Eldain Needs a Rework

[Guest 4339135]

I fear for Eldain's growth. He is unitless-ish by nature and with the current frustration of the community for unitless decks, it somehow restricts Eldain's future growth. If the future expansions will add more traps then Eldain will just become the go to leader for unitless. Some player despise him now, what more in the future where there will be more traps? I just played a couple of games with a standard Eldain deck and i don't get GG at all then I switch to unitless Eldain and players are starting to forfeit.

I remember, you were one of the persons who were strictly against the idea of stopping unitless strategies and now you are talking about changing Eldain? Where does this change of mind coming from?
The problem is not Eldain, he is only one part of a superior problem. There must be a limit for special cards, maybe 10 or 15, and the problem with no unit decks is solved, but maybe that is to easy...
This game is based on units and with this change the special cards would take their position as a supporting tool and Eldain will not need a change.
The other problem is the artifact problem. Since the release of Homecoming, artifacts didn't fit in this game and nothing has changed. Artifacts need a entire rework, the way they work now is stupid.
Finally, another problem --> traps. Opinions differ on this question, some people hate traps and don't want them in this game, others like playing them or against them. Fact is, that the number of traps shouldn't rise anymore, because when this happens, you can play roulette instead of gwent. Playing around 20 different traps, it will be a lot fun. But CDPR didn't see this problem upcoming, when they talked about adding more traps to the game...because they never see such problems.
So the thing is not to change Eldain, the thing is to change the problematic parts of the game and most of the problems will be solved.
The question about Eldain's abiltiy is the question about how specific leader abilities should be. Maybe like Crach...very unspecific or like Eldain? Maybe both ways are correct.

 

[Guerreroymago]

Honestly, I never win Eldain, but it's also true that I like to use "non-unit decks", and Eldain is special against this. But I do not think it's unbalanced because not a lot of people play it.
If other players do not concede GG, is not the problem whit your deck, is the problem of loser unsportsmanlike.
If another people concede the match, is normal, because some archetypes of decks are weak against Eldain, and play the game is wasting time.

Yeah, those who play unitless decks.

When you play against a "non-units deck", the game will last 5 minutes and most likely you win (if you are a good player).
Unsportsmanlike is used to take advantage of the opponent on not honorable form or disrespect him.
Give an easy and fast win does not enter here.

 

[BrokeCiri]

I remember, you were one of the persons who were strictly against the idea of stopping unitless strategies and now you are talking about changing Eldain? Where does this change of mind coming from?

I still think unitless is just another variety of deck build, nothing changed. I made this thread not because of what i think, it's for the leader and community growth. Since majority of the players despise unitless, CDPR will take action sooner or later and with this, Eldain's development will be somewhat restricted. Is it correct to add more traps/artifacts in the future expansion? Will Eldain be stuck with Pitfall, Horn, Serpent, Crushing, and Incinerating Trap forever? Do you see how restricted his development is?

 

[Iuliandrei]

I spoke against Eldain's ability when he was revealed but what bothers me is that he got buffed for no reason. Yeah he wasn't played much in the first few weeks but they rushed to gave him an additional charge without considering the implications. I don't know how to put this but when you have a 9pt leader and think to yourself "9 points isn't enough, we should give him more" then maybe the problem goes much deeper.

 

[rrc]

I spoke against Eldain's ability when he was revealed but what bothers me is that he got buffed for no reason. Yeah he wasn't played much in the first few weeks but they rushed to gave him an additional charge without considering the implications. I don't know how to put this but when you have a 9pt leader and think to yourself "9 points isn't enough, we should give him more" then maybe the problem goes much deeper.

Have you tried playing with Eldain? It is extremely restrictive. Horn and Pitfall are for the round end. Even the Crushing Trap is for the round end (or you lose a possible 2 damage from it). I tried extensively with Eldain, and more than half of the game, I didn't get the chance to use his all four charges. The leader charges for Eldain is the most restrictive in the entire game.

