Leader fixes

[Wonderboy8700]

Pardon my spelling.

1. Eredin: play any wild hunt unit from your deck and boost it by the number of wild hunt units you control. Powerful, but not OP given the new leaders. It gives him an identity and encourages use of wild hunt cards not always seen in MO decks.

2. Anna: banish a card from her own hand and play 1 of 3 enemy cards from their hand. Same 1 of 3 mechanic. She is a hybrid of Kambi and Canterella. She must banish a card, if she has no cards her skill cannot trigger. She doesn't simply copy a card, she deprives her opponent of that card. Like a true seductrice/spy master (like the leader spotlight suggested.)

3. Eithne: Do 1 damage to an enemy. On deathblow do an additional 1 damage to adjacent enemies. 3 charges. This turns her from a max 4 to a max 9. You could add a 4th charge if you want, but her high provisions were designed to compensate for the low value so you don't want to go to crazy. This preserves her current ability but adds a new tag and increases value.

4. Detlaff: do 2 damage to an enemy. Deathblow, release a blood mist that boosts a vampire on opposite row by 1. This skill is not random and is row specific. Detlaff should also have 4 charges. It is still 12 points. The lack of new vampires hinders bloodmoon, but also prevents clogging up the lane for seasonal mode. Detlaff should be more removal focused. Also this forces him to be more vampire heavy rather than using the tokens to benefit from bloodmoon.

5. Henselt: summon two bronze cards of equal provision cost from the deck, do not give them zeal. Every other leader except the zeal guy (cannot remember his name right now,) is leaps and bounds more useful, this at least helps him keep up. Basically a better version of portal. Notice the summoning negates deploy ability.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

1. The suggested Eredin ability is basically Danas ability but with the only restriction that you need to have wild hunt units instead of all the tags Dana needs to assemble to tutor any card. And furthermore you added a buff to that card. To be not OP Eredin would probably need less provisions than Ursurper. Additionally that ability is really boring and just a copy of others as mentioned.

Nonetheless I agree that Eredin needs some change. Though it would keep it small and just give him 2 charges, which boost by 2 and give a shield. Maybe 3. That would keep his purpose.

2. So she isn't just a guaranteed Kambi with banishment, she even gets to choose a card. That would be even more broken than Kambi. Just keep her the way she is, she is fine.

3. Eithne currently interacts with Deathblow already but the other way around. She can enable nearly every deathblow ability easily, which is pretty strong. And she synergizes with ST other removal cards well too including Shiru. If she gets a change it shouldn't be anything major, like the chance to refresh a charge at the end of the round if you played a Dryad during the round.

4. MO shouldn't be removal focused at all and Dettlaff is already to good at removal in my opinion.

5. Henselt is fine the way he is and even sees competitive play, so I don't see a need to change him.

 

[MeCosmos]

Well, Eredin got totaly destroyed. He seems very weak in comparison to other leaders. His point potential is very low and the one shield he can give is no way near as usefull as immunity used to be.
He has to be changed.
I would suggest giving him 3 charges of boost by 2 and give shield, thats 6 points + 3 shields which is not that bad. This is the minimal power he has to have, but it could be even 4 charges of boost bhy 2 and shield or 3 charges of boost by 3 and shield.

Just look at dettlaf for example. He deals 2 dmg and spawns another 2 points. He has 12 point potential + he gets vampires on the board for another synergy + removal.

 

[Wonderboy8700]

1. The suggested Eredin ability is basically Danas ability but with the only restriction that you need to have wild hunt units instead of all the tags Dana needs to assemble to tutor any card. And furthermore you added a buff to that card. To be not OP Eredin would probably need less provisions than Ursurper. Additionally that ability is really boring and just a copy of others as mentioned.

Nonetheless I agree that Eredin needs some change. Though it would keep it small and just give him 2 charges, which boost by 2 and give a shield. Maybe 3. That would keep his purpose.

2. So she isn't just a guaranteed Kambi with banishment, she even gets to choose a card. That would be even more broken than Kambi. Just keep her the way she is, she is fine.

3. Eithne currently interacts with Deathblow already but the other way around. She can enable nearly every deathblow ability easily, which is pretty strong. And she synergizes with ST other removal cards well too including Shiru. If she gets a change it shouldn't be anything major, like the chance to refresh a charge at the end of the round if you played a Dryad during the round.

