Same sa OP its not Gwent anymore....i stoped playing some time ago....and what i read and saw lots of players stoped playing to which is sad...i was hoping they revert those abysmal changes but cdpr acting like its all good shine and dandy
Lol @ the guys saying that agile units favour strategy xD.
sorry but no, with all the units being agile the strategy you have to plan is where to drop your unit in order to avoid Gigni , and spread your units accross the board, so aoe or weather is not so effective thats pretty much it.
with units fixed to a specific row, not only that remained unchanged, since a lot of time you had to consider playing a different card in a different row in order to play around gigni, but the deckbuilding was more difficult too, since having a lot of cards for the same row would be bad news and would make your deck more vulnerable to the mentioned aoe and weather.
so yeah, lie to yourself if you want, but no, all the units being agile doesnt add a new layer of strategy to the game, quite the opposite, it is just making it easier, and removing a lot of flavour from the game .
removing the lanes, gold inmunity and the inclusion of more RNG cards is making Gwent an objectively worse game. It is what ít is.
sorry but no, with all the units being agile the strategy you have to plan is where to drop your unit in order to avoid Gigni , and spread your units accross the board, so aoe or weather is not so effective thats pretty much it.
with units fixed to a specific row, not only that remained unchanged, since a lot of time you had to consider playing a different card in a different row in order to play around gigni, but the deckbuilding was more difficult too, since having a lot of cards for the same row would be bad news and would make your deck more vulnerable to the mentioned aoe and weather.
so yeah, lie to yourself if you want, but no, all the units being agile doesnt add a new layer of strategy to the game, quite the opposite, it is just making it easier, and removing a lot of flavour from the game .
removing the lanes, gold inmunity and the inclusion of more RNG cards is making Gwent an objectively worse game. It is what ít is.
4RM3D;n10174352 said:
By making some units (strong units) row specific, like it was before the midwinter patch, it gives units vulnerabilities. When units have vulnerabilities, it promotes more strategic play. Like nekkers tied on melee, strong units like sidgrifa being siege etc. Because of those restrictions, you had to think more. (for example, play sigrdifa now and get punished by igni because row will exceed 25 or bait igni first? Play some other strong unit to a row that has weather effect on it or pass and use it on other round?) Not to mention that some cards like Gedyneith Flaminica and other moving cards might get some value and actually see play. Then there's the battlefield feeling.
Now it's mindelsly putting units on field, until a row gets above 25. There is nothing to play arround except igni.
The number of agile units on previous patch was good (maybe a bit high). There was zero need to make all units agile. None ever complaint about not all units being agile. It was one thing among many others that added depth and flavor to the game.
Just wait until they make first balance-afterpatch fix and play some high-ranks. Gwent will be great again, I promise!
but what did you expect? i do not have much experience in other online card games but i bet that in every single one of them where you have different decks with different strengths you will have some kind of rock paper scissor feeling. at least thats what i feel about gwent. there are certain cards where i just hope that the opponent doesn't possess them or i will have a really hard time. and since the opponents deck is pretty much random there is no possibility to prepare a deck. so yes you just jump in and hope for the best.
I don't thionk it's related to value but more of the general mechanics in the game.
In the past time, the game focused more on synergies and units that were just generating raw power wasn't all that usual.
Now it's different, a lot of cards produces immediate power which is a shame imo because it's kinda encouraging people to not be tactical at all and instead go for the easy route and stack power every turn.
The best example is Skellige, the big power units in the closed beta were the Queen guards and the Skirimishers which you have to put some work into so that they get big enough.
Now you have beast masters who just generate a 11 str bear straight away...Why would you waste your time building a big fatty when you can just play a card and get one immediately?
And don't get me wrong, you can still play those good old cards (I still do, I know what I'm talking about) but you have to do so much things and each one of them can be countered so at the end of the day, it's just easier to go for the big power units (I wouldn't exactly say stronger but more reliable).
Now things get even more complicate with create because not only you don't have to invest too much in term of set up and strategy but the game can randomly spawn a game changer out of nowhere...
I think CDPR should reajust the game so that it's more about synergies, I don't mind the game having RNG and "easy to play" cards but they just shouldn't be as powerful as they currently are.
And to be fair, I think the core problem is that, the developpers balanced those new units based on a standard value (like a bronze worth 12/14 pts ect) but they didn't take into account how difficult it is to make them work.
In the past time, the game focused more on synergies and units that were just generating raw power wasn't all that usual.
Now it's different, a lot of cards produces immediate power which is a shame imo because it's kinda encouraging people to not be tactical at all and instead go for the easy route and stack power every turn.
