Gwent beta live stream with developers 03.07.2017

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Burza46

CD PROJEKT RED
DarkShuyin;n9063660 said:
Agreed, As an Eredin Weather player i'm taking a break from the game till CDPR fixes their obvious mistakes. it's almost like they're playing dice to see what numbers some random cards are gonna get. I've played CCG all my life and even Konami's Yugioh banlists make more sense then these ''fixes'' also the ''new player this, new player that'' stuff freaks me out, I don't want this to end up like Heartstone

Get it together CDPR

Weather needed a significant change. We are currently in a meta where weather is auto-include in all factions and archetypes. As we are in beta phase of the game, we're trying to find the middle-ground in terms of balance and testing different options as much as possible. And no, we don't play dice over card values ;)
 

Burza46

CD PROJEKT RED
scorba;n9064840 said:
NR was already very strong, only it wasn't that obvious because they were complicated decks, but they were strong.
after this patch, NR will be the next broken faction.
I hope the next patch will bring balance finally!

Based on statistics and feedback NR has not seen a lot play, we've be constantly pushing to make the faction a little bit stronger. Same with Scoia'tael.
 
Burza46;n9067200 said:
Based on statistics and feedback NR has not seen a lot play, we've be constantly pushing to make the faction a little bit stronger. Same with Scoia'tael.

wow, thank you for the official response! that's a nice thing to do.
anyway I think NR is rare only because they require more thinking than the other factions, but whenever I meet them, I very rarely win no matter what deck I use. surely, I'm just a noob. My guess is that when more players realize they're good, their real strength will be apparent, but only time will tell.
(non-spell) ST really needed some love, I agree with that.
 
burek18;n9066190 said:
It is very much possible, it just needs a bit more setup on your part and it won't work in every scenario.

What are you even talking about? Do you realize the reason milva+ roach was being used? You can't get any CA anymore from this, so there's no point. Milva has no synergy with ST cards except for denis, and since outside of that you can mostly use her to reset an extremely buffed enemy card, that won't be roach for your highest unit on the board (and you DON'T want to reset roach anyway, she's a dead card that you'll be forced to mulligan to repull out, completely useless except for the very specific "buff in hand then mulligan" trick).
Roach has no value with Milva. Milva has very little use in non dwarf ST deck to begin with.
 
Zefyris;n9067590 said:
What are you even talking about? Do you realize the reason milva+ roach was being used? You can't get any CA anymore from this, so there's no point. Milva has no synergy with ST cards except for denis, and since outside of that you can mostly use her to reset an extremely buffed enemy card, that won't be roach for your highest unit on the board (and you DON'T want to reset roach anyway, she's a dead card that you'll be forced to mulligan to repull out, completely useless except for the very specific "buff in hand then mulligan" trick).
Roach has no value with Milva. Milva has very little use in non dwarf ST deck to begin with.

I'd say winning R1 and the playing a T1 yaevinn into a T2 milva will be a very strong play now. Granted these are 1 gold and 1 silver, but it's definitely something to consider. You gain CA and take away your opponent's strength without investing any more cards on the table, giving him a card which will help you force a 2-0.

Also, in a mulligan archetype, you go 2nd, you can play milva as a proactive card, returning the T1 enemy to the player's hand and getting roach for free to mulligan him away. Not sure if this will be very useful, but it's also an effect to consider.

​​​​​​​Meaning that it definitely won't be like OB at all, but Milva will surely see more use and he's considerably more potential now that roach comes with her, IMO.
 
Zefyris;n9067590 said:
What are you even talking about? Do you realize the reason milva+ roach was being used? You can't get any CA anymore from this, so there's no point. Milva has no synergy with ST cards except for denis, and since outside of that you can mostly use her to reset an extremely buffed enemy card, that won't be roach for your highest unit on the board (and you DON'T want to reset roach anyway, she's a dead card that you'll be forced to mulligan to repull out, completely useless except for the very specific "buff in hand then mulligan" trick).
Roach has no value with Milva. Milva has very little use in non dwarf ST deck to begin with.

