Media, News & Previews Thread

[kofeiiniturpa]

While the barrage of damage numbers spiral across your view, actually obscuring not only the effect of your shots, the beautiful graphics but also any sense this could be "real."

With BIGGER NUMBERS for crits..

I don't particularly like bouncy numbers, but I've never taken them as anything but abstract information to the player (same as "this weapon does 3d6+2 damage"). I actually find the healthbars and level indicators much more intimidating and offputting in this particular case. Of course provided that I do not have to put 10 to 20 rounds to the face of some "[red skull image] level 30 epic-boss thug" with my "level 1 shitty puny outdated non-epic rusty desert eagle of clumsiness". That shit's just not appropriate here.

 

[Snowflakez]

Of course provided that I do not have to put 10 to 20 rounds to the face of some "[red skull image] level 30 epic-boss thug" with my "level 1 shitty puny outdated non-epic rusty desert eagle of clumsiness". That shit's just not appropriate here.

This made me spit out my tea.

I find the concept of leveled weapons hilarious. How do you even explain that? I mean, quality levels I can sort of understand. I don't like the idea of them being colored (blue, green, etc.) but whatever. A high-end Militech rifle is probably better than a collection of scrap that can fire bullets. Maybe it's more accurate, heck, maybe it even does do more damage due to bullet calibre or just manufacturing quality.

But leveled? As in, "Level 36 Pistol"? How do you make that something that doesn't seem stupid and unrealistic?

In a fantasy world, you can suspend your disbelief a bit more. Maybe the weapon is slightly more magical. OK. Fine. I still don't care for it, but thems the breaks and I can't argue too much. But again... guns... why should a gun with the same model, same properties, same manufacturer, magically do an extra 20 damage?

Worried about this.

 

[4meg]

I don't particularly like bouncy numbers, but I've never taken them as anything but abstract information to the player (same as "this weapon does 3d6+2 damage"). I actually find the healthbars and level indicators much more intimidating and offputting in this particular case. Of course provided that I do not have to put 10 to 20 rounds to the face of some "[red skull image] level 30 epic-boss thug" with my "level 1 shitty puny outdated non-epic rusty desert eagle of clumsiness". That shit's just not appropriate here.

I hope all combat indicators (other than ammo remaining) can be turned off. During combat in the PnP game you didn't know if you'd killed your enemy until the ref said so. Turning off any indicators would replicate this fairly well.

 

[Mebrilia]

I am just speculating here but here how i think it works or what i think it should acceptable to work in order to statisfate both crowd.

On combat: Stat and Skills would influence Recoil and Bullet spray for gunfight, Critical and success of takedown for melee.

Out of combat: Stat and Skill would unlock new dialogue options like for example: Lies,Persuasion,Intimidation and souch.

All is balanced by the Street Creed system that will keep the player out from impossible situation by restricting the kind of tasks will faces. Avoiding for example the player will find himself in challenge he can't possibly win.

Npc would have stats and skills too not in levels (levels in cyberpunk? nope.) But by context (what boostergang your are messing with? Are you attempting to steal a prototype weapon of Militech? are you nuts?)

I think reputation and cause and concequences will be handled by player choices because in game there is not a reputation meter (only street creeds that pretty much don't work as a reputation specific system but how note you are).

This is how i see it work of course i can't say for sure if is like that or is different. I would have no problems with a system like that.

 

[Rawls]

I hope all combat indicators (other than ammo remaining) can be turned off. During combat in the PnP game you didn't know if you'd killed your enemy until the ref said so. Turning off any indicators would replicate this fairly well.

You could turn them all off in TW3.

 

[Snowflakez]

You could turn them all off in TW3.

I loved how customizable the UI was.

 

[Rawls]

Stat and Skills would influence Recoil and Bullet spray for gunfight

Oh man I hope they don't do skills affecting bullet spray. Weapon sway I'm all for though.