4. MO shouldn't be removal focused at all and Dettlaff is already to good at removal in my opinion.

5. Henselt is fine the way he is and even sees competitive play, so I don't see a need to change him.

You and I see the game very differently. Eredin had the above mentioned ability a while back, before immunity. The boost is to compensate for the fact that wild hunt doesn't have that many units. Dana can pick from the whole faction, he would be able to pick from a much smaller pool

Your response to my Anna suggestion confused me. Banishing her own card does not allow it to be played like Kambi and Morkvarg. She is removing a card from her hand and never having any ability to benefit from it. In turn she gets to choose from one of three cards in opponents hand (the same way she does now,) but simply plays it instead of her card. No CA, and the same chance to brick that currently exists.

3. She has 4 points, detlaff has 6 with a chance for 12. SK new leader gets 5 plus whatever benefit. All other new leaders get to play a 2nd card in a round. Eithne is underpowered but over provisioned to make up for it. I am suggesting lowering provisions by 2 but increasing basic value.

4. Bleeding is a removal archetype. Especially when combined with deathblow. The current detlaff doesn't need a ton of vampire cards because he can spawn them. Thus bloodmoon works and a MO player can still pointslam or thrive. My suggestion closes this loophole but compensates by giving a little more removal power. It's a balancing act.

5. Henselt is weaker than just about every other leader. Charge decks and Maeve decks both run more efficiently. Adda is basically built around Hubert and when it works she is better too. The new leader (whose name I cannot remember the proper spelling for,) has a better version of his ability as well. Instead of pulling from the deck the only other copy of a bronze, (bad mulligan can much this up,) she can play from the hand and draw another card.

 

[mzeebra]

Well, Eredin got totaly destroyed.

Ooh man, I giggled so much with the Eredin change.

 

[4RM3D]

Henselt is weaker than just about every other leader.

I disagree. Kaedweni Knight alone gives Henselt 12 points instantly, which is a higher average than most leaders. Furthermore, the leader is very flexible and can pull out (thin) another key card, where needed.

 

[mzeebra]

Henselt is not weak.

He is often used with the blue scout/commando scheme.

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

You and I see the game very differently.

Yes, we see a lot of things really differently. But I think that is great, else there wouldn't be anything to discuss.

Eredin had the above mentioned ability a while back, before immunity. The boost is to compensate for the fact that wild hunt doesn't have that many units. Dana can pick from the whole faction, he would be able to pick from a much smaller pool

His OB ability was to spawn any bronze wild hunt unit, which something really different. Or do you mean some other ability that I don't remember?
Also tutoring a unit this way was something really different in OB, because there were a lot more tutors, while tutoring in homecoming has become something really valuable. If we compare all the tuor leader abilities everyone else has huge requirements:
-Eist: Warrior and Graveyard
-Henselt: Bronze and on the board but therefore +4 and Zeal
-Calveit: on out of 3 random cards which requires a lot of deckbuilding
-Dana: your whole deck has to be build in a specific way and only tutors ST cards
-Calanthe: card in hand

Eredins downside of having a smaller cardpool is in fact not a downside at all, because players will usually play him for 1 or 2 cards anyway, which would be Imlerith, Geels and Caranthir.

If you want an ability in the way you suggested it, it has to be either limited to playing a WH unit from your hand and then boosting it, or playing a bronze WH unit from your deck and then boosting it. Everything else seems far too strong to me.

Your response to my Anna suggestion confused me. Banishing her own card does not allow it to be played like Kambi and Morkvarg. She is removing a card from her hand and never having any ability to benefit from it. In turn she gets to choose from one of three cards in opponents hand (the same way she does now,) but simply plays it instead of her card. No CA, and the same chance to brick that currently exists.

What I consider the real strength of Kambi is not the interaction with Morkvarg, but that you deny your enemy his last card which is often his finisher and furthermore shorten the round by 1. And that the round is 1 turn shorter, which can be a huge advantage too against some decks.

The main thing that would change from your suggestion would be that the opponents can't carry any finishers in their last 3 cards. Currently there are decks that can play around Anna-Henrietta because they can keep cards that offer a lot less value for her than for the player himself, but with that change you will loose your strongest card from the last 3 remaining cards pretty much for certain, while Anna-Henrietta has to sacrifice only a really low provision card.