Actually, both Milva and Yaevinn are zero sum cards. So let's look at how a r2 would play out IF you won r1. Assume both players have equal cards at 10. The number in parantheses represent the number of cards you have in hand after playing a card:

Yaevinn (10) - Opp: plays any card(9 - or 10 if it's a spy zero sum as Yaevinn) - Milva with Roach (10) - Opp: Needs to play a card or even two since he'll most probably be behind in points (9); You can now play out the round with CA since Yaevinn is probably a dead card in opp hand or at the very least very risky to play in r2 when he needs to win.

Same can be accomplished with just dry passing, but there are obvious benefits to playing it out with Milva, since you'll be thinning your deck and you'll be forcing out the opponent to play cards he could use in r3.
 
Burza46;n9067120 said:
Weather needed a significant change. We are currently in a meta where weather is auto-include in all factions and archetypes.

So next you'll weaken gold cards because they are auto-include? :) Just because something has reasonable value and sees use doesn't make it OP and need of change.

I put 400+ ranked games into this last meta... definitely wouldn't consider weather to be auto-include. I used weather in only 3 of my decks out of the 10 I tried regularly and didn't find weather to be oppressive in the hands of my opponents in anything other than the ST spell deck which kept replaying silver weather cards (the nerf to aeromancy fixes much of that).

In most of my decks I simply added 1 or 2 bronze units which can clear weather from their row and found that to work out just fine for the aforementioned hundreds of games I played. The same consideration was involved as the necessity of playing around geralt igni and scorch.

Between ample agile units, ample cards that can move units, ample bronze units with good value that also clear weather, and first light which is valuable for deck thinning, and mages, weather was already nowhere near OP.

When you make bronze weather cards require 4 turns before they get the same value as putting down an actual unit that makes them a dead card, especially when it's so easy for the opponent to use agile units. With the slight buff to so many other units in-game weather will no longer provide sufficient value to see competitive play as it is high-risk, low-reward to have in your deck in so many situations.

The only cards that still make sense are the wild hunt hounds and other faction equivalents but the goal there is primarily to use weather cards as deck thinning with them, if they happen to get any value that's a bonus.
 
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Burza46;n9067120 said:
Weather needed a significant change. We are currently in a meta where weather is auto-include in all factions and archetypes. As we are in beta phase of the game, we're trying to find the middle-ground in terms of balance and testing different options as much as possible. And no, we don't play dice over card values ;)

Weather is one of the core elements of Gwent, it's one of the things that separates this CCG from others and gives the game depth, and you should be proud of that. Of course Weather is an auto-include in Dagon/Eredin decks. that's the whole point of their archetype, without it these decks don't run as their archetypes were designed for resulting in those decks not being able to stand up to NR/NG/SK anymore. And people SHOULD side deck cards for those situations. it's why side decking exists in card games in the first place. It forces a player to always think of the next step, the next strategy, what to expect.

I respect the work you're doing though, decks should be evenly matched, and right now they're not. not even close.
 
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DarkShuyin;n9070130 said:
Weather is one of the core elements of Gwent, it's one of the things that separates this CCG from others and gives the game depth, and you should be proud of that. Of course Weather is an auto-include in Dagon/Eredin decks. that's the whole point of their archetype, without it these decks don't run as their archetypes were designed for resulting in those decks not being able to stand up to NR/NG/SK anymore. And people SHOULD side deck cards for those situations. it's why side decking exists in card games in the first place. It forces a player to always think of the next step, the next strategy, what to expect.

I don't understand how nerfing the easiest and most boring archetype in the game is simplifying the game. Weather was always the least favorite deck to play against, as it requires almost no thinking from the player. You won't see any advanced player whining about the nerf, at least from none who isn't weather main (but i'm not sure if you can call those people advanced). Not only it opens doors for more variety in the decks, but it is incredibly healthy for the game. I don't imagine getting rid of weather, as it is like you said a core element, but weather is finally reaching the point of what it is supposed to be. An addon to a deck, not an auto include.
 
Good move nerfing weather CDPR. Now take your time, think about if non-symmetrical weather and the end of weather immunity are maybe one of the biggest reasons why weather was used in so many decks and create a new weather system, which allows (real)weather decks to be viable (but not OP of course) and at the same moment limits the number of decks, which play weather.

edit: I'd like to see more interesting synergies with weather instead of weather spamming cards like wild hunt hound.
 