The game completely depends on your hand and if you don't draw the key traps, you are left with some awkward plays. He was the weakest and junkest leader of the entire game. Without the +1 charge, he would have reminded like that. Now the the lot of unitless decks going around, Eldain players also want to try that I think (I have never played a unitless deck and I am done with Eldain so I am assuming) with Summoning Circle, the Stick of Weathers, and special bombs, etc.

CDPR is going to fix the unitless deck soon. Once it is done, the Eldain thingy we are discussing in this thread will become normal. Please just leave Eldain (and ST) alone with the nerf suggestions. The weakest leader in the entire game (Eithnèe who is worth 4 points) is the strongest leader of ST(TM) and even she got nerfed even without anyone specifically asking for it. CDPR just needs a small hint to jump on to ST and butcher it, so, please lets not give them ideas of how to nerf ST.

FYI:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1127872614003761152

 

[Guerreroymago]

FYI:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1127872614003761152

Hey! This is my deck!!! XDDDDD

Bad luck for me, no units in first two rounds. If my leader is not the parricide, I lose.

 

[DankTemplar]

Eladin is by far the worst unitless deck. It can win but it's hard to play and it's an uphill battle.

This is mostly because most of the traps need to respond to a summon, need units to boost or need a fat row to ping.

It's almost entirely reactive so if you don't go 1st you're probably dead, nevermind if you don't manage your resources well, which guarantees a match loss.

I assume when CDPR says they're going to hit unitless they want to hit thinks like Tactic spam NG, Monster Unitless or Skellige unitless since those are the nightmare unitless decks.

Even Francesca unitless is more interactive than those 3 mentioned above since she usually summons combos via double Royal Decree plays.

 

[BrokeCiri]

CDPR is going to fix the unitless deck soon. Once it is done, the Eldain thingy we are discussing in this thread will become normal. Please just leave Eldain (and ST) alone with the nerf suggestions. The weakest leader in the entire game (Eithnèe who is worth 4 points) is the strongest leader of ST(TM) and even she got nerfed even without anyone specifically asking for it. CDPR just needs a small hint to jump on to ST and butcher it, so, please lets not give them ideas of how to nerf ST.

This thread is not a call for nerf. I'm just curious how the future of Eldain will look. Personally, i want more traps and i want Eldain to be the mind game leader but like I said, devs tend to address issues that majority of the community faces which is unitless, artifacts, etc... Let's say CDPR manages to solve the unitless decks, Eldain/ST have 7 traps already so will adding more traps in the future expansions a correct move or will adding more traps will just open up the unitless issue again? Can you see how restrictive the development for Eldain?

 

[Guest 4339135]

I still think unitless is just another variety of deck build, nothing changed. I made this thread not because of what i think, it's for the leader and community growth. Since majority of the players despise unitless, CDPR will take action sooner or later and with this, Eldain's development will be somewhat restricted. Is it correct to add more traps/artifacts in the future expansion? Will Eldain be stuck with Pitfall, Horn, Serpent, Crushing, and Incinerating Trap forever? Do you see how restricted his development is?

As I said before, I think the problems go deeper and Eldain is just a little part of it. But to add more traps in future won't work, because with the increasing numbers of traps and the possibilities to choose between maybe more than 10-15 traps, you can't play around them anymore and you can't read what trap your opponent is playing. So the problem with Eldain is the problem with hidden cards in this game. Maybe it's okay to add 2 or 3 traps more to the game, but then the limit is reached.
So I would say his development is restricted, but every leaders development with such a specific ability is restricted. I think we have to talk about how specific leader abilities should be.

 

[mzeebra]

The presence of Treant Mantis may be a foreshadowing that there will be more ambush units in the future. Here are some trap ideas:

There are enough traps, the game does not need more. Trap decks are annoying to play, but it's tolerable. Too many traps would only make it annoying.

 

[BrokeCiri]

Finally! You guys see what i'm pointing out. It feels like Eldain already capped on his development.