But even worse, the change would boost her in a completly different way too. Currently King Bran is able to carry some kind of sidedeck of situational cards, because he can just discard all cards that are useless in the current matchup. With your suggestion and AH banishing one of her own cards, the player can include some really situational cards too without any downside at all.

3. She has 4 points, detlaff has 6 with a chance for 12. SK new leader gets 5 plus whatever benefit. All other new leaders get to play a 2nd card in a round. Eithne is underpowered but over provisioned to make up for it. I am suggesting lowering provisions by 2 but increasing basic value.

It wouldn't be a bad ability for sure and probably balanced, but I'm just not a fan of that specific ability, because I don't think it really fits with her thematic and helps ST much besides just increasing her value.

4. Bleeding is a removal archetype. Especially when combined with deathblow. The current detlaff doesn't need a ton of vampire cards because he can spawn them. Thus bloodmoon works and a MO player can still pointslam or thrive. My suggestion closes this loophole but compensates by giving a little more removal power. It's a balancing act.

While bleeding is indeed removal, it is slow removal and not heavy removal, because bleeding effects take time and need couple of turns to become effective. If he is able to deal 2 damage 4 times, he will be able to remove 2 engines, which are 4 strength or less, without any help. While it might seem to force the player to build more vampires, the removal of 2 engines should be enough to stop any engine based deck from overtaking MO pointslam.

I can understand why you suggested it and agree with that, but I think it has to be done differently.

5. Henselt is weaker than just about every other leader. Charge decks and Maeve decks both run more efficiently. Adda is basically built around Hubert and when it works she is better too. The new leader (whose name I cannot remember the proper spelling for,) has a better version of his ability as well. Instead of pulling from the deck the only other copy of a bronze, (bad mulligan can much this up,) she can play from the hand and draw another card.

If he needs a change I would keep it simple and make it spawning the card instead of playing it from deck, thus becoming a better Reinforcements.
Your suggestion on the other hand is too strong in my opinion. Portal is a 13 provision cost card and summons random 4 provision cards. Assuming Henselt should be random too and you just didn't mention it, and the player can only select the provisions, then it would still be worth 15 provisions at least. Comparing that to other single use leaders:
-Calanthe is a 14 provision Dandelion without 4 base power
-Woodland Spirit is a 11 provision Ithlinne without 5 base power, but with 4 extra boost and targets any unit in hand
-Emhyr is an 8 provision Mandrake, which allows you to switch the card with a different one.
-Eist is a mix of Sigrfirdas Blessing and Freyas Rite for an average of 8 provisions

 

[Wonderboy8700]

Yes, we see a lot of things really differently. But I think that is great, else there wouldn't be anything to discuss.


His OB ability was to spawn any bronze wild hunt unit, which something really different. Or do you mean some other ability that I don't remember?
Also tutoring a unit this way was something really different in OB, because there were a lot more tutors, while tutoring in homecoming has become something really valuable. If we compare all the tuor leader abilities everyone else has huge requirements:
-Eist: Warrior and Graveyard
-Henselt: Bronze and on the board but therefore +4 and Zeal
-Calveit: on out of 3 random cards which requires a lot of deckbuilding
-Dana: your whole deck has to be build in a specific way and only tutors ST cards
-Calanthe: card in hand

Eredins downside of having a smaller cardpool is in fact not a downside at all, because players will usually play him for 1 or 2 cards anyway, which would be Imlerith, Geels and Caranthir.

If you want an ability in the way you suggested it, it has to be either limited to playing a WH unit from your hand and then boosting it, or playing a bronze WH unit from your deck and then boosting it. Everything else seems far too strong to me.


What I consider the real strength of Kambi is not the interaction with Morkvarg, but that you deny your enemy his last card which is often his finisher and furthermore shorten the round by 1. And that the round is 1 turn shorter, which can be a huge advantage too against some decks.

The main thing that would change from your suggestion would be that the opponents can't carry any finishers in their last 3 cards. Currently there are decks that can play around Anna-Henrietta because they can keep cards that offer a lot less value for her than for the player himself, but with that change you will loose your strongest card from the last 3 remaining cards pretty much for certain, while Anna-Henrietta has to sacrifice only a really low provision card.

But even worse, the change would boost her in a completly different way too. Currently King Bran is able to carry some kind of sidedeck of situational cards, because he can just discard all cards that are useless in the current matchup. With your suggestion and AH banishing one of her own cards, the player can include some really situational cards too without any downside at all.