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Ebola131;n9070610 said:
I don't understand how nerfing the easiest and most boring archetype in the game is simplifying the game. Weather was always the least favorite deck to play against, as it requires almost no thinking from the player. You won't see any advanced player whining about the nerf, at least from none who isn't weather main (but i'm not sure if you can call those people advanced). Not only it opens doors for more variety in the decks, but it is incredibly healthy for the game. I don't imagine getting rid of weather, as it is like you said a core element, but weather is finally reaching the point of what it is supposed to be. An addon to a deck, not an auto include.

Definitely not the most boring archetype in the game, you can do a lot of different and intelligent plays, it's sadly that ''most'' weather players indeed play the simplified version of those decks. so I understand the players that find those weather decks annoying to play against, personally I loved Eredin/Dagon Mirror matches, especially against a simplified weather player, I've never lost against Weather once. if you know how to play against weather..really it ain't all that much.

I'm okay with the new weather changes (don't get me wrong) but the additional hits to the Wild Hunt archetype were redundant. CDPR needs to find a way to make Dagon/Eredin/Wild Hunt decks viable again, and preferably WITHOUT weather, and for that we need new cards, new support so that those Archetypes are able to keep up without needing Weather..because Weather was pretty much the only strong plays decks like Dagon and Eredin had going for them. I suspect both won't see much play this patch.

i'm curious to see CDPR next move with the Wild Hunt Archetype.
 
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DarkShuyin;n9070130 said:
Weather is one of the core elements of Gwent, it's one of the things that separates this CCG from others and gives the game depth, and you should be proud of that. Of course Weather is an auto-include in Dagon/Eredin decks. that's the whole point of their archetype, without it these decks don't run as their archetypes were designed for resulting in those decks not being able to stand up to NR/NG/SK anymore. And people SHOULD side deck cards for those situations. it's why side decking exists in card games in the first place. It forces a player to always think of the next step, the next strategy, what to expect.

I respect the work you're doing though, decks should be evenly matched, and right now they're not. not even close.
Proud of what? I'm in since early CB and if they ever announce "we decided to remove weather from the game" i would be happy. Because weather is a balancing nightmare. It's either godly or garbage, there is no inbetween. You either have these meta where you can't expect to win unless you run 4+ weather clearers or the CB metas where weather was garbage and see no play (example: last CB patch, the ST control/monster consume/henselt promote trinity). And after playing gwent 7+ months i can safely tell you that i prefer when weather is garbage.
Hopefully this patch will do it's work and i will be able to finally try winning a game in casual without the need of 4+ anti-weather cards.
 
DMaster2;n9072300 said:
It's either godly or garbage, there is no inbetween.

That's because you, and more importantly, CDPR are not thinking outside of the box. There are so many shapes weather can take outside of its damaging ability. For example, realistic weather. Sure, it does a 180 on the game. However, weather is not beyond saving. So much potential...
 
DMaster2;n9072300 said:
Proud of what? I'm in since early CB and if they ever announce "we decided to remove weather from the game" i would be happy. Because weather is a balancing nightmare. It's either godly or garbage, there is no inbetween. You either have these meta where you can't expect to win unless you run 4+ weather clearers or the CB metas where weather was garbage and see no play (example: last CB patch, the ST control/monster consume/henselt promote trinity). And after playing gwent 7+ months i can safely tell you that i prefer when weather is garbage.
Hopefully this patch will do it's work and i will be able to finally try winning a game in casual without the need of 4+ anti-weather cards.

And you think that with this new meta side decking will disappear? you'd still run D.Shackles for those annoying golds, you'd still run Madroeme for that Spotter or D.Protector. Now people will side deck against other stuff that this meta will bring forth, it changes nothing. and that is normal, side decking belongs in every CCG. eventually something will turn up this meta which will impact and dominate the meta maybe even more than weather did. (keep your eyes out for NR)

Weather was never really the problem anyway, out of all the decks in Gwent, Weather is probably one of the easiest decks to counter. I also started during CB and I've never lost a match against weather, not ever. because I know how it works and how to counter it. it's all a game of bluff in the end.

I only really process Monster cards at this point and bits and pieces of other factions, this Hotfix pretty much killed my own deck to it not being playable anymore and don't have the scraps to make a new deck. so i'll be observing the meta a different way, still very curious to see what it will bring forth.

