Health: regen or stimpack?

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To be fair, if you have debt collectors after you, you should expect to pay up or fight. I agree that it's important to have multiple ways of handling a situation due to different play styles, but some things simply don't change.

Anyway, I think missions that let you collect part of the reward in advance should be purely situational based on the NPCs giving the mission and the mission itself. It would be better to just leave a feature like that out entirely. Loan sharks on the other hand, could be an acceptable way of incorporating a "debt" feature.
 
I hope having armed debt collectors after you IS likely to lead to "you're dead - restart the game".
But at the same time I'm trying to keep the way people tend to play games in mind.
And I can already hear the crowds roaring in outrage because the game "unfairly" "punished" them by sending collection team after collection team after them to the point they died because of something as "stupid" and "unrealistic" as not repaying a debt.
Good design strategy to just not open your game to such problems in the first place by not allowing debt or pre-payment.
It's all about target audience at this point. You take loan in the first place, meaning it's your conscious decision to do so. There should be incentive to pay that debt and dying is the best reason there can be (or, in this system, bodily harm that takes a long while to heal), aside from having to pay even more money back as time passes. You should be able to pay without problems, provided you have the money (or, if you can't pay it fully, then at least keep paying your installments regularly). It's walking away that ought to be a problem, so I can't agree it's a good decision to remove the reason to pay the loans. You can't eat the cookie and have the cookie, so should you consider appeasing to people who are... unreasonable, to put it mildly?
 
Oh I agree it can be done in such a way the majority of the target audience has no issues with it.
Guess I'm too use to thinking in terms of the larger audience and how they will react to things.
Much the same way free-for-all-PvP while great and realistic in concept never seems to work in application due to the abuses of a minority.
 
Health regeneration sounds like it would fit this game better.

Nope.
CP2020 you get hurt you're out of action for days/weeks. I really hope it's the same with CP2077.
Combat is NOT something you should engage in lightly. It's most healthy for you if you arrange to kill them before they get off a single shot.
 
Nope.
CP2020 you get hurt you're out of action for days/weeks. I really hope it's the same with CP2077.
Combat is NOT something you should engage in lightly. It's most healthy for you if you arrange to kill them before they get off a single shot.

 
Both with ways to upgrade them later. It should also be tied to character class. I do not expect a nethacker to regenerate, but someone who is in combat all the time probably got all sorts of medical implants in them. Being to buy cybernetic or bio implants to make you more than human is the whole point.
 
I did a post a while back on the medical implants available in CP2020, and they cut down recuperation time TREMENDOUSLY, from weeks/months to days.
But there's no way you're going to see healing in mere seconds. First off where the hell is the energy and materials to rebuild an injury coming from? Thin air?
 
I could see multiple solutions to health as different implants. Various implants for regeneration that probably involves nanomachines and requires some kind of energy recharge regularly to keep working, and then another implant option that automatically or manually injects/applies various healing items and drugs as needed. OR... You could always have a life insurance policy with Trauma Team/REO Meatwagon that gives you a device or implant you can use to automatically or manually call them when needy for a speedy escape/assist/patchjob for a modestly expensive regular fee.
 
I could live with a slow regeneration... but of course it would not really be... optimum to have it. I guess the biggest upside to it would be a reduction in reloads due to deaths. But yeah, regeneration is a bit of a cringy thing to have in games like this.

But I know how bad it can be to be put out of action for prolonged periods of time... especially in the pnp rpg's I am used to playing. Since my experience with pnp RPG'ing is mostly with Swedish pnp rpg's, which in general are very unforgiving when it comes to taking damage.