It wouldn't be a bad ability for sure and probably balanced, but I'm just not a fan of that specific ability, because I don't think it really fits with her thematic and helps ST much besides just increasing her value.


While bleeding is indeed removal, it is slow removal and not heavy removal, because bleeding effects take time and need couple of turns to become effective. If he is able to deal 2 damage 4 times, he will be able to remove 2 engines, which are 4 strength or less, without any help. While it might seem to force the player to build more vampires, the removal of 2 engines should be enough to stop any engine based deck from overtaking MO pointslam.

I can understand why you suggested it and agree with that, but I think it has to be done differently.


If he needs a change I would keep it simple and make it spawning the card instead of playing it from deck, thus becoming a better Reinforcements.
Your suggestion on the other hand is too strong in my opinion. Portal is a 13 provision cost card and summons random 4 provision cards. Assuming Henselt should be random too and you just didn't mention it, and the player can only select the provisions, then it would still be worth 15 provisions at least. Comparing that to other single use leaders:
-Calanthe is a 14 provision Dandelion without 4 base power
-Woodland Spirit is a 11 provision Ithlinne without 5 base power, but with 4 extra boost and targets any unit in hand
-Emhyr is an 8 provision Mandrake, which allows you to switch the card with a different one.
-Eist is a mix of Sigrfirdas Blessing and Freyas Rite for an average of 8 provisions

Fair warning, it is late, my spelling sucks and my formating could use work.

1. Emhyr is a lot more than a Mandrake. He allows you to replay your best card with full deploy ability. I cannot remember the spelling but Vivienne is a good example, she can boost vigilifortz by 7 and then redeploy and boost dandelion by 10 (sorry for any spelling errors, I am very tired and not looking anything up.) Calanthe is another good example as she allows syanna, a 11 provision card to play a second spying Roche and gain 4 cards at once (depending on the cards provisions are astronomical.)
Dana allows guaranteed removal of any card by poison which has an intrinsic provision value of at least 9 (the lowest cost non order removal,) in addition to the provision cost of the poison.
Slavoid, can trigger multiple berserks and spawn a doomed abomination, this value can easily exceed 20 points. Harald plus two blades is 16 points. I could go on, but quantifying provision cost to leader ability ignores synergy. While I understand and appreciate your reasoning, it would be helpful to look at the context of the ability. I did in fact intend for random equivalent provision summoning (thus the example of portal,) and in context it provides one additional deck thinning while removing the 4 point boost and zeal. I agree with @4RM3D that henslet can get a 12 value, but that is very low in the context of NR. Adda plus Hubert equals 16. 3 zeals equals chort transformation 9 points, duel for 6 points, and dragon 5 damage with no possibility of removal or blocking. 3 easy examples which equal 20 points. Charges an average or 2 value per charge equals at least 20 value per match (an average assuming total removal is impossible.) Maeve boosting tridam is worth 2 a pop and boosting others makes removal difficult. She can easily be worth 20 in the proper context. Henselt's best combination is worth 12.

Eithne just feels left behind. High provision value is important, but no one plays her at the highest ranks because 4 damage just isn't that useful. High provisions are nice, but every other leader ability is nicer.

Eredin would pull out the cards you described, but the wild hunt would see much more use, and that means less pointslam and less thrive. This would make monsters fresher and give a lost archetype some new life. On balance I don't think it is that much stronger than other leaders.

Datlaff being able to engine remove is kind of a good thing. MO is always getting crushed by NR because they are stuck on their own side of the board. Point slam and thrive both are same side. Deathwish does some damage (rotfiend, mantacore, and succubus,) but ultimately not much. You want a deck that goes on the offensive. The counters are 3 fold. 1, purify the bleeding/ give vitality. 2, use reset, igni, big card removal, ect... to handle the bloodmoon gains and thrive gains. 3, use deploy removal such as gimpy, and ifrit to help even the odds. The best part about CC is it changes the rock paper scissors, I just want to change it a bit more.