 

[Snowflakez]

Oh man I hope they don't do skills affecting bullet spray. Weapon sway I'm all for though.

 

[Mebrilia]

Oh man I hope they don't do skills affecting bullet spray. Weapon sway I'm all for though.

That could be another alternative see the point is. Since is not possible traslate the pen and paper outside by a turn based prospecting a nice design choice would be keeping the skills but implement in a manner that they do a similiar thing inside the videogame.
Bullet spry,Recoil and Such was an example.

That is acceptable anything less is not. Having a videogame that takes only just the themes and not the core of the pen and paper would make this game a themepark and is exactly what i would hate to see.

 

[Sardukhar]

Oh man I hope they don't do skills affecting bullet spray. Weapon sway I'm all for though.

Well, Rawls,

In the pen and paper, your skills do affect the amount of targets hit with autofire - number above Target Number is the extra hits. That number is determined mostly by Ref and Rifle ( or SMG, Pistol, whatever) plus gear and finally 1D10. Luck plays a decreasing factor as your skills go up.

And of course in suppressing fire, the pen and paper has people make Athletics + REF + 1D10 to avoid getting hit.

So at least in the pen and paper, skills do matter for bullet spray.

Recoil is an optional rule, typically affecting only larger weapons, unless your Ref has them apply to all weapons. Which is, I think, the only way we played since why wouldn't firing a 7.62 rifle be an accuracy issue for a weak 90 pound person? It would, or at least should, and not just in the pen and paper.

How much the pen and paper affects the CRPG I dunno, although the idea that "anything less than this is unacceptable" is certainly not mine.

The pen and paper rules are supposed to model a Cyberpunk game, not limit it. If CDPR can come up with Cyberpunk 2020 using a different system, great!

R.Talsorian did this themselves, with the Fuzion rules for the pen and paper update.

System and Rules aren't the game - that's setting, writing, players, theme, etc. As long as the pen and paper feeling of danger and grit are carried through, that's what matters.

 

[Mebrilia]

Well, Rawls,

In the pen and paper, your skills do affect the amount of targets hit with autofire - number above Target Number is the extra hits. That number is determined mostly by Ref and Rifle ( or SMG, Pistol, whatever) plus gear and finally 1D10. Luck plays a decreasing factor as your skills go up.

And of course in suppressing fire, the pen and paper has people make Athletics + REF + 1D10 to avoid getting hit.

So at least in the pen and paper, skills do matter for bullet spray.

Recoil is an optional rule, typically affecting only larger weapons, unless your Ref has them apply to all weapons. Which is, I think, the only way we played since why wouldn't firing a 7.62 rifle be an accuracy issue for a weak 90 pound person? It would, or at least should, and not just in the pen and paper.

How much the pen and paper affects the CRPG I dunno, although the idea that "anything less than this is unacceptable" is certainly not mine.

The pen and paper rules are supposed to model a Cyberpunk game, not limit it. If CDPR can come up with Cyberpunk 2020 using a different system, great!

R.Talsorian did this themselves, with the Fuzion rules for the pen and paper update.

System and Rules aren't the game - that's setting, writing, players, theme, etc. As long as the pen and paper feeling of danger and grit are carried through, that's what matters.

I agree to a degree.. This game in the end is supposed to be an RPG based on a pen and paper setting while skill stat can change they must be present,they must be used.

For example if cyberpunk 2077 will have just a generic skilltree or a perk system ala Fallout 4 that would be completely missing the whole point with the end to fell embarassing because on the other hand you will end with games around like Shadowrun that while using another setting will have more cyberpunk feel that the cyberpunk 2077 game.

This is not a the witcher this is not a rpg based on a novel nor is a rpg based from the ground up. This is based on a beloved pen and paper setting now with that i don't say that cd projekt red can't do house rules or can't adapt the existing skills and stat to better fit the game but is in whitin their interest to preserve the core of it or again it will just a themepark.

Now concerning Cyberpunk2077 i am sure the game will be great but will be good even for those that love the pen and paper? THat's up to cdprojekt.