The best example is Skellige, the big power units in the closed beta were the Queen guards and the Skirimishers which you have to put some work into so that they get big enough.
Now you have beast masters who just generate a 11 str bear straight away...Why would you waste your time building a big fatty when you can just play a card and get one immediately?
And don't get me wrong, you can still play those good old cards (I still do, I know what I'm talking about) but you have to do so much things and each one of them can be countered so at the end of the day, it's just easier to go for the big power units (I wouldn't exactly say stronger but more reliable).
Now things get even more complicate with create because not only you don't have to invest too much in term of set up and strategy but the game can randomly spawn a game changer out of nowhere...
I think CDPR should reajust the game so that it's more about synergies, I don't mind the game having RNG and "easy to play" cards but they just shouldn't be as powerful as they currently are.
And to be fair, I think the core problem is that, the developpers balanced those new units based on a standard value (like a bronze worth 12/14 pts ect) but they didn't take into account how difficult it is to make them work.
Just returned to Gwent, and some decks are making me think on leaving again...
Hi!
After a long hiatus, I started to play again with the midwinter update. It was very different, but... ok. Recently i've been strugling with the "mosnter moons" , but thanks to advice from this forums, now I can win them (hurray!) But.. and it's a very big but... I can't stand anymore Dwarfs, Reveal, Consume and Spies, and thats like 90% of what i've been facing in ladder, even with my low rank (I'm just 6 at this moment).
Ok, I know Dawrf will me changed a bit, but this others are really ruining my fun. What the hell is the counterplay of reveal? Maybe i'm just too dumb , but looks there's nothing I can do against them.
Tried to play casual, and oh boy, the very same decks, but used by people with double or triple my level :S
I know it's a rant, I know I make no differerence, but , I just have nowhere to run to have fun here.
Hi!
After a long hiatus, I started to play again with the midwinter update. It was very different, but... ok. Recently i've been strugling with the "mosnter moons" , but thanks to advice from this forums, now I can win them (hurray!) But.. and it's a very big but... I can't stand anymore Dwarfs, Reveal, Consume and Spies, and thats like 90% of what i've been facing in ladder, even with my low rank (I'm just 6 at this moment).
Ok, I know Dawrf will me changed a bit, but this others are really ruining my fun. What the hell is the counterplay of reveal? Maybe i'm just too dumb , but looks there's nothing I can do against them.
Tried to play casual, and oh boy, the very same decks, but used by people with double or triple my level :S
I know it's a rant, I know I make no differerence, but , I just have nowhere to run to have fun here.
GenLiu;n10205702 said:
Hmm. Is that true though? Are the units really the problem?
From what I see, the biggest thing that went wrong was CDPR not seeing ahead to anticipate the consequences of sharing mechanics to factions that didn't have access to them before. SK was based around the GY - still is really - so SK cards were balanced with that in mind, with the assumption that those cards would be re-used. ST cards, on the other hand, were not. Hattori in the dorf deck has proven to be a disaster, and the existence of Paulie is worse.
I do wonder how the Midwinter patch would have worked out if dorfs hadn't risen to become what it is. There seems to be the bones of a good environment, but dorfs is so overpowering that it strangles everything. Without dorfs there'd be spies, alchemy, monster consume, reveal maybe?, foltest machines, maybe radovid armour, some version of spellatael... Probably a couple others I've not thought of. Or maybe bears would have just overrun everything instead.
They've got a tough next patch ahead, for sure. It's difficult to see exactly what needs changing (given they aren't going to simply remove 100 cards from the game and revert to the old patch).
iamthedave;n10239472 said:
I suppose it's the combination of everything.
Now for how the game would have been without Dwarf being so prevalent, I think it's fairly easy to see (at least for me personally).
There is a lot of cards that are problematic, either because they're too powerful or unhealthy for the game. Nekkers, Enforcers, Slave driver ect those cards needs to be nerfed or reworked as for the create mechanic which, even now they can't create silver spies anymore, is still a major problem for many reason (the ability to virtually run two copy of the same Silver card for example).
That's kind of the trick here, I hope that CDPR will see further than just the "Dwarf issue" and give us ,not necessarily a fully operational meta because it would be almost impossible, but at least a most healthy envirronement on the next patch.
Game has become anything but fun.
I used to play Reveal nilfgard and have a lot of fun, there's something about knowing what the enemy can do, planning big with Henry var Attre was something i was thinking about the entire game, spotting that Igni in the opponents hand, etc.
Then i hit a consistent wall of Dwarfs, and that's when the fun stopped. Now I'm playing Dwarfs myself, because it would be dumb not to do play objectively the best deck in the game.