Especially one Swedish game is VERY unforgiving, one called "Eon" (only exists in Swedish, no English version)... where something as "useless" as a regular dagger can with skill and some luck be extreamly deadly... heck even a random stone you picked up could potentually kill someone. You could even if your really lucky punch through plate armour with that dagger. Becase that games system is based around rolling so called "infinite D6's". What that means is that for every 6 you roll, you pick up the dice which rolled a 6 (leave the other on the table as they are), and add another D6 to your hand, and then roll these two dices, and you keep doing that untill you have no more 6's rolled. If your damage is 3D6, and all 3 dices rolled a 6, then you would pick up all 3 dices, and add 3 more dices, which would result in you rolling 6 dices, and if any of those where a 6 again it would be picked up and the same amount of new dices would be added, etc. In this way, a weapon like a dagger could take down any opponent no matter how well protected it was from armour.

On top of that, the injury system in the game is... probably one of the most realistic injury systems I have ever played... extreamly detailed... not to mention HIGHLY leathal. Roll high enough on the damage dices and you cause "critical injuries" (for every 10 points of damage that goes through armour, you do one critical injury on the location you hit, on just the arm you have the shoulder, upper arm, elbow, lower arm, wrist, and hand, as specific hit locations... on your head you have face, neck, and skull... the lower abdomen hit location does include critical hits which happend to your genitalia... like the ones called long or deep wound/lesion). Even just 1 single critical hit, in the right (or wrong... depending on point of view) hit location, and the right critical hit (each hit location have 3 different critical hit's tables with 10 possible outcomes in each, where each of those 3 tables represent 1 kind of injury type, so cutting (slashing or chopping can also work as name here), crushing and stabbing types of damage) as well... can be pretty much certain death. Bleeding in the game is absolutly deadly... I have had more characters die, or have cause more enemies to die, from bleeding... then any other type of damage in the game (like from pure Trauma for example)... an arterial bleeding is bad... hitting the heart is of course worse... the brain critical hit is not a very good one either. :p Especially weapons that cause stabbing type of damage has a higher chance of causing bleeding. Cutting/chopping is the a general kind of damage, where it can cause a more varied types of injuries (anything from bleeding, to cutting things of, etc). Where as Crushing damage tend to have a higher chance to break bone and such, or cause one of the absolutly worse critical injuries you can get.. internal bleeding, because the only way to fix that is either by natural healing (which is to slow for you to survive it), or have a surgeon at hand that can operate... which is a problem since this is basicly a medieval setting, and surgeons are pretty few, if not highly expensive to pay for their service. And even if you did survive these injuries... you could still die if you got unlucky and your wounds got infected as well. The different types of damage in the game that you can get is "Trauma", "Pain", "Bloodloss speed" (how fast you lose blood), and "Bloodloss" (how much blood you have lost). The only ones of these that do not kill you is Pain... well... technicly Bloodloss speed as well... but yeah since that is connected to bloodloss it's self... Pain is the only one you can not die from. XD

As for recovery... your looking at several days maybe a week or so for minor amounts of Trauma (this injury type is the one that takes the longest to heal up)... but have a semi-serious amount of injury and your looking at several weeks at the very least, if not a few months. Even a very successful outcome to a combat could still result in some of the characters being out for weeks. And all of that is with the asumtion that your actually in bed resting, with someone skilled looking after you. Because natural healing is halved if your up and about doing things, like adventuring or what ever. And even if you ignore bedrest, and continued to play anyway, you would be seriously hampered... since for every X amount of Trauma, Pain, Bloodloss, or Exhaustion (which you get from doing actions in combat, or walking long distances, or doing other extranious things), you will have additional D6's added to the amount of D6's you need to roll to try and succedde with certain/most/all skills. The base difficulty is 3D6's... where you need to roll equal or lower then your skill level (you can max buy 15 from the start, but that's highly expensive if you try to get it in more then 2-3 skills, you would be seriously hampered in other skills then)... if you reached the first threshhold for let's say just Trauma and Pain, your normal difficulty of 3D6's would now suddenly be 5D6's... The average role of 5 infinite D6's in Eon is 18.75... and that's not a bet your going to be willing to take that you will succedde with... going into combat like that and your screwed.