I am interested in Cyberpunk2077 even ignoring some design flaws only if it will be faithful enough or will be capable to emulate to a degree the pen and paper system.

 

[Sardukhar]

Now concerning Cyberpunk2077 i am sure the game will be great but will be good even for those that love the pen and paper? THat's up to cdprojekt.

I am interested in Cyberpunk2077 even ignoring some design flaws only if it will be faithful enough or will be capable to emulate to a degree the pen and paper system.

You know, Meb, you keep talking like that point of view is the same for all pen and paper players.

I am that pen and paper player and Ref and I don't agree that it will be a themepark otherwise - also pretty sure I will love it because CDPR has good writing and Mike Pondsmith loves it.

My former Ref, I'm pretty sure will love it, same reasons.

All my players will like it to love it, depending on their interest in computer games.

So, no, saying that pen and paper players will only be satisfied if CDPR conforms to your decided norms for the game is not accurate.

In short, you don't speak for those of us that do play and run the Pen and Paper game. We, my players and I at least, are a lot more tolerant of what Cyberpunk can be and still be satisfying.

 

[Snowflakez]

Well, Rawls,

In the pen and paper, your skills do affect the amount of targets hit with autofire - number above Target Number is the extra hits. That number is determined mostly by Ref and Rifle ( or SMG, Pistol, whatever) plus gear and finally 1D10. Luck plays a decreasing factor as your skills go up.

And of course in suppressing fire, the pen and paper has people make Athletics + REF + 1D10 to avoid getting hit.

So at least in the pen and paper, skills do matter for bullet spray.

Recoil is an optional rule, typically affecting only larger weapons, unless your Ref has them apply to all weapons. Which is, I think, the only way we played since why wouldn't firing a 7.62 rifle be an accuracy issue for a weak 90 pound person? It would, or at least should, and not just in the pen and paper.

How much the pen and paper affects the CRPG I dunno, although the idea that "anything less than this is unacceptable" is certainly not mine.

The pen and paper rules are supposed to model a Cyberpunk game, not limit it. If CDPR can come up with Cyberpunk 2020 using a different system, great!

R.Talsorian did this themselves, with the Fuzion rules for the pen and paper update.

System and Rules aren't the game - that's setting, writing, players, theme, etc. As long as the pen and paper feeling of danger and grit are carried through, that's what matters.

Yeah, may be it's time to stop using PnP as part of arguments in favor of RPG systems.

That doesn't mean those arguments are invalid, though. Some of us actually want accuracy and such to be affected by player skills, PnP roots be damned.

So I suppose it's a bit dishonest to argue as if we care about preserving the PnP roots (in regards to mechanics, not theme and such) when we really don't care at all, and just want the systems to carry over because they're neat and very RPG-like.

 

[Mebrilia]

You know, Meb, you keep talking like that point of view is the same for all pen and paper players.

I am that pen and paper player and Ref and I don't agree that it will be a themepark otherwise - also pretty sure I will love it because CDPR has good writing and Mike Pondsmith loves it.

My former Ref, I'm pretty sure will love it, same reasons.

All my players will like it to love it, depending on their interest in computer games.

So, no, saying that pen and paper players will only be satisfied if CDPR conforms to your decided norms for the game is not accurate.

In short, you don't speak for those of us that do play and run the Pen and Paper game. We, my players and I at least, are a lot more tolerant of what Cyberpunk can be and still be satisfying.

I speak for myself and for the group i am playing pen and paper with is not more complex or more easier with that. We speak often about the game and how we are feeling about it also i am pretty sure as you said cd projekt as fan will make for sure a great work in this or at least i hope.

Again i am not speaking for everyone but i can say this:

A thing is see a videogame with stats and skill even adapted or changed that try to reflect and bring a pen and paper feel in your game another is have a game that have only the title but not the substance and i don't think this is the case of cd projekt even if i can allow myself a little costructive critic they didin't make with this released info a nice job to suppress concerns people like me fan of the pen and paper games can be interested on.

