Let V not drink or smoke.

[akaddk]

I too was wondering wtf was with all those ashtrays and cigs V isn't using. Then I figured out that's all Nibbles.

Goddam cat'll be the death of me.

Oh, forgot to mention that I also don't like the Corpo apartment solely because there's a smoking ashtray in it. Like, dude, this isn't cleansing my fucking chakra here.

Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2024

but shoehorning "modern" ideas in classics has never worked. And for obvious reasons. Just pandering is all.

Umm... this gets done all the time to great applaud and praise. Literally Shakespearean even. It's not pandering to do this, it's just a natural evolution of narratives across generations.

Now, that's not to say that it's not sometimes done cynically and poorly and purely for profit and that the end result comes off as leveraging a socio-cultural trend, because that's exactly what it's doing and that's hard to hide when it forms the basis of creative motivation, but that's another issue entirely from what you're pointing out.

Post automatically merged: Jan 3, 2024

This is very realistic, I think. Some people (real world) get pretty peeved and see it as an insult when you won't bend your rigid principles to make an exception on what is basically a harmless one-off. Believe me, do they ever.

So one person should be able to impose their point of view on another and that if the other resists, they're the problem?

Do you see how that's not only contradictory, but also unethical and immoral?

So it's quite fair that you don't have to socially drink or smoke, and that NPCs don't have to socialize with you.

I prefer to think of it as me not having to socialise with them.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

You do get the choice to not smoke after the second narrative Relic stroke, after kidnapping Helman. V reflexively puts it in her mouth... hold onto the lighter for a bit and then you get a choice. (vid below)

CDPR were very intentional about that choice in relation to becoming more like Johnny. Having V almost light up and pause so friggin long.

Which is why I don't buy the "becoming like Johnny" rationale for Pyramid Song sexy times.

• Anytime there is significant influence/intrusion you get the Relic visuals or sound.
• Pyramid song is doe not happen in a specified time. It can be early game. It can be super late game. So saying that Johnny's influence "at this point" doesn't really work since the timing is very relative..
• There are two Relic Strokes that happen when V has a "come to Johnny" moment happen after raiding Clouds and interrogation Hellman (as we know). CDPR narratively intended one Relic episode to happen before the other. Because you can interrogate Hellman before raiding Clouds, CDPR made sure the they had scenes for Relic Episode I for post Raid and post-interrogation and likewise for Relic Episode II. This demonstrates how careful and intentional CDPR were with their narrative handling.

Sexy Smoking Times

• Does not show indicators that normal signal Johnny or Relic interference.
• May or may not occur when the influence is getting stronger because it has a large time window in which to occur.
• Even when V was being influences in Relic Episode II, they had a choice.
• The narrative handle was much stronger and definitive over all and in the instance where V nearly lit up.

At best, if there was narrative intention it was sloppy in comparison to how it had been handled over all. At worst (or maybe this is best, idk, who cares )... the took their eye completely off the ball in that instance. Worthy of critique, sure, but hardly impacting what is otherwise a fantastically well done game/story.

Edit-- I don't speak Spanish (crap, is that even the language in this vid?) but there was a choice and the player in the video lit up their cig. So yeah, I'm assuming the other choice was to not light up. If it wasn't that could be funnier though...

The scene you talk about is during TapeWorm, which have four steps, which happen after each main quests and at different moment depending the order you complete them. But it's always in this order, no matter what you do :
1 - Johnny say he can help, give some clues about Mikoshi and Alt.
2 - More "deep" talk with Johnny about why he want to smash Arasaka, how it feel to be in V's body,...
3 - The scene you quote, during V have a cigarette in her mouth and can choose to light it or not (if V decide to not light the cigarette, it's more like a rebellion, to say no, I'm not like you as..ole! rather than, no I don't want to smoke).
4- The big crisis which end at the motel in Pacifica.

In my case I talk about Disaster Piece, the dialogue just after taking the elevator with Evelyn in arms (Under the rain on the balcony).
If you found Hellman before Evelyn, V smoke directly without player imput. If you didn't find Hellman, Johnny begs V to smoke, and V can accept or refuse. So again, it's to point out how Johnny influence grow over time. More the time pass, more V start become like him (something on which V have no control and so neither the players).

 

[lefouduroi.pr]

Umm... this gets done all the time to great applaud and praise. Literally Shakespearean even. It's not pandering to do this, it's just a natural evolution of narratives across generations.

Now, that's not to say that it's not sometimes done cynically and poorly and purely for profit and that the end result comes off as leveraging a socio-cultural trend, because that's exactly what it's doing and that's hard to hide when it forms the basis of creative motivation, but that's another issue entirely from what you're pointing out.

Pretty certain that what I was alluding to was obvious. I shall be more precise in the future, but I was talking about the latter.

 

[mightymatt27]

The scene you talk about is during TapeWorm, which have four steps, which happen after each main quests and at different moment depending the order you complete them. But it's always in this order, no matter what you do :

Thanks for clarifying that LeKill3rFou