For me this patch feels much more like Gwent than the patches before, which might be mainly due to the fact that having so many changed/new things is what feels like playing Gwent for me.
After this patches so many Meta things changed that I have to figure out complete new archetypes and once more there are cards worth to collect.
Of course there are some things that I dislike, the interface is not perfect and I still prefer the old one, and I greatly dislike all the spawn cards and that a lot fo cards were simplified. But all in all, after the patch hit, it feels much better than what I expected from the life streams.
And concerning Skellige Bears, it is my favourite deck to play against so far. It has hardly any removal and the setup isn't that great either, so all there is is a quite constant heigh strength output. As I'm a player who loves long setups, this is my perfect opponent.
After this patches so many Meta things changed that I have to figure out complete new archetypes and once more there are cards worth to collect.
Of course there are some things that I dislike, the interface is not perfect and I still prefer the old one, and I greatly dislike all the spawn cards and that a lot fo cards were simplified. But all in all, after the patch hit, it feels much better than what I expected from the life streams.
And concerning Skellige Bears, it is my favourite deck to play against so far. It has hardly any removal and the setup isn't that great either, so all there is is a quite constant heigh strength output. As I'm a player who loves long setups, this is my perfect opponent.
For me it is not about the patch, it is more like... the game has no foundations, and this just became more visible. Please don't hate me for references to HS... 
So for example you have heroes, which abilities differ just for tiny bits, for example one can deal 1 damage to any minion, the other can deal 2 damage but only to the face. On the other side of the spectrum you have healing 2 to any minion or gaining 2 armor for the hero. Then in the middle you have all those other option, like deal 1 damage and get 1 armor.
So basically, even though it is not written anywhere, you have this feeling that there is an invisible "deal damage - heal" axis, so in other words there is a foundation. And that transforms into clear "aggro - control" axis, which are very nice archetypes and gives you a clue about how to play the opponent. In Gwent, well there are no archetypes - at least not like this. It is more like "keyword based" archetypes, which is great for single player, don't get me wrong - I would love to see like a battle against bears in Thronebreaker, which has some serious story behind it, like "when you wander around, you stumbled upon a pack of bears" or something, but this wouldn't work for multiplayer card game. For me, right now Gwent is kind of like a great "RPG with cards" game, something a bit like Heroes of Might and Magic, not a competitive card game like HS.
Also, this game - to me, I'm not an expert - feels like it is not balanced, but in terms of rules. Having three rounds is very asymmetrical and this is totally not addressed. It is not about who goes first, it is more about who wins the first round and play last card. Seriously, think about it. Maybe somebody who knows something about Game Theory could say if this game is fair?
Maybe they can introduce healing? This might at least give us "healing - dealing damage" axis, and the fraction abilities could be like "heal 4 to any card", or "heal 1 to all units on the row", and on the other side "deal 4 damage to a unit" or "deal 1 damage to all units", which would make me feel like there is a backbone to the game. And then we would have real archetypes, like more aggressive and more passive.
Oh, and for example, what is tempo in Gwent? Because for me it is basically a play which gives you advantage in points, that's it. And what is the point of second round? Because right now, it looks like getting a card advantage by immediately passing, that's it. Or maybe if you have such I good hand and you want to get over it quickly.
Or something like tounts? So a general tool that again builds archetype, not particular decks. CDPR needs to really thing about what is important in Gwent, like core concepts, and build upon that. I mean, there is a card that "deals damage to any unit with odd number" or something like that... what?? Why? No. In HS card advantage is a thing, so there are cards that let's you take cards from your deck. So for example, a unit number is a thing in Gwent. Great! So there should be cards like Quen, to protect this value, or tounts, so you can protect your more valuable cards and gain tempo. This is something that devs should think about.
So IMHO this is the problem. And getting like a ton of new cards, with thousands new keywords, wierd mechanics, very complicated rules, huge swings and stuff just make the problem more visible to some people.
