I would suggest that this is actually the opposite of what stats and levels do, they force people in to using what ever has the biggest numbers even if something else is more interesting.
I would suggest that this is actually the opposite of what stats and levels do, they force people in to using what ever has the biggest numbers even if something else is more interesting.
yep, but then you remembered that the witcher sets have way better stats, which kinda forces you to use them.
-weapons: you create a fixed number of weapons, let's say 30, each with specific characteristics. Not enough? Add a "modding" option were you can add characteristics to the weapon (not better numbers): you can add a scope, maybe a thermal one, you can improve the magazine, you can add "elemental DMG" through bullet types (explosive bullets, EMP bullets), you can add an handle that reduces recoil... But don't give me the same weapon with different numbers, because that's unrealistic bullshit. You can loot them, but you don't go around with 20 shotguns just to sell them (small inventory is important).
-clothing/armor: here I have more problems in finding a way to add stats that make sense. I would like classic clothings with no stats at all with the only purpose of looking good, on top (or below) of them you can add bulletproof vests, "armors" or special stuff (like a firefighters vest giving fire resistence), which are giving you the stats.
In a cyberpunk game, I'd give more importance to cyberware than to clothes. Skinwave is a thing in that setting, you really don't need a magical bulletproof t-shirt.
I'm mostly thinking from a developer's perspective, and why CDPR may be going the way they're going. As a player, myself, I agree with both of you.
Here's the point I was trying to make, hopefully better explained: Yes, it's true that constantly forcing you to upgrade your gear doesn't let you create one unique look; it was incorrect to put it that way. However, it does force you to experience different gear, different looks, over the course of the game.
In that sense, Witcher sets aside (I didn't even know about them for my first playthrough, and I wouldn't be surprised if others were the same), a much larger portion of the total asset pool is getting used. As such, it's not being wasted.
That's what I think one development justification could be.
I think you're both correct. I've stated in the past on multiple occasions that I would prefer to simply have a gun be a gun, and same for armor/clothes, with different Skyrim-like tiers (Orcish = Experimental, Daedric = Military-grade) to represent some form of progression. No "legendary" version of an Experimental Pistol that is magically better than the basic "Common" experimental pistol. But I'm trying to play devil's advocate.
Like Skyrim, a low-tiered pistol (steel sword) can be useful throughout the entire game. You upgrade it with modifications, or whatever the equivalent in 2077 could be of enchanting and tempering. That's just one possible solution to the loot dilemma, and it avoids scaling entirely.
Here's the point I was trying to make, hopefully better explained: Yes, it's true that constantly forcing you to upgrade your gear doesn't let you create one unique look; it was incorrect to put it that way. However, it does force you to experience different gear, different looks, over the course of the game.
In that sense, Witcher sets aside (I didn't even know about them for my first playthrough, and I wouldn't be surprised if others were the same), a much larger portion of the total asset pool is getting used. As such, it's not being wasted.
That's what I think one development justification could be.
I think you're both correct. I've stated in the past on multiple occasions that I would prefer to simply have a gun be a gun, and same for armor/clothes, with different Skyrim-like tiers (Orcish = Experimental, Daedric = Military-grade) to represent some form of progression. No "legendary" version of an Experimental Pistol that is magically better than the basic "Common" experimental pistol. But I'm trying to play devil's advocate.
Like Skyrim, a low-tiered pistol (steel sword) can be useful throughout the entire game. You upgrade it with modifications, or whatever the equivalent in 2077 could be of enchanting and tempering. That's just one possible solution to the loot dilemma, and it avoids scaling entirely.
I was just thinking, besides variety when it comes to weapons, and clothing, I think it'd be nice if we had several options when it comes to more mundane things.
For instance; maybe you want a wrist mounted or handheld phone instead of some augmented reality hud interface for communications?
It'd also be nice if several companies offered pretty much the exact same things in cyberware, or any other goods and services with only very minimal difference, just like we have in the real world when it comes to electronics, gadgets, cars, and everything else so there's more of a sense of market competition as well as consumer choice in every price range.