I have faith in CDPR regardless!
 
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DarkShuyin;n9073070 said:
And you think that with this new meta side decking will disappear? you'd still run D.Shackles for those annoying golds, you'd still run Madroeme for that Spotter or D.Protector. Now people will side deck against other stuff that this meta will bring forth, it changes nothing. and that is normal, side decking belongs in every CCG. eventually something will turn up this meta which will impact and dominate the meta maybe even more than weather did. (keep your eyes out for NR)

Weather was never really the problem anyway, out of all the decks in Gwent, Weather is probably one of the easiest decks to counter. I also started during CB and I've never lost a match against weather, not ever. because I know how it works and how to counter it. it's all a game of bluff in the end.

I only really process Monster cards at this point and bits and pieces of other factions, this Hotfix pretty much killed my own deck to it not being playable anymore and don't have the scraps to make a new deck. so i'll be observing the meta a different way, still very curious to see what it will bring forth.

I have faith in CDPR regardless!

If you think that weather was never a problem you clearly did not play the game much or you are one of those weather mains who do not see anything wrong with it. Of course I can go 7 cards that remove weather and I'm most likely never gonna lose vs it. I hope I don't have to explain why it is not the way to build a deck. As i mentioned in an earlier post, weather is supposed to be an addon, not an auto include. Weather was always one of the easiest ways to play the game (in my opinion the easiest) and the most oppressive, none will tell you otherwise (except weather mains, but screw them). Spamming weather onto an enemy board for an easy overtime dmg is no fun for both players. Losing round 1, because you are playing vs weather and you just happened not to draw any removals is no fun. Weather is brainless effect spamming that requires little to no strategy and if anyone says otherwise I do not expect much of them as a player.

As for side decking, I do not use any special cards in most of my decks (with an exception to the Alzur's thunder). The only cards that I have to auto include are weather removals, as playing without them with the current weather would not be possible. They are also my weakest point of the deck as they are mostly useless when playing against players who do not rely on weather to win them the game. So getting rid of them would be awsome. That's what CDPR is aiming for and I couldn't be happier.

I think everyone knows how weather works and how to counter it. There is nothing magical about it and little to no strategy involved. The problem is auto wasting your slots for the removal effect.

I can't deny that Wild Hunt decks have been nerfed to oblivion, but that was ment to happen. Relying on weather to do most of your job was never supposed to be the way to play this game. Caranthir was probably the best gold in the game, so the nerf was just a matter of time. As for monster decks, Consume Archetype is still one of the best in the game.

The weather changes are more than welcome by anyone other than weather mains and as for those people opinions I couldn't care less.
 
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Ebola131;n9073390 said:
If you think that weather was never a problem you clearly did not play the game much or you are one of those weather mains who do not see anything wrong with it. Of course I can go 7 cards that remove weather and I'm most likely never gonna lose vs it. I hope I don't have to explain why it is not the way to build a deck. As i mentioned in an earlier post, weather is supposed to be an addon, not an auto include. Weather was always one of the easiest ways to play the game (in my opinion the easiest) and the most oppressive, none will tell you otherwise (except weather mains, but screw them). Spamming weather onto an enemy board for an easy overtime dmg is no fun for both players. Losing round 1, because you are playing vs weather and you just happened not to draw any removals is no fun. Weather is brainless effect spamming that requires little to no strategy and if anyone says otherwise I do not expect much of them as a player.

As for side decking, I do not use any special cards in most of my decks (with an exception to the Alzur's thunder). The only cards that I have to auto include are weather removals, as playing without them with the current weather would not be possible. They are also my weakest point of the deck as they are mostly useless when playing against players who do not rely on weather to win them the game. So getting rid of them would be awsome. That's what CDPR is aiming for and I couldn't be happier.

I think everyone knows how weather works and how to counter it. There is nothing magical about it and little to no strategy involved. The problem is auto wasting your slots for the removal effect.

I can't deny that Wild Hunt decks have been nerfed to oblivion, but that was ment to happen. Relying on weather to do most of your job was never supposed to be the way to play this game. Caranthir was probably the best gold in the game, so the nerf was just a matter of time. As for monster decks, Consume Archetype is still one of the best in the game.