The loop it had though, is that now i see how shitty the other factions are, when I need daily wins. Brover vs Eredin? ANY DWARF has 13+ value, unless you're so dumb you make somehow make a dead card that deck, which is an achievement on its own. Meanwhile, I'm playing Ice Giant that has TWELVE points IF there's frost on the field.
Playing Dwarfs myself though, I faced against Viper Nilf deck, and won without using Hatori and Paulie, and 25 points to spare. That's more than 60 points of advantage, it's insane.
The point puke meta is horrible, non-gold weathers are a joke, archetypes don't exist anymore. The reason I liked Gwent in the first place is that unlike Hearthstone, you need to think through a match. Now I can win a game with Dwarfs while typing this, which i did.
EDIT: And lets not forget that Crones as 3 Silver cards, if you don't pull more than 1, are 20 points, and one Paulie into Skirmisher is 20
I used to play Reveal nilfgard and have a lot of fun, there's something about knowing what the enemy can do, planning big with Henry var Attre was something i was thinking about the entire game, spotting that Igni in the opponents hand, etc.
Then i hit a consistent wall of Dwarfs, and that's when the fun stopped. Now I'm playing Dwarfs myself, because it would be dumb not to do play objectively the best deck in the game.
The loop it had though, is that now i see how shitty the other factions are, when I need daily wins. Brover vs Eredin? ANY DWARF has 13+ value, unless you're so dumb you make somehow make a dead card that deck, which is an achievement on its own. Meanwhile, I'm playing Ice Giant that has TWELVE points IF there's frost on the field.
Playing Dwarfs myself though, I faced against Viper Nilf deck, and won without using Hatori and Paulie, and 25 points to spare. That's more than 60 points of advantage, it's insane.
The point puke meta is horrible, non-gold weathers are a joke, archetypes don't exist anymore. The reason I liked Gwent in the first place is that unlike Hearthstone, you need to think through a match. Now I can win a game with Dwarfs while typing this, which i did.
EDIT: And lets not forget that Crones as 3 Silver cards, if you don't pull more than 1, are 20 points, and one Paulie into Skirmisher is 20
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GenLiu;n10240932 said:
Nekkers? Really? They were problematic before when they provided absurd carry over, but there's an awful lot of ways to deal with nekkers these days. Would a better fix not be to have warriors create only one copy? That would make it so control-minded players could just gun them down before they become a problem, and require nekker decks to have a backup plan. Not sure if that would nerf the deck into the ground but I think it might be a baby step approach rather than scorched earth. At worst nekkers would then be an equivalent of the spellatael finisher.
Agreed on enforcers, though the math on them seems a little complex unless you have more than one on the board. Your first enforcer, after all, is simply reducing the 'extra' points you got from having spies, after all. If you then remove the buff from the Impera Brigade, the enforcers are points neutral, aren't they? I seem to recall them being a fairly minor annoyance before the change. Would dealing 1 damage instead of 2 balance them better?
Slave Driver definitely needs to be looked at. The funny thing is the Slave Driver is the most fun, but it's one-sided fun. I can't imagine how frustrating it is when a SK greatsword player sees me doing their own strategy right back at them. All the summon bronzes have proven to be too powerful, save maybe elven scout. Runestones should probably be removed from the game, or at least banned from ranked play. I think they need to sit down and assign three cards to every card that has 'create' on it right now. It'll be a pain in the neck, probably create some overlap, and will definitely make a few current good create cards rubbish, but 'choose three' cards weren't a problem before and I doubt they will be if they make the change I'm suggesting. I think it'd be a good change to attempt, at the worst.
And for god's sake they need to fix the new Leader cards. They're all awful, save the Usurper, because he can pretend to be other, better leaders, and that's actually quite a neat idea without being OP.
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iamthedave;n10241452 said:
Nekkers are a huge problem because, as I said on another topic, the only decent way to deal with them is Sweers and you have to time it right too. The other counters are not doing anything on their own, Coraled a Nekker? Sure let's play another one and carry on from this point. At best you're just gaining a turn but that's about it.
Not later than a moment ago, I played consume against someone who muzzled it....I won the game and at the end of the day, muzzle just gave a turn to my opponent.
The first step would be to bring them back to 3 str (this way, it opens up a whole lot more counters including Peter for example) but they may even have to rework them completely.
Honestly the biggest problem with Nekkers isn't exactly how good they are but the fact that they ruin the entire game when you get the right set up (because nothing in the game can beat 4O~5O points in a single turn, it's just too ridiculous).