So for example you have heroes, which abilities differ just for tiny bits, for example one can deal 1 damage to any minion, the other can deal 2 damage but only to the face. On the other side of the spectrum you have healing 2 to any minion or gaining 2 armor for the hero. Then in the middle you have all those other option, like deal 1 damage and get 1 armor.So basically, even though it is not written anywhere, you have this feeling that there is an invisible "deal damage - heal" axis, so in other words there is a foundation. And that transforms into clear "aggro - control" axis, which are very nice archetypes and gives you a clue about how to play the opponent. In Gwent, well there are no archetypes - at least not like this. It is more like "keyword based" archetypes, which is great for single player, don't get me wrong - I would love to see like a battle against bears in Thronebreaker, which has some serious story behind it, like "when you wander around, you stumbled upon a pack of bears" or something, but this wouldn't work for multiplayer card game. For me, right now Gwent is kind of like a great "RPG with cards" game, something a bit like Heroes of Might and Magic, not a competitive card game like HS.
Also, this game - to me, I'm not an expert - feels like it is not balanced, but in terms of rules. Having three rounds is very asymmetrical and this is totally not addressed. It is not about who goes first, it is more about who wins the first round and play last card. Seriously, think about it. Maybe somebody who knows something about Game Theory could say if this game is fair?
Maybe they can introduce healing? This might at least give us "healing - dealing damage" axis, and the fraction abilities could be like "heal 4 to any card", or "heal 1 to all units on the row", and on the other side "deal 4 damage to a unit" or "deal 1 damage to all units", which would make me feel like there is a backbone to the game. And then we would have real archetypes, like more aggressive and more passive.
Oh, and for example, what is tempo in Gwent? Because for me it is basically a play which gives you advantage in points, that's it. And what is the point of second round? Because right now, it looks like getting a card advantage by immediately passing, that's it. Or maybe if you have such I good hand and you want to get over it quickly.
Or something like tounts? So a general tool that again builds archetype, not particular decks. CDPR needs to really thing about what is important in Gwent, like core concepts, and build upon that. I mean, there is a card that "deals damage to any unit with odd number" or something like that... what?? Why? No. In HS card advantage is a thing, so there are cards that let's you take cards from your deck. So for example, a unit number is a thing in Gwent. Great! So there should be cards like Quen, to protect this value, or tounts, so you can protect your more valuable cards and gain tempo. This is something that devs should think about.
So IMHO this is the problem. And getting like a ton of new cards, with thousands new keywords, wierd mechanics, very complicated rules, huge swings and stuff just make the problem more visible to some people.
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What?? i didnt say spies are everywhere, just they got buffed.Esmer;n10071501 said:
i had a game with 3frosts,3crones,roach,kayran,oldspeartip and they still were ahead in first round with 20point imperas, my luck was scorch
also round3 they have insane temp: cahir into emyr into vilgefortz
altaybek thats why i run kayran, to eat sucubuses and enforcers
:yes:
Pruny;n10074471 said:What?? i didnt say spies are everywhere, just they got buffed.
i had a game with 3frosts,3crones,roach,kayran,oldspeartip and they still were ahead in first round with 20point imperas, my luck was scorch
also round3 they have insane temp: cahir into emyr into vilgefortz
I see. You play a deck that also favors long rounds, so spies are a bad matchup for you.
However, both spies and wild hunt frost require a setup to have a good finisher in round 3. New decks like bears or cursed NR mainly spam high strength units which have little to no prerequisites.
Cahir into Emhyr into Vilgefortz is 15 str + a card that Vilgeforz plays from 2 gold cards (plus you need to have something on the board for Emhyr to pick up). At the same time Ciri: Nova and Olaf are easy 25 or 20 points from 1 gold card that requires no setup.
Restoring a beastmaster is a 19 srt play that requires 1 silver card and pretty much no setup (you will play beastmasters in previous rounds anyway).
What I am saying is that while NG spies got slightly buffed, there are decks that are much easier to play that provide higher str swings.
I really hope CDPR makes beastmasters doomed or removes a soldier tag from them (so at least priestesses can't ress them).
Rng higher up concerns me a lot atm.
I know people always experiment at the beginning, but higher up it is usually much more conservative. Still in the last few days number of create cards i see up make a hell of a rng fiesta. From controllable winch to that neutral gold that creates spells, those silver runes each faction has, Vremde... it is just crazy. combined with power swings it makes game so ... not what it used to be.
flashy swings with flashy graphics i suppose that is where the devs want to take this game...