For istance we know there will be skills and stats but we have no clue how those will work inside and outside the combat.

There was an event in a sort of situation like that to another game Sword coast legends that was marketed as a D&D game following the 5th edition rules when the game released it had nothing or almost nothing about D&D just generic cooldown spells and abilities that created so much backlash that the game got so massive ask for a refund that the developers bankrupted.

Again i don't think this is the case of CD project red but being a pen and paper player i expect more or less even if changed the same skills inside the game how will be used? it dosn't matter if will be in a form of a roll for hit or just weapon accurancy as long they are there.

But something like a generic perk system like a the witcher 3 or Fallout4? That for me would kill the game of course it could be a fantastic game but there is a vast difference between a game based on a pen and paper somehow adapting the rules on how the game play and a themepark that just had a nice writing and cool visual.

I strongly think that fan of the pen and paper are more interested on the first option at least this is the impression i had speaking with the people i play with (and i even think this because i strongly believe who waited so long for a cyberpunk game with Mike involved expected a more similiar to pen and paper system).

I am not looking for total accurancy i am looking for a certain degree of similiarity because in the end what sort of cyberpunk game is if dosn't at least have some similiarity to the pen and paper?

 

[Snowflakez]

There was an event in a sort of situation like that to another game Sword coast legends that was marketed as a D&D game following the 5th edition rules when the game released it had nothing or almost nothing about D&D just generic cooldown spells and abilities that created so much backlash that the game got so massive ask for a refund that the developers bankrupted.
with

Please never bring up Sword Coast Legends again.

I'm not one to dance on the corpse of developers (I was said about Boss Key, despite them going downhill), but oh boy, they deserved that one.

 

[Sardukhar]

So I suppose it's a bit dishonest to argue as if we care about preserving the PnP roots (in regards to mechanics, not theme and such) when we really don't care at all, and just want the systems to carry over because they're neat and very RPG-like.

Oh I think we should keep referencing the pen and paper. Of course! Reasons! And also it is, as far as we know, the template for 2077. Sure is for setting!

I am not looking for total accurancy i am looking for a certain degree of similiarity because in the end what sort of cyberpunk game is if dosn't at least have some similiarity to the pen and paper?

Well, I agree with this. Especially since the pen and paper rules are so good at conveying danger and power and coolness.

I mean, c'mon. Mortal 0 saves for 8 damage to the limb? So brutal and so cool. The Humanity rating of a character? Skills like Human Perception?

There is literally a Cool stat. Just like the pen and paper.

So given that and some of what we've seen about the demo ( the stats) I think the Pen and Paper is a strong influence on the game systems. How strong, hrm. Well, we have Roles, albeit only 3 but Referees do that too. They changed the stats so that Body is now Strength and Constitution, which is both sensible and seen in R.Tals Fuzion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzion

We have skills as well as the Rep stat from PnP, albeit called Street Cred now.

We have Empathy of some kind - you are limited in how much Cyber you can have. Dunno if it affects interactions like in pen and paper but a fair bet it does.

We have limb targeting and dismemberment! Very Friday Night Firefight!

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/current-developer-answers-to-your-cp-2077-questions.10970951/

So as of now we do have a fair bit of the Pen and Paper ruleset in place.

I, too, wish we knew about how the stats and skills go together, but we have a lot to go on indicating they are aiming at a pen and paper -ish target.

 

[Mebrilia]

Oh I think we should keep referencing the pen and paper. Of course! Reasons! And also it is, as far as we know, the template for 2077. Sure is for setting!



Well, I agree with this. Especially since the pen and paper rules are so good at conveying danger and power and coolness.

I mean, c'mon. Mortal 0 saves for 8 damage to the limb? So brutal and so cool. The Humanity rating of a character? Skills like Human Perception?

There is literally a Cool stat. Just like the pen and paper.

