to play a game with something so damn corny and pitiful.
Besides, the first time they make a "fully gay" character in a world where being a homosexual is viewed as mildly inconvenient at worst, they have to make him come from the only place in the universe where he can be condemned for it? ...That's just the worst kind of pandering, and a testament to BioWare's current philosophy in writing characters.
That's not quite fair. The best characters of the Witcher games were made by Sapkowski who is a far superior writer than everyone at Bioware AND CDPR imho.
It's also much easier to build on already existing great characters like Geralt instead of being forced to write them from the scratch. A modern video game is sadly very limited in good writing and characterization. Combined with mediocre writers like Gaider you can't expect much of course. The original characters from CDPR in the Witcher games weren't that great either imo. Many people who read the books (which are probably the most dedicated fans) want to see the characters from the books in the games for a reason. It's because no matter the quality of the actual writing they already have their all the bits and bytes of the characters - designed and written by Sapkowski - in mind.
Won't agree with you there. After playing TW1 and reading the Last Wish I was convinced CDPR had better writers, quite frankly. That changed as I read more of his books and realized his English translations are crap, but I still feel they handle dialog and world building far better than Sapkowski. He does some things better, they do other things better. And adaptations are no simple task; you have a plethora of lore and fan expectations that are like a noose around your neck.
Well, let's agree to disagree. Sapkowski is imho at least two or three level above everyone at CDPR (or Biware) in terms of writing. Also the medium itself is far superior for that.
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I think the writing in both Witcher's has been excellent, there's been translation issues but it's been head and shoulders above Bioware, along with the design, narrative and characters (Foltest, Iorveth, Roche, Letho etc.) Bioware does good UI, accessibility, and used to be known for good QA until Awakening, but their writing just hasn't moved on and might well have degenerated. That could be because of Brent Knowle's and other slinging their hook though.
Just my opinion though.
Just my opinion though.
I think it is obvious that Bioware's writing has degenerated, though it has little to do with the inclusion of sexual / racial minorities (despite flaws in their representation, it also helps the world feel as vast and diverse as it should be). Rather, Bioware has been failing in terms of plot, even when compared to their simple but effective plots of past games, and more importantly, tone and themes.
Looking at ME2/3 and DA2, it seems clear to me that Bioware is confused about the tone of its own story. It doesn't seem to know whether it wants to write a high fantasy, low fantasy, dystopia, an epic., heck even a comedy...etc. This leads to a contradictory mess, as we get a high fantasy epic trying so hard to be a low fantasy dystopia. Unless you're an excellent writer, such a thing is very hard to pull off and Bioware failed at it.
What's even worse is either the complete absence of thematic relevance (DA2) or themes being neglected and contradicted in the same game (ME3). Every story has to have a theme, it could be the simplest thing in the world and still be profound and poignant. When you look at DA2 and see that there is literally none, then I honestly believe that DA2 should not even be considered a story. Rather, it's 3 separate narratives (not only 3 separate plots), with the only semblance of a single narrative being Anders (who was poorly executed).
The inclusion of racial and sexual minorities is great and I strongly appreciate it (though I would prefer a more refined representation, but that will come eventually). But that's not enough to make a story.
In terms of representation, I think CDPR, if it has the will to, has a stronger potential in terms of said representation (if of course they exercise care), as they can introduce such characters in meaningful stories and complicated plots where they actually do something.
Looking at ME2/3 and DA2, it seems clear to me that Bioware is confused about the tone of its own story. It doesn't seem to know whether it wants to write a high fantasy, low fantasy, dystopia, an epic., heck even a comedy...etc. This leads to a contradictory mess, as we get a high fantasy epic trying so hard to be a low fantasy dystopia. Unless you're an excellent writer, such a thing is very hard to pull off and Bioware failed at it.
What's even worse is either the complete absence of thematic relevance (DA2) or themes being neglected and contradicted in the same game (ME3). Every story has to have a theme, it could be the simplest thing in the world and still be profound and poignant. When you look at DA2 and see that there is literally none, then I honestly believe that DA2 should not even be considered a story. Rather, it's 3 separate narratives (not only 3 separate plots), with the only semblance of a single narrative being Anders (who was poorly executed).
The inclusion of racial and sexual minorities is great and I strongly appreciate it (though I would prefer a more refined representation, but that will come eventually). But that's not enough to make a story.
In terms of representation, I think CDPR, if it has the will to, has a stronger potential in terms of said representation (if of course they exercise care), as they can introduce such characters in meaningful stories and complicated plots where they actually do something.
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Not just your opinion Blothulfur. All you have to do is play Mass Effect 1 or Dragon Age: Origins and then look at the dialogue for DAI and its clear they are not adhering to their previous standards.
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But it also isn't the same Bioware anymore either. Over the last few years it has lost so many people it's only about 20-25% the same studio
View attachment 4980
But it also isn't the same Bioware anymore either. Over the last few years it has lost so many people it's only about 20-25% the same studio
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