I know people always experiment at the beginning, but higher up it is usually much more conservative. Still in the last few days number of create cards i see up make a hell of a rng fiesta. From controllable winch to that neutral gold that creates spells, those silver runes each faction has, Vremde... it is just crazy. combined with power swings it makes game so ... not what it used to be.
flashy swings with flashy graphics i suppose that is where the devs want to take this game...
I'm a completely new player, but from what you've said, you're upset because everything is too chaotic at the moment? Well, there is a new patch adding over 100+ cards, if things weren't chaotic, it would mean the patch added 100+ absolutely useless and uninteresting cards (which thankfully wasn't the case). You also mentioned that you miss factions having clear and defined arch-types? I personally think it's a negative when all a faction has is one or two arch-types that's played and everything else is never even seen. The way things are now, it's the best environment. Everyone is trying out what they enjoy and what seems interesting, that couldn't possibly be a bad thing, could it?
After all, you play a game in order to enjoy it, no?
After all, you play a game in order to enjoy it, no?
I'm waiting for the next update (again), to see what happens. This will be the make it or break it patch for me. I was so excited to hear about the 100+ cards being added to the game, as I was suggesting that to CDPR instead of the 20 cards per update. Then I kept hearing about bad changes, like row limit, and rng cards and mechanics. I couldn't believe it when I saw the UI changes and then I saw all the PTR changes to the existing cards There are too many problems and inconsistencies to list. The detachment the game is to the Witcher lore that so many adore really hurts to see. I will wait to see if the next patch will keep going this new path or not. I still have some hope, because of CDPR's history so far.
There are too many problems and inconsistencies to list. The detachment the game is to the Witcher lore that so many adore really hurts to see. I will wait to see if the next patch will keep going this new path or not. I still have some hope, because of CDPR's history so far.I know about the patch, that’s not the point. The main point in this discussion is that the game feels like just putting cards on the table, like there is no soul no more, and in my opinion it is because of bad foundations.
Think about tennis for example - you have two players and you have to, fairly, decide who wins. So IMHO Gwent is not really that simetrical and fair in terms of Game Theory. The fact that you have finite number of moves and 3 rounds causes situations that whoever plays the last card has huge and kind of unfair advantage. If th rule was whoever first gets 25 point wins the round than it would feel much more fair.
The second thing, I’m saying about classes of archetypes, not archetypes, like aggro or control. In Gwent you basically have control, so one archetype class. There is this thing in card games, who is a beat down and who is control, and Gwent is missing all this concept, because both players are control.
Think about tennis for example - you have two players and you have to, fairly, decide who wins. So IMHO Gwent is not really that simetrical and fair in terms of Game Theory. The fact that you have finite number of moves and 3 rounds causes situations that whoever plays the last card has huge and kind of unfair advantage. If th rule was whoever first gets 25 point wins the round than it would feel much more fair.
The second thing, I’m saying about classes of archetypes, not archetypes, like aggro or control. In Gwent you basically have control, so one archetype class. There is this thing in card games, who is a beat down and who is control, and Gwent is missing all this concept, because both players are control.
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I am as well not feeling the game anymore. Even with the increased RNG, courtesy of the previous updates, there was still room for using some tactics and strategies to overcome the RNG sometimes. Now is pure RNG. As others were stated I feel the same: like I am again a kid and I Play that "war" game with cards...whomever is pulling the higher card, wins. Everything reduced to clicking.
And they will not change it. This is the recipe giving them more money. They would not take into account the minority looking for smart gaming, with RNG being only a side deciding factor for any match faith. They will only look to majority: kids using parents money, players looking for fast fun without any fancy learning curve in behind, players looking for fast returns against their money,etc. This is the world of today.
And they will not change it. This is the recipe giving them more money. They would not take into account the minority looking for smart gaming, with RNG being only a side deciding factor for any match faith. They will only look to majority: kids using parents money, players looking for fast fun without any fancy learning curve in behind, players looking for fast returns against their money,etc. This is the world of today.