So yeah... I am very used to highly deadly combat in pnp rpg's, due to the pnp rpg's I play... but having something like this for a computer game is not... well... fun in the long run. Sure it could be cool to actually have injuries that mattered in the game, where you could be out for a long time, or you could get permanent injuries due to it... but I only really seeing that work for certain types of games. Like RimWorld (their latest Alpha include actual injuries that can become permanent if your doctor does not fix it in time... or a leg or arm being shot of compleatly... losing eyes... ears.. noses... fingers... toes... etc)... and the upcoming "Mordheim: City of the Damned" game will also include permanebt injuries (like losing part of a leg so you need to use a pegleg etc)... but that works for those kinds of game.

For a game like what 2077 will probably be... it does not work that well I think. It would be realistic of course... but sometimes realism is just not the way to go. And unfortunatly I think that 2077 will have to maybe go away from realism in this case... it's sad, but unless they come up with some really smart way to deal with it, they are going to have to include some kind of healing mechanics that speeds it up considerably.
 
Especially one Swedish game is VERY unforgiving, one called "Eon" (only exists in Swedish, no English version)... ...that games system is based around rolling so called "infinite D6's". What that means is that for every 6 you roll, you pick up the dice which rolled a 6 (leave the other on the table as they are), and add another D6 to your hand, and then roll these two dices, and you keep doing that untill you have no more 6's rolled. If your damage is 3D6, and all 3 dices rolled a 6, then you would pick up all 3 dices, and add 3 more dices, which would result in you rolling 6 dices, and if any of those where a 6 again it would be picked up and the same amount of new dices would be added, etc. In this way, a weapon like a dagger could take down any opponent no matter how well protected it was from armour.
Holy crap, I don't think I could play in a system like that due to lack of dice, and I have 16 D6's! O-O
 
Holy crap, I don't think I could play in a system like that due to lack of dice, and I have 16 D6's! O-O

16 D6's sounds like it would be enough really in most cases.

Granted, if your a really strong and possibly agile character as well (since Strength alone gives you your base for crushing damage, agility alone gives your base for stabbing damage, and strength+agility/2 gives your base for slashing damage), and then equipted with some of the most powerful weapons in the game, combined with possibly a few weapon-martial arts type of skills, and then doing a "heavy attack" (which increases damage with 1D6, but the enemy will easier be able to win back initiativ in the next turn), and adding a "perfect" roll for your hit roll as well (which adds another 2D6 to your damage roll)... your looking at anything from 9-12 dices worth of damage here... and you roll a lot of 6's, then your 16 dices might be lacking yes. XD

In my standard kit I bring with me when we play pnp rpg's I of course have a slew of various kinds of dices, from the D3, up to the D20, I also bring with me a small plastic "box" (think it was origionally ment for picture slide's) with 11 black D6's (my "damage dices", these are my favorit D6 dices), 8 white dices (my "to hit dices"), and 8 dark "melange" coloured dices (my "just in case both my black and white dices run out as I am rolling a roll where lot's of 6's come up"... or my "just in case my two other coloured dices roll really bad and I feel like mixing it up just to break the bad rolling streak"-dices).

On top of that though... I do own something like 250-270'ish other white D6's of the same kind that I bring with me... it was sort of an impuls buy some 12-14 years ago. XD I actually bought my 11 black D6's at the same time actually.
 
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You can roll a single D6 as many times as you like. Just remember to write down the outcomes. It sounds like a very interesting system.
 
You can roll a single D6 as many times as you like. Just remember to write down the outcomes. It sounds like a very interesting system.

This is true.