 

[mzeebra]

He's only as limited as ST is as a faction. Nobody forces anyone to only use traps with Eldain. Other supplementary cards and tactics are available. But considering the traps stay on the board, Eldain's ability of turning each into 3 (??) power is a good ability and supplements traps and other units.

 

[Smradd]

If CDPR invents rotations of expansions then we/they don't need to worry much about Eldain. You will always have those traps from basic set + a few from recent expansions which makes it easier to balance him out.

If they don't go with any kind of rotation, then they need to do something.

Personally he was the only interesting leader to me in ST and I was planning to make him as my second deck and thought CC would add more traps to make him more fun to play. But when I saw mantis trap I was really disappointed so I kinda dropped ST entirely.

 

[Panos_Sigma]

IMO I think that Eldain is super fine. The unitless Eldain variation is as problematic as every other leader who is used to build these disgusting no unit decks.

He is very tricky and hard to pilot, he's not about point spamming and definitely has limited removal / control compared to most NG and ST decks. Also, as many ppl know, he has a huge weakness. Short rounds.

Eldain and Anna Henrietta, are the only leaders who you need to change your usual card sequencing against them and I like that. Although annoying, it's refreshing.

 

[BrokeCiri]

IMO I think that Eldain is super fine. The unitless Eldain variation is as problematic as every other leader who is used to build these disgusting no unit decks.

He is very tricky and hard to sequence, he's not about point spamming and definitely has limited removal / control compared to most NG and ST decks. Also, as many ppl know, he has a huge weakness. Short rounds.

Eldain and Anna Henrietta, are the only leaders who you need to change your usual sequencing against them and I like that. Although annoying, it's refreshing.

I agree but then again you guys are talking about the "present Eldain". What i'm pointing out is the "future Eldain".

 

[Panos_Sigma]

I agree but then again you guys are talking about the "present Eldain". What i'm pointing out is the "future Eldain".

I get what you're saying, but past, present or future Eldain was / is / will never problematic for me. Unitless decks are. There are many other leaders who can also abuse and enhance this "play style". Burza wrote several times that they are going to fix the unitless decks problem. I hope that there will be a restriction to max / min specials or units you can use in deckbuilding.

 

[rrc]

I agree but then again you guys are talking about the "present Eldain". What i'm pointing out is the "future Eldain".

@BrokeCiri, even if the unitless deck abominations are handled somehow and people will not be able to create or play with those decks, Eldain will remain as he is, unfortunately. Adding any more traps will basically make Traps annoying as hell as people will not be able to play around it. If the trap doesn't get triggered on the first turn, now it can be one of the three traps. Now in that three, one is harmless, one is just 8 points, another punishes row stack. People can play around it. But if there is a 4th option and if two are dangerous among the four, it will be more frustrating. Imagine if there is a 5th option. It is simply not healthy for the game.

So, I don't think we are ever going to see more traps, traps that are actually useful or dangerous. May be a meme trap can be added, something harmless and something that interacts with the allied unit on next turn. But I don't think there should be a new trap added that interacts with the enemy units.

 

[BrokeCiri]

@BrokeCiri, even if the unitless deck abominations are handled somehow and people will not be able to create or play with those decks, Eldain will remain as he is, unfortunately. Adding any more traps will basically make Traps annoying as hell as people will not be able to play around it. If the trap doesn't get triggered on the first turn, now it can be one of the three traps. Now in that three, one is harmless, one is just 8 points, another punishes row stack. People can play around it. But if there is a 4th option and if two are dangerous among the four, it will be more frustrating. Imagine if there is a 5th option. It is simply not healthy for the game.

So, I don't think we are ever going to see more traps, traps that are actually useful or dangerous. May be a meme trap can be added, something harmless and something that interacts with the allied unit on next turn. But I don't think there should be a new trap added that interacts with the enemy units.

This is exactly what i'm pointing out. I don't mind Eldain being a unitless-ish leader, that's his nature. The problem is it looks like there is little or no room at all for Eldain's development. I don't know, maybe I'm just looking too far in the future development of the game and just causing myself stress.