Hey, we cannot blame them for trying to make money - this game is free to play, so as soon as people stop buying cards, the game is over, like it won’t exist anymore - who would pay developers, artist and such?
But, it is possible to do things right, with and without RNG, but only if foundation is correct. I remember when I started playing HS, I was loosing all the time, blamed RNG, bad luck an stuff. As soon as I started learning about tempo, card advantage, value, stuff about CORE of the game, I was much better, although I’m still not a good player.
In Gwent, there are like no foundation, so there is no skill involved, like you said, a kid newbie with random deck has big chances of winning.
So CDPR should really thing about what matters in this game. For example, card advantage - it is a huge thing and the only time you can gain one is when you pass second round. Maybe give other player additional card then?
Or tempo, no such thing, the game always has finite number of play, so you cannot win early, like aggro. On the other hand, you have card value, which is important, so add taunt like 0 value card with 10 shield or something. Or add healing, or something. Don’t add more keywords and mechanics and stuff, you should really think about what the CORE is, concepts not visible to new players and understood by experienced players.
And rethink the rules, because they are IMHO unfair right now, and pro players just learned how to take advantage of it.
But, it is possible to do things right, with and without RNG, but only if foundation is correct. I remember when I started playing HS, I was loosing all the time, blamed RNG, bad luck an stuff. As soon as I started learning about tempo, card advantage, value, stuff about CORE of the game, I was much better, although I’m still not a good player.
In Gwent, there are like no foundation, so there is no skill involved, like you said, a kid newbie with random deck has big chances of winning.
So CDPR should really thing about what matters in this game. For example, card advantage - it is a huge thing and the only time you can gain one is when you pass second round. Maybe give other player additional card then?
Or tempo, no such thing, the game always has finite number of play, so you cannot win early, like aggro. On the other hand, you have card value, which is important, so add taunt like 0 value card with 10 shield or something. Or add healing, or something. Don’t add more keywords and mechanics and stuff, you should really think about what the CORE is, concepts not visible to new players and understood by experienced players.
And rethink the rules, because they are IMHO unfair right now, and pro players just learned how to take advantage of it.
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Guys, it doesn’t really matter which fraction you play, bears or no bears, RNG or not - this is all the result. The game lacks foundation, core concepts that you build upon, that’s why it feels like you just put cards on the table, that’s why you have those OP decks. Seriously, just let everything go for a second, spy and bears, and just think about the core and the rules, game mechanics like for example this game has clearly defined number of turns - is it really fair for both players? Also, there is no upper boundary for the score - so if I have super high value cards, does it mean that I have high chances of winning? That’s what makes people feel like it doesn’t really matter what you play, as long and it gives you the biggest swing and last card.
bboczula;n10085211 said:
So... You're saying there's skill involved in Hearthstone and none in Gwent? Oh boy...
Can you people stop pretending like playing this game is some rocket science? Guess what, it isn't. You just have to play the right deck, vomit cards on the board and if you're lucky to draw well you win. This has always been the case.
Remember pre-restore nerf SK? when King Bran had like a 45% popularity and favorable matches against ALL other leaders? guess how that deck played out. And before that remember Dagon swarm deck? want me to refresh your memory about the strategy of that deck? Yes, you had to vomit all your cards on the board, it didn't matter if you were going 2-3 cards down, you had a crapload of carryover from harpies and elementals, you opened with Yen to buff your board to 40-50 points and GG.
This happened pretty much every patch and we had the netdeckers vomiting cards on the board thinking they're some tactical masterminds. The game is pretty much the same.
Remember pre-restore nerf SK? when King Bran had like a 45% popularity and favorable matches against ALL other leaders? guess how that deck played out. And before that remember Dagon swarm deck? want me to refresh your memory about the strategy of that deck? Yes, you had to vomit all your cards on the board, it didn't matter if you were going 2-3 cards down, you had a crapload of carryover from harpies and elementals, you opened with Yen to buff your board to 40-50 points and GG.
This happened pretty much every patch and we had the netdeckers vomiting cards on the board thinking they're some tactical masterminds. The game is pretty much the same.