I guess the downside of this system is that it can be extreamly daunting for a beginner to get started with. Since it is very rules heavy, a huge amount of optional rules that make the game even more realistic and detailed, and/or more deadly. The deadlyness in combat can of course also be a downside for people, since what ever you do that could potentually injure you, could also kill you if your unlucky, even if you play highly tactical and try to avoid damage at all costs... it only takes one unlucky hit for your guy to go down permanently. The past about 18 or so years has been riddled with a huge amounts of dead player characters due to something like that, I have even had characters die in the first "testing out, easy enemy, combat" thing. And making a character is not very quick either, your going to spend at the elast an hour on it, if not 2, and I usually have teken longer... much longer. Combat is no quick process either, probably one of the slower pnp rpg combats I have experienced... so a lot of people do not like it due to that. But unlike for example the quick but extreamly undescriptive combat you have in a DnD, Eons combat is extreamly descriptive in the sence that you know exacly why you missed, hit, did damage, etc. You basicly get a small combat story from it where each attack, parry, block, other manouvers, if the armour saved you after you failed to parry/block the opponents hit, etc... is clearly visible to you.

Anyway... I have derailed the thread a bit I think. XD

CP2020. I think I have read that CP2020 is also a very deadly game, and as such it would be propper to make 2077 deadly to, but it goes back again to that without something like a regen mechanics, or other kinds of healing system, games that deadly tend to turn into a big reloading fest of a game. Not that I do not reload a lot as it is, and I do not mind reloading... but others do have a problem with it.

So it's a difficult choice... to have health regen or something else that is not really all to realistic for the game... or be compleatly realistic and spend X amount of time replaying the same areas over and over untill you finally manage to squeeze through without dieing.
 
You can roll a single D6 as many times as you like. Just remember to write down the outcomes. It sounds like a very interesting system.

This is true.

I guess the downside of this system is that it can be extreamly daunting for a beginner to get started with. Since it is very rules heavy, a huge amount of optional rules that make the game even more realistic and detailed, and/or more deadly. The deadlyness in combat can of course also be a downside for people, since what ever you do that could potentually injure you, could also kill you if your unlucky, even if you play highly tactical and try to avoid damage at all costs... it only takes one unlucky hit for your guy to go down permanently. The past about 18 or so years has been riddled with a huge amounts of dead player characters due to something like that, I have even had characters die in the first "testing out, easy enemy, combat" thing. And making a character is not very quick either, your going to spend at the elast an hour on it, if not 2, and I usually have teken longer... much longer. Combat is no quick process either, probably one of the slower pnp rpg combats I have experienced... so a lot of people do not like it due to that. But unlike for example the quick but extreamly undescriptive combat you have in a DnD, Eons combat is extreamly descriptive in the sence that you know exacly why you missed, hit, did damage, etc. You basicly get a small combat story from it where each attack, parry, block, other manouvers, if the armour saved you after you failed to parry/block the opponents hit, etc... is clearly visible to you.

Anyway... I have derailed the thread a bit I think. XD

CP2020. I think I have read that CP2020 is also a very deadly game, and as such it would be propper to make 2077 deadly to, but it goes back again to that without something like a regen mechanics, or other kinds of healing system, games that deadly tend to turn into a big reloading fest of a game. Not that I do not reload a lot as it is, and I do not mind reloading... but others do have a problem with it.

So it's a difficult choice... to have health regen or something else that is not really all to realistic for the game... or be compleatly realistic and spend X amount of time replaying the same areas over and over untill you finally manage to squeeze through without dieing.
 
CP2020. I think I have read that CP2020 is also a very deadly game, and as such it would be propper to make 2077 deadly to, but it goes back again to that without something like a regen mechanics, or other kinds of healing system, games that deadly tend to turn into a big reloading fest of a game. Not that I do not reload a lot as it is, and I do not mind reloading... but others do have a problem with it.
Human body basically regenerates itself over time and there many in-game means to speed up the process (I won't list them here). Provided you have the money for it. In worst case you could bandage yourself into stable state and use bed in your apartment to enter into recovery mode. Based on the level of medical aid you've received you'd then raise from the bed healthy, but X hours/days later.
 