Company XYZ makes the things you want in Red, Blue, or Yellow, but, other companies offer similar products with different colors, flavors, and even features, where some companies are really cheap ripoffs that will break or malfunction if you use whatever the thing is for more than show.
For instance; maybe you want a wrist mounted or handheld phone instead of some augmented reality hud interface for communications?
It'd also be nice if several companies offered pretty much the exact same things in cyberware, or any other goods and services with only very minimal difference, just like we have in the real world when it comes to electronics, gadgets, cars, and everything else so there's more of a sense of market competition as well as consumer choice in every price range.
Company XYZ makes the things you want in Red, Blue, or Yellow, but, other companies offer similar products with different colors, flavors, and even features, where some companies are really cheap ripoffs that will break or malfunction if you use whatever the thing is for more than show.
from a dev's perspective, I think these loot (and level) systems are used for 2 reasons:
1) give the sense of progression: you become stronger throughout the adventure. Getting better (for real) apparently is not enough from a psychological point of view, you need numbers and the rewarding feeling you get when you unlock a new skill or stuff like that. And it's definetely easier to code enemies with higher stats than better AI and attack patterns.
2) devs are forcing you to be where they want when they want. Your level (and gear) is below 16, you're not going to skellige, I'm sorry. First you help the bloody baron, keira and triss, then you can go and talk with yennefer. What if I want to beat an end-game monster and get precious loot and exp. so that I can play the game in an easier way with high-end gear? No, it will kill you instantly. You're not supposed to do that otherwise the whole game's balance will be screwed.
3) the dopamine flow you get when you kill an enemy and get some epic shiny loot is something that will make "any" gamer feel rewarded and satisfied. You don't really realise it, but you like it.
I'm more amused and satisfied when I see a videogame perfectly consistent and that pays a lot of attention to little details, giving justifications, unluckily it's very rare. E.g. god of war 2018, you can't swim so:
Kratos: "never touch the water"
Atreus: "why?"
Kratos: "do you know what's under it?"
Atreus: "no, water is pitch-dark"
Kratos: "exactly" = it's dangerous
It's very easy, but it makes sense and gives a justification, a little precious detail. Then the game ruins its perfect way to limit progression (areas are unlock when water goes below their level) when it puts some high-level enemy in beginning areas so devs were forced (by themselves!) to add levels above their head so that the player knows why s/he was wrecked. Don't really know why they did that, probably to force some backtracking, but that's stuff for another topic.
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Armor, or DR gear/loot should be easy through a multiple layered system. They can randomize the crap out of a subdermal armor weave drops for example and have another layer for "clothing" or apparel. Heck most folks would be okay with kevlar suits not showing if they can equip a nice jacket and not look like a stuffed animal, as long as the option is there for when you actually want to look like a SWAT trooper. And if that can't really be compromised on, when the "armor" layer is used with heavy armor, the apparel layer is unusable. Role-play. So skin layer - body armor layer - clothes layer. Mix and match, plenty of loot, plenty of role-play, a lot of work to implement properly, but has been done before.
This way randomized stats loot should be that much of a issue, even fixed stat loot like how the Witcher had would be fine, since the whole point of this is to separate, or provide the possibility to separate, stats from looks.
Guns are trickier but i'll try to give my input on how i'd like them implemented. There should several gun types (pistol, smg, assault rifle) or manufacturers (think Borderlands), basically sort them out in groups based on their functionality and situational use. Make several gun variants for each individual group which are one of a kind but with different stats from guns within that group. Offer the posibility of upgrading said guns instead of finding a "better" but same gun, through mods or more complex operations with the help of a gunsmith for example. Ammo should also factor into the gun looting scheme with multiple ammo types, maybe even non-lethal ammo. So yea, nothing too fancy here. But should offer plaenty of loot and progresion to keep things interesting and fresh.
