Sorry but that's just a poor excuse for poor game design. When you and I go out in public we see "skin color, eyes, shape, nose" for every individual....we do not see their genitals.
I dunno.... we might be attending different beaches...
Jokes aside though, there's a couple things here.
One, it's not about about what other people see in public; you can be naked at home, when you shower, get changed, etc., and obviously you can see your body in those instances - so there is an immersion factor there. The bit that's maybe poor game design in my mind is the fact that even with the nudity censor turned off, your character is still censored outside the inventory screen, even in their own home. To me that's a bit immersion breaking but not a big deal. The only other bit that's poor game design is the fact that they've determined gender by voice - they should've made gender it's own independent setting.
Secondly, it's not simply about aesthetics for everyone; it can also be the
knowledge that your body is what it is and how that makes you feel represented and validated. I'll go into more detail on that in a bit though...
You do not need a genital slider for representation.
I agree, you don't
need to see your character's genitals to represent trans and cis people - again, I think they should have made gender identity an independent attribute you select anyway. At the same time, I don't see why it's necessary to censor? Isn't the nudity censor good enough for that purpose?
You could make the same argument that you don't actually need to see your character
at all to represent everyone, and just ditch the character creator completely and replace it with a form players fill out, where they simply choose a bunch of
facts about their character e.g. "skin colour=brown", "biological sex=female", "gender identity=fluid", etc., and basically imagine what they look like. I mean... that's not an approach I have any interest in, but you'd still be allowing players to represent themselves I guess. Personally though, I like the tangibility of a CC where I can actually see and hear them. To me, it makes it more real and immersive.
Representing ppl with big/small genitals or breasts? really mate? That's your argument?
When I said genital slider, I just meant being able to choose whether you've got a vagina or a penis. But, since you brought it up, sure, I'm fine with being able to customise these things beyond that. I really don't see how it's any different to being able to pick what kind of nose you have. It's just anatomy.
As for why I think inclusivity and representing people in all shapes and sizes is a good thing... I mean, god, where to I even begin?
Can we start with some basic empathy?
Can you imagine being someone who has low self-esteem and depression because they've been made to feel bad about themselves? They might have insecurities about the size of their boobs, the way their genitals look, their skin colour, their height, their body weight, etc.
Can you appreciate how uplifting it can be for that person to play a game where the main character can look like them?
Going back to what I was saying about feeling represented and validated - I'll try walking through an example. It's hard to simulate decades of life, so this'll be a little truncated. Imagine being a trans woman. You've watched films like Ace Ventura or The Hangover II, etc. - where there are gags which
depend on the audience thinking women with penises are weird in order for them to find said gags funny. You've lived in a society where it's mainstream to mock and ridicule people like yourself, and it starts to wear you down, like death by a thousand cuts. That mainstream mock and ridicule has influence on the way people treat you in person. Eventually you watch Orange is the New Black - you find out one of the characters is trans, just like you... but they're
not the butt of a cheap joke. They're a real human being written with as much care and consideration as any other character. You start to see attitudes change a little in the rest of society as well. You feel more accepted - and despite the occasional cries of "this is woke liberal bullshit!" - the ruffled feathers are worth it because now you feel more validated and a little bit safer walking down the street.
IMO, that's why representation matters.
For that woman to play V as someone who's physically similar to themselves, a character whose story
doesn't revolve around their gender identity, who isn't mistreated over their anatomy, where their genitals don't function as a gag in the story, but is instead an
incidental part of who they are.... well, that must feel incredibly
normalising.
As for whether or not genitals should be censored in the CC, I think there's some valid discussion to be had there. But I think credit has to be given to Cyberpunk's CC for not feeling sexualised or exploitative in any way... to me, it just feels anatomical really - which is part of where that normalising effect comes from. I think that's a positive thing.
Is there an alternative way of doing that without showing them? An independent pronoun setting might've been sufficient? But as effective? I'm not so sure. Either way, I just don't see anything wrong with them being there.
As you said in your very comment, if representation was the aim then a body slider would have been the more sensible choice.
Sensible? What does that have to do with trans representation? When I said body-slider I meant for representing lean/fat/muscular/thin bodies.
I'm surprised you didn't suggest something more obvious: like having a setting that lets you choose V's pronouns and another that lets you pick whether they're cis/trans. You can make the case for no genital slider then.
This has nothing to do with "ppl being in their heads" and virtue signaling in an attempt to make it about that is disappointing and sad.
Are you sure you know what virtue signalling is?
For anyone who doesn't know, it's basically where you try to show off how "virtuous" you are for the sole purpose of looking good to others. Moral grandstanding basically. From what I've seen, accusing people of virtue signaling typically happens when the accuser gets the ick over the other person's liberal views and is basically an ad hominem tactic.
Not sure how me supporting representation is moral grandstanding or an attempt to win cool points. I promise you, every time I talk about something like this on this forum, I
fully expect it to be UNpopular. I
know it's gonna piss some people off. I'm not talking about this to look like a goody two-shoes. I don't get a dopamine hit from this; quite the opposite actually.
Drained is the word. In spite of that, I post anyway because I'm not apathetic and I actually do care. I've been on the receiving end of discrimination my whole life and empathise with others who've been through similar. I have a front row seat on the difference negative and positive representation makes. I know what the before and after feels like.
One of the best things about videogames with character creators is how it can make anyone feel like the hero. Calling "virtue signaling" just feels like an attempt to shut down a thing you don't like. But why? It doesn't hurt you in any way; it just makes more people feel accepted.