Depends on the severity of the original injury too Safe-r.
Band-aids and aspirin won't fix a Mortal wound.
 
Trauma Team and the ability to get a taxi (which will drive you to a hospital or nearest medic) should cover this. By "bandaging yourself into stable state" I mostly meant stuff like losing blood or covering wounds to prevent possible infections.
 
That sounds pretty reasonable to me actually. Where ever you go to "heal your self", be it at your home, the hospital, your local pet hospital, underground doctors... or what ever... your ingame time will be pushed forward... let's say 8 hour, and you come out patched up.

Now... I don't think I would neccessarily allow full recovery instantly, atleast not for all larger injuries. All the small scrapes, bruises and wounds could be gone maybe(if they leave scars or not could I guess depend on various things... like if leftover scars from wounds is a thing CDPR would want to add to the game). But larger things, like semi to fully leathal wounds, injured organs, bad levels of bloodloss, etc... could maybe persist for some time into the game. How long I don't know, maybe semi-serious stuff could still effect you a little maybe 8-16 hours after you where let out of hospital (so a total of 16-24 hours fromthe moment you got to the hospital or something). Where as the sevear stuff could maybe last longer, like upp to 2 days or something.

Of course, I would also maybe have how well you get healed up, and how long the after effects will last befor your "fully healed", be dependent on atleast 2 things.

1: Where did you go to get fixed up? Was it an actual hospital? Or did you stagger in to the local petstore/vet to get helpe? Or did you just stumble home, take a good gulp of some rotgut you have lying around to numb the pain, try to stitch the wound up your self, wrap your wound with some towl you found, down a bunch of pills you found in your medicine box, another big gulp of rotgut, think "that... should do... right?", get to bed and fall unconcious for several hours.

2: How much cash do you have, what level of quality can/are you willing to pay for when you get rolled in, and/or pay to stay anonymous? Or in case of if it's your home, what quality of medication and equipment do you actually have at home, and how much?

So... the better the place is that you go to, the more you pay for it, the better it is going to be for you. The more base "health" you have when you come out of it 8 hours later, and the shorter time the after effects will last. Hospital should be the best of course, at home or some alleyway "doctor" should be the worst, with "at home" being able to get better depending on what level of reasources your willing to maintain, up to a somewhat reasonable standard... but it should never be equal or better then hospital.

There could maybe also be other kinds of consequences based on where you went. Going to a hospital is not always a good idea after all... especialy if we asume that in CP2020/2077 hospitals still have a responsability to call the police if someone with gunshot wounds comes in, but even if not... Hospitals are very public places, being recognized is a high risk... and maybe if you do not have any money at all they either just barelly fix you up so you will survive, or just flat out refuse to take you in, and paying for anonymity should be highly costly if it was an option. Where as if you go to your local vet your more likely to go unnoticed, but the quality of the "work" the vet does on you is not as good as at the hospital clearly, and if you have no money you maybe had to threaten the vet's life to get them to work on you (which could result in the vet sending some "friends" to "deal" with you later), or you promised the vet a favour sometime in the future (which the vet WILL cash in eventually... maybe some difficult mission or something where it's going to cost you more then the visit to the vet was maybe worth). And of course "at home" would be the one where the chance of the worst type of "healing" happends (if you do not maintain good stuff), the recovery time after be possibly the longest as well, but your the most likely to go unnoticed with only small to no ill effects outside of the health thing... maybe a small chance that the "enemy" finds your home possibly though.
 
Of course, I would also maybe have how well you get healed up, and how long the after effects will last befor your "fully healed", be dependent on atleast 2 things. [,,,] [+ plus a lot of good stuf written down]
It was a given, but I appreciate you writing it down in detail. It's an enjoyable to read and well caught (as well as including the extra risk of visiting a public hospital as an example of why visiting one might not be the best idea at all times, despite high care standard in exchange higher price tag).
 
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