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It depends on the game's lore: if "neural phones" are only for rich people, then it makes to have smartphones and alike, but if the aug reality is common and cheap (how it looks to be in the demo, the game lore is about a world were everybody wants to have a lot of cyberware), then smartphone shouldn't exist. Technology follows darwinism: when something better comes, the old stuff dies forever.
... and then your Ripper Doc, the Cyberware guy himself, doesn't have ANY cyberware.
He's got a glove that looks like it might be cyberware, but, it's a glove.
That, my friend is the $64 question.
In general you have "classic RPG" style. Loot is uncommon (unless you're in a "Monty Hall" game) and usually something you can use, or at least sell for a nice profit.
Then there's "Diablo" style. This tends to stress random stats, so the more loot you get the better the odds of getting something worthwhile. The other 99% is just the results of poor random stat generation, thus basically trash.
This is a common problem in MMOs and many RPGs. The player generally wants to customize the appearance of their character but each type of armor/weapon/whatever has a unique look and stats based on whatever the artist/developer did.
So you usually wind up with gear you really like the look of, but it's stats suck. Or great stats that looks like shit (in your opinion). One easy way around this is to keep item appearence and stats seperate. Then somewhere in the game have an NPC craftsman that permits you to transfer the stats of item 'A' to item 'B' (and 'B' of course gets 'A's stats ... no duping items with good stats).
Yes.
This means a player can create a chainmail bikini. But in a single player (and many MMO) games does it really matter? Sure purists (and the artist/developer) may well be horrified, but it's YOUR game not theirs, you bought it, you own it.
Yep, this is a great way to handle it. Essentially a "transmog" system, to use a World of Warcraft term. We'll have to see whether or not CDPR implements something like that, but I hope so! Or, alternatively, open the game up to mod support and let me do it myself.
How do you know he doesn't have any cyberware at all? Again, if the lore of 2077 says that not everyone in night city wants to have cyberware, then it makes sense that alternatives exist.
Okay, let's say he APPEARs, or seems to appear to have no cyberware ... unless Full Body Conversion, human-natural-looking Gemini variant bodies come with balding, a need for eye glasses, and a verbally confessed "shakey 'ganic hand" (techie gloved hand indicated with a glance) ... as shown in the 48 minute long gameplay demo video.
I thought that was an interesting visual story asking to be told in the gameplay demo video, as it seemed a rather obvious contrast to the character's profession as a rtpper doc.
Another example we might consider is this character rolling around on a scooter, a character that seems to be handicapped, in a world where cheap, readily available cyberware what could mitigate his possible handicap exists and is everywhere.
Perhaps one of the problems in CP 2077 is a neuro-degenerative/effecting disease, or something else that could be invented like a cyber-rejection disorder, or even post-therapy, reformed, cyber-psychos that can't ever do or have cyberware again because of psychosis risk, that prevents some folks in the game world from ever being able to have cyberware. In that sense, it would make plausible and logical sense that there would be a market, at least a small market, for non-cybernetic alternatives, like hand-held phones, and wearables.
I think we'll know only once the game is out The important thing for me is that everything is consistent with lore and narrative.
The important thing for me is that everything is consistent with lore and narrative.
I think we'll know only once the game is out
We should also consider that 50 years have passed since CP 2020, and there's going to be some changes and retcons as hinted in some news, plus accounting for several decades of time lapse where new lore is invented, and introduced in CP Red, and CP 2077.
Expectations should thus, responsibly, lean in the direction of plausible lore-friendly material as opposed to unbending purist lore-gospel.
We will, of course, see when we see.
yeah, I wasn't clear: couldn't care less about 2020, I'm happy as long as the game is consistent with the 2077 lore. Stupid example: if the game clearly says that wood is not used anymore due to the almost total distruction of forests in 2036, then I don't want to see lots of gangoons using wooden baseball bats or a lot of wooden furniture. It's fine if some rich guy has it in his top floor mansion, but it can't be something you see everywhere. Whatever is written in the game must be law. Laser guns exist because they invented them in 2045? Fine. People live on the moon? Fine, as long as I don't see some magic like dragons and wizards.