Anna in her current form lacks identity. Assimilate is not a deck build yet. I'm sorry, it just isn't. 5 engines out of 25 cards. You will be lucky to have 4 available and the condition is not as easy to meet as other available engines. Maybe in time when more units get deploy ability and assimilate then it will be a deck, but not yet. Anna creates a random card from the remaining cards. This is not that big a deal because players will use finishers in round one and mid range in round 3 instead of the inverse. Lippy decks do something similar when they get cornered in round 2. Kambi does shorten the round, so would Anna. Canterella pulls the top card from the deck. If it would make you feel better, you could remove Anna's choice and she just play a random enemy card, but the same problem will remain.

 

[mzeebra]

While bleeding is indeed removal, it is slow removal and not heavy removal, because bleeding effects take time and need couple of turns to become effective. If he is able to deal 2 damage 4 times, he will be able to remove 2 engines, which are 4 strength or less, without any help.

Well, some units should not be possible to use bleeding on, engines is one of those. It's made of wood.

 

[bojerbela]

Pardon my spelling.

2. Anna: banish a card from her own hand and play 1 of 3 enemy cards from their hand. Same 1 of 3 mechanic. She is a hybrid of Kambi and Canterella. She must banish a card, if she has no cards her skill cannot trigger. She doesn't simply copy a card, she deprives her opponent of that card. Like a true seductrice/spy master (like the leader spotlight suggested.)

She is the most disguisting leader in the history of Gwent. If I see her, I will forfeit. I make a deck to play with it not for my opponent. Old Hym was hated...he was nothing in comparison with her.

 

[MysticJoey]

Ridiculous ideas. Anna would be broken. Henselt would be much less interesting and im not even sure if stronger. Dettlaff is already OP and by far the strongest monster leader, 8 points of dmg in pings of 2 would be insanity, try giving that to Adda and see how it goes. And Eithne well she used to be ultimate control leader, you would very rarely use her pings to kill units, they are used to set up cards, so again im not sure if taking one ping from her would be good at all. You are looking at leaders abilities way too much in terms of points, instead of focusing on what they can do. And as for eredin i will have to look at all wild hunt units to see if this is viable.

 

[Wonderboy8700]

Ridiculous ideas. Anna would be broken. Henselt would be much less interesting and im not even sure if stronger. Dettlaff is already OP and by far the strongest monster leader, 8 points of dmg in pings of 2 would be insanity, try giving that to Adda and see how it goes. And Eithne well she used to be ultimate control leader, you would very rarely use her pings to kill units, they are used to set up cards, so again im not sure if taking one ping from her would be good at all. You are looking at leaders abilities way too much in terms of points, instead of focusing on what they can do. And as for eredin i will have to look at all wild hunt units to see if this is viable.

Strongest monster leader is situational. Arachas queen is strongest against decks with insufficient removal. They have she troll, Gusty, the lizard who does 1 damage per dead unit. They can essentially point swing like crazy. Against removal Gerni or woodland point slam with thrive is better. Eredin used to be the best simply because he would auto win if you didn't have igni, Yrden, scorch, etc... My purposed change would make detlaff decks more balanced and force more vampires. Crach does 1 damage a shot and does at least 8 shots.

I don't follow your argument about Henselt as his power isn't that unique and as I showed above is really underpowered.

Eithne is far weaker in terms of leader power. She is all about provisions, like mors but without a method of getting more points through unit synergy. 1 less shot for 2 extra damage potential seems more than fair.

I will leave Anna and Eredin alone as you didn't give enough info to talk about further.

 

[DRK3]

It's too early to make an accurate accessment of the leaders balance, specially when comparing these new ones with the old ones, but on an "early analysis":

Eredin's nerf was probably because of Slyzard Eredin last season. I noticed other Immune "givers" got the same treatment, i think Avallach is now the only way to make Immune (unless he got changed too, idk)

Eithne really is underwhelming now. She got the same treatment that most things that are EVERYWHERE at some point in Gwent (i.e. Sihil, Spear and Shield, Witcher Trio) get - nerfed so hard nobody ever plays it again, with no further adjustments, since seems CDPR is always too busy dealing with OP stuff to worry with underpowered forgotten cards...

Henselt is balanced.

The new leaders: Henrietta is fine, she can be great but she can also suck, players (me included) just need to learn to adjust to her (to face her) and expect to have their hand revealed when down to 3-5 cards on R3.

Dethlaff seems to be OP though. If Morvran is 3x +2 (so 6 total) why should a leader that is 3x -2 should also get the added benefit of spawning +2 bodies (with condition, but still) making it a 12pt total? Protecting engines is valuable but so is extra removal.