And again, please guys stop thinking "this card has counters so it's fine". no it's not, having a balanced game means that nobody is forced to play a card in order to stand a change on the ladder. Everyone should be free to choose whatever card they want and as soon as you're like "let play Sweers because Nekkers" you're proving that the game isn't balanced and said units needs to be nerfed.
Enforcers just need to be rewinded to what they were before the patch. When I understand CDPR changing things by time to time I sometimes don't understand all of their choices. Because Enforcers were indeed a little too strong before the MW update but honestly that was okay, it wasn't that necessary to change them and certainly not to buff them...
Slave drivers aren't just annoying they're flat out OP.
1/ They're 2 str on a bronze, which may not sound like a lot but if you look at all of them, they represent 12 points over your opponent (6 SD since you can resurrect them with ointment) which all of the sudden, represents a huge amount of free points.
2/ They allow you to choose among 3 bronze units from your opponent's deck. A deck of Gwent is typically 25 card, including 4 Golds and 6 Silvers. That leaves us with 15 bronze cards that are usually played at 3 copy of (some of them will probably have only 2 copies but it doesn't change the math a whole lot). So, on average, each player will have 6~7 different units in their deck right? So at this point, you can consider Slave drivers a soft tutor for whatever your opponent have in their deck. In fact it's completely possible to have some synergy going with this unit.
3/ They're not bound to the usual limit for bronze in the game and since you can resurrect them (as said earlier) that mean, if you're playing reveal for example, they can pull 6 Nilgaardian knights.
Finally, I don't think Create needs to be removed from the game but it needs some serious rework.
For example, Create shouldn't be able to spawn units from your own deck (because right now it's kinda ridiculous when you make a second Dennis Cramer or a second Iris).
This is where create is the most problematic imo because CDPR set up some limitation about how many cards you can run in a deck, depending on their colors, which now doesn't mean anything anymore because you can play a Silver (or even a Gold) more often than a Bronze...
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GenLiu;n10241772 said:
But that's why I say 'if warriors make only one copy'. Most decks run removal, right? That's just a given, every deck has SOMETHING you want to kill. Killing 6 nekkers (maximum) isn't that much of a demand when they're only 4 pt cards out the gate. Or just kill 5 and save a scorch for no. 6. And that's assuming they managed to play all three warriors on turn 1, and very few Nekker decks manage that. Turn 2 and 3 warriors don't get anything like the same value due to having less time to set up consume chains they benefit from. I mean, sure, you've just spent a bunch of cards only killing nekkers, but in the process you've killed their entire engine. There's really not much else to go after once the nekkers are gone anyway, and they're mostly non-interactive decks that don't go after you much.
I don't see Sweers as being necessary because of Nekkers. That implies only NG decks can beat Nekker decks, which simply isn't true. Sweers is just a simple solution. I mean, if warriors didn't create so many nekkers, current NG spies could just machine gun them with enforcers.
To clarify, I don't think - with my suggestion enacted - that you would be forced to take certain cards to have a chance against nekkers, save packing a decent amount of removal, which I think is a given already because the vast majority of decks have things that need killing ASAP. I mean, if you don't pack removal you might as well forfeit the second Harald drops an axeman, because you ain't winning if you don't stop them.
I'm still not sure slave drivers are OP. I agree in certain circumstances (I mentioned creating your own greatsword combo) it's ridiculous, but against some decks Slave driver gets very little joy. spellatael, for example, messes them right up because it's got nothing but 1 and 2 point bronzes. Slave drivers are terrible there. I should say, I'm not sure they're more OP than any other create bronze (save the elven scout, which never seems to do anything too scary when I use her). Would it be better maybe if created units were weakened from these cards? Like 'create whatever card, weaken it by [power of create unit]'?
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@iamthedave.. so you run a Nekker deck. Figures.. that's why you're irrationally defending against how difficult it is (for most decks) to effectively remove every nekker. Are you seriously suggesting that it's easy for every deck-type to draw 4-6 removal cards for each Nekker that appears? This is simplistic thinking and doesn't take into account bad mulligans and archetypes. It jist takes ONE nekker to stay on the board for a single turn. That's not hard to do. I don't know what opponents you have faced, but I personally don't consistently draw 2-3 removal cards (that deal 4+ damage) for R1.
Philologus;n10243642 said:
nekkers do have hard counters. control decks shit on them. like ng reveal that totally destroys them. that beein said i don't think that nekkers are ok. they need a change like dwarves. but those are not the only unbalanced cards right now. ng needs to get hit by the nerf hammer as much as dwarves and monster. and i can't blame someone for playing all of these decks. because the balance is all over the place anyway.