Gender and Identity

[Aditya]

Disclaimer: I'm just a cis-straight dude and where I come from, as a famous comedian cited on Conan recently, we Indians are the white people of brown people.

While this specifically didn't bother (nor strike) me and the majority of us, what prompted me to write this is based on what I've been reading everywhere on the interwebz hidden in comments to chat groups, on the character creation/customization of having the ability to flesh out our own version of V, and being disturbed that after progressively three great games and the devs being our industry role-models, Night City continues to reflect a much real-world problem of being a cis-centric dominated society despite supposed to be portraying a diverse world with people from all walks of life.

While this didn't come across as a direct apparent issue as the FP v TP (which seemed to be the only constant complaint people are having as we know) debate, rather more of a sadness overlooked. I'm curious if the devs have something in a store on this front, will there be additional labels like cis/trans and specific dialogue lines recorded with gender-neutral pronouns (they/them)? Realistically don't see an entirely new gender option with another VO artist (let alone having a whole new camera angle rigging the whole base game code LOL). Or as this is primarily our story-driven game about transhumanism and plot twist where we find out we've been a sophisticated robot all along and after a point in the story we can literally change everything including our appearance/gender? (which certainly would be a big spoiler bomb, and no other reason me seeing this thread deleted as opposed to a healthy discussion)

Just as to me and a million others, The Witcher has been a major part of many our lives in the past decade, personally, and to many even professionally. Geralt has been a friend to many of us, especially during the lows, now seeing many fellow fans invested in this game before it even had a name disheartened on this did makes me think (and type). While I'm sure CP77 will be all that anyone will be talking about when it arrives, till then wanted to know if CDP has anything to add to this, just so all are felt included and heard.

 

[NorseGraphics]

A lot of unnecessary work when it can be role-played by the gamer(s). Besides, you can't really visualize gender-identity. Most gay people don't talk about it explicitly, so how would anyone know? I never knew a friend of mine was gay, mainly because I never cared about other peoples orientation. What happens between the walls of your home is none of my business. So, no, please keep gender/identity-politics out of games, period.

 

[HellKnightX88]

Devs have stated that you can have gay relationships if you wish. And while you can customize certain aspects of V you're still limited in what you can have them do/be. For example you're not going to be a corpo, or a rockerboy, or a media etc. There are limitations.

As for the NPCs you'll bump into, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if you met people that aren't cis. As long as it doesn't feel forced or shoehorned in, if it makes sense it's perfectly fine. Diversity for the sake of diversity doesn't really add anything beyond upsetting people that are tired of it. And those people tend to be a majority within the customer base.

 

[Audie_Carpenter]

Diversity for the sake of diversity ...

The token transgender. Yeah... no. Nobody wants to be the token [insert any noun], I hope not.



I'm kinda ignorant when it comes to this, but if you guys identify yourselves as the opposite sex then why not just roleplay as that gender? If I'm wrong, please explain to me why is it not that simple? I'm opened on learning.

 

[Aditya]

You're confusing sexual orientation with sexual identity. Yes, the former unless explicitly stated (and if you have something to do with that/said person) is really of nobody's business, while the latter does constitute a big chunk of who one is as a person, and by extension literally how the whole world perceives you.

Here in the cyberpunk world of Night City, the whole premise is about carving your own-self, I see little reason why this (option) shouldn't be included, or at least acknowledged.

 

[doktor_fleck]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "sexual identity" defines "how one thinks of oneself in terms of to whom one is romantically or sexually attracted" (wikipedia). So what would stop anybody to roleplay this? You can be attracted do males, females, cyborgs, cars, whatever. Or I'm not getting something here? Is it really so important to just put a label on everything?

 

[Audie_Carpenter]

I guess "Gender Identity" would be the correct label to identify sex. And "Sexual Identity" is just another word for sexual orientation?

 

[Seredas]

Just as Geralt has been your friend, Cp2077 protagonist will be too, accompanied by whatever decision CDPR makes. So what if I want to play as a rabbit, CDPR will have to include me too? Like I said on a different thread, trying to make a game that appeals to every single person will probably result in a game that appeals to nobody. It's the worst thing a game dev can make and I'm saying this as a cs major that practices game design(not trying to appear as something grand I'm obviously nowhere near as accomplished as a CDPR game designer.) Trust me, the one thing you should ask from CDPR is to stick to their vision. Already, CP2077 (and that's a good thing) lets us play as a male or a female and have straight or gay relationships, but for very very few even that is not enough, they basically want to dictate CDPR to make the game 100% to their standards. And even if they did what you asked, I guarantee you there would still be someone that would ask for something else, I guarantee it 100%! Bypassing your political comment(because it is) ->"real-world problem of being cis-centric society", everything they make in CP2077 has to fit within the lore and makes sense, that's what CDPR does so that nothing takes you out of the immersion. So, trust them to realize the world of Night City, like you (I assume) did with W3.