The weather changes are more than welcome by anyone other than weather mains and as for those people opinions I couldn't care less.

1: Right back at you, if you DO think weather was that much of a problem I don't consider you a good player either, Now i'm not the casual weather scrub that implies that weather was okay the way it was (it's not) the problem was more the cards that abused weather. don't get me wrong, i'm fine with the frost hit. destroying the entire archetype with it however, i'm not fine with.
(P.S I didn't have weather removal in my deck ;) weather can be countered by many ways)

2: I agree, different for the Wild Hunt archetype though (if we're talking just Frost) CDPR designed that archetype to run with the Frost engine, take that engine out and the deck literally dies. so for Wild Hunt it was designed as an auto-include and i'm pretty sure CDPR designed it that way, maybe a misplay from their side. I also hear that people view it as the ''easiest way to play'' and yes sadly that is true, it's a very straightforward tactic for the regular player, I played it differently though. I used cards that other weather players weren't even running (as I mentioned my methods regarding evaiding weather are..rogue-ish compared to your regular weather player) it can be played at a very intelligent level, though sadly because of it's..straightforwardness..it got abused.

3: That's how I feel when my entire hand is revealed against a Nilfgard player, yet they get buffed. tell me, how is it ''fun'' to play against someone who knows exactly what you're playing and can play accordingly? how is that not ''oppressive''?

I like Deckbuilding and making stuff that no one else has thought of, been this way with many card games. won many tournaments as a result too. either CDPR needs to balance weather in a good way without totally killing it, or they need to make archtypes like Dagon Fog and Eredin Frost viable without needing the weather cards.
 
scorba;n9064840 said:
NR was already very strong, only it wasn't that obvious because they were complicated decks, but they were strong.
after this patch, NR will be the next broken faction.

Have you played the NR faction lately? Their Trebuchets and Ballistas used to ignore armor, now they don't. That is, a Ballista will no longer insta-remove an Axeman, even a double-reinforced Ballista will no longer remove a Behemoth etc. You might well argue this is a NERF rather than a BUFF to NR.
 
DarkShuyin;n9073070 said:
And you think that with this new meta side decking will disappear? you'd still run D.Shackles for those annoying golds, you'd still run Madroeme for that Spotter or D.Protector. Now people will side deck against other stuff that this meta will bring forth, it changes nothing. and that is normal, side decking belongs in every CCG. eventually something will turn up this meta which will impact and dominate the meta maybe even more than weather did. (keep your eyes out for NR)

Weather was never really the problem anyway, out of all the decks in Gwent, Weather is probably one of the easiest decks to counter. I also started during CB and I've never lost a match against weather, not ever. because I know how it works and how to counter it. it's all a game of bluff in the end.

I only really process Monster cards at this point and bits and pieces of other factions, this Hotfix pretty much killed my own deck to it not being playable anymore and don't have the scraps to make a new deck. so i'll be observing the meta a different way, still very curious to see what it will bring forth.

I have faith in CDPR regardless!
I don't care if they use mardroeme or d-shackles. Because at least those are risky techs, unlike current weather where you are actually stupid if you don't use it yourself you can get screwed if you get those techs vs the wrong decks.
Sure mardroeme can destroy spotters, but if i run my morkvarg buff deck (or emhyr bouncing stuff, etc...) it's a pointless card.
Weather IS a problem, recognised even by the developers. If you think otherwise then you are the one at fault.
Lastly, if weather was that easy to counter axeman sk wouldn't be the top deck in the game, don't you think?
 
DarkShuyin;n9073070 said:
I only really process Monster cards at this point and bits and pieces of other factions, this Hotfix pretty much killed my own deck to it not being playable anymore and don't have the scraps to make a new deck. so i'll be observing the meta a different way, still very curious to see what it will bring forth.

About this, you can sell all nerfed/changed cards for full value, so you can actually make any deck you want.
Ofc it sucks being forced to change deck

Agree also with main thought.

Frost hit, needed.
But why fog and rain?
In this way also units that move are worth almost nothing in weather monsters.
Canthahir with frost nerf is already worth much less, now he cannot setup huge lacerates as well.

And I do not even play weather, but it is clearly an over-nerf when really only what was very bad was frost.
 
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