Edit: and as someone above me said, diversity for the sake of diversity is really bad. We can see it happening and we're tired of it now as we can see from Battlefield 5's flop.

 

[Aditya]

Of course, anything done for the sake of it or appealing to everybody most likely leads to nothing, no need for a discourse there. Nor is entitlement over expecting someone's work/product (in this case CDP's game) to cater to our own whims and fantasies makes any sense, let alone should be entertained. If anything, just grateful this whole thing exists to begin with and to be a part of the community in the process.

Like I said earlier, this won't bother most of us and as already pointed out by several, might come across as just more blabber. Not meaning to sound like a spokesperson for anybody (apart from self) but still feel it's important enough to point out that there are several people who would feel quite differently even if it's a fraction of the fan-base and in such a context really can't make a case as non-binary gendered folks around the globe live with a fear for their lives, let alone argue for representation in a video game (that being said, really would like to know the views of an NB identifying individual and their views here)

 

[marcioluna22]

You guys are not yet thinking outside the box. If we are in a future where you can fully customize your body, it would be plausable to assume that body modifications and the counsciousness x body dilema would go even further than just gender and identity.

For starters, what would the define "you"? Your body (that can be modified), your behaviour (that can be tempered with implants and drugs), your memories (that could be hacked), your feelings (that could also be altered by hacks or drugs)?

What if i want fully modify my body to match my identity as a dog? or as a cat? or as a robot? I´d be really disappointed if i didn´t see that variety in the game, narrowing the body modifications only as combat modifiers. The beauty in RPGs is immersion. The Witcher had a repetitive combat system, but the game was praised due to it´s immersion. It´s depth in exploring the nuances of the world, the moral implications. I´d like to see how my cosmetic body modifications affect the world.

If the devs wished to push even further, they could drop the Ghost in The Shell reference to the "mind" modifications where you live in a colective state of counsciousness with other beings, sharing multiple bodies at once. I´d like to see a group of enemies or just npcs that are part of a religion of "mind sharing" or "body sharing" experience.

And you could also fulfill the dream of furries with cosmetic-dog like body mods.

 

[Payton1]

If a person born as a woman identifies as a man, then that person choose male V, no? I don't get what more is needed here.

I've been reading this request on a certain forum and some people there acted like they had an agenda to force this into every media. Can't wait to read from them how the next Batman or Spider-Man game doesn't feature enough trans people.
It's not a commissioned work, this is the studio's project not ours. Feedback, criticism are all good but the devs aren't not here to satisfy everyone's wish. They don't have to and can't.

I understand that in this particular game it makes sense (transhumanism theme and all that) but I don't see what's missing. If you want to play as or identify yourself as a man, choose male V, if not, choose female V.

 

[Tupexi]

I just hope we could all agree that not everything needs to be a platform for that particular agenda and it shouldn't be
held against the developer if they choose not to use their game as such.

These discussions very rarely end well and I'd much rather have a civil talk about a game most of us are obviously very hyped about.

I'll just go and watch the gameplay... again

 

[Seredas]

If a person born as a woman identifies as a man, then that person choose male V, no? I don't get what more is needed here.

I've been reading this request on a certain forum and some people there acted like they had an agenda to force this into every media. Can't to read from them how the next Batman or Spider-Man game doesn't feature enough trans people.
It's not a commissioned work, this is the studio's project not ours. Feedback, criticism are all good but the devs aren't not here to satisfy everyone's wish. They don't have to and can't.

I understand that in this particular game it makes sense (transhumanism theme and all that) but I don't see what's missing. If you want to play as or identify yourself as a man, choose male V, if not, choose female V.

"It's not a comissioned work" ->> E-x-a-c-t-l-y! This comment nailed it imo. Anyway, this will turn political really fast(it already is), so I'm really curious why mods haven't closed it yet.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

I'm just a person who identifies as a person and where I come from, me and my person friends, we don't purchase products that cater to extreme minorities who want/need their identity issues normalized/justified.

 

[Seredas]

Mods?!?

 

[Draconifors]

Locking this to clean it up.

Update: Thread will remain closed.
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