So given that and some of what we've seen about the demo ( the stats) I think the Pen and Paper is a strong influence on the game systems. How strong, hrm. Well, we have Roles, albeit only 3 but Referees do that too. They changed the stats so that Body is now Strength and Constitution, which is both sensible and seen in R.Tals Fuzion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzion

We have skills as well as the Rep stat from PnP, albeit called Street Cred now.

We have Empathy of some kind - you are limited in how much Cyber you can have. Dunno if it affects interactions like in pen and paper but a fair bet it does.

We have limb targeting and dismemberment! Very Friday Night Firefight!

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/current-developer-answers-to-your-cp-2077-questions.10970951/

So as of now we do have a fair bit of the Pen and Paper ruleset in place.

I, too, wish we knew about how the stats and skills go together, but we have a lot to go on indicating they are aiming at a pen and paper -ish target.

I always been realistic Sard i never imagined to have a system that work exactly like a pen and paper cyberpunk session i just expected to be really similiar or traslated in active gameplay mechanics.

Things like:
Skill checks while netrunning.
Shooting influenced by stat and skill and melee the same.
Unlocking new dialogue options with social skills.

A less Deus ex HR approach (because let's face it jensen had not skills only his cyberware had) and more a new vegas approach. Cyberware should enhance the individual not replace his human skills.

Skill checks when they matters.

 

[Sardukhar]

I always been realistic Sard i never imagined to have a system that work exactly like a pen and paper cyberpunk session i just expected to be really similiar or traslated in active gameplay mechanics.

Things like:
Skill checks while netrunning.
Shooting influenced by stat and skill and melee the same.
Unlocking new dialogue options with social skills.

A less Deus ex HR approach (because let's face it jensen had not skills only his cyberware had) and more a new vegas approach. Cyberware should enhance the individual not replace his human skills.

Skill checks when they matters.

Of these I think,

Shooting influenced by stats and skills and melee the same is likely. Very likely, although may be (ugh) a perk system. Ugh.

Skill checks while netrunning....I doubt it? Maybe? Skill checks before netrunning for gear and access maybe.

Unlocking new dialogue options highly likely.

Skill checks when they matter....hmm. Maybe some of the time. The Action RPG crowd aren't huge fans of losing control of their character during the action portion. Neither is CDPR. So this, I dunno. Doubt it though.

 

[Snowflakez]

Oh I think we should keep referencing the pen and paper. Of course! Reasons! And also it is, as far as we know, the template for 2077. Sure is for setting!



Well, I agree with this. Especially since the pen and paper rules are so good at conveying danger and power and coolness.

I mean, c'mon. Mortal 0 saves for 8 damage to the limb? So brutal and so cool. The Humanity rating of a character? Skills like Human Perception?

There is literally a Cool stat. Just like the pen and paper.

So given that and some of what we've seen about the demo ( the stats) I think the Pen and Paper is a strong influence on the game systems. How strong, hrm. Well, we have Roles, albeit only 3 but Referees do that too. They changed the stats so that Body is now Strength and Constitution, which is both sensible and seen in R.Tals Fuzion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzion

We have skills as well as the Rep stat from PnP, albeit called Street Cred now.

We have Empathy of some kind - you are limited in how much Cyber you can have. Dunno if it affects interactions like in pen and paper but a fair bet it does.

We have limb targeting and dismemberment! Very Friday Night Firefight!

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/current-developer-answers-to-your-cp-2077-questions.10970951/

So as of now we do have a fair bit of the Pen and Paper ruleset in place.

I, too, wish we knew about how the stats and skills go together, but we have a lot to go on indicating they are aiming at a pen and paper -ish target.

It was more of a self-realization.

Arguing for the presence of certain mechanics, strictly because they were in the PnP thus they "must carry over if this is a TRUE adaptation," is silly, and I've done that a few times in the past.

What should matter the most is, as you said, the setting. If the THEME of Cyberpunk 2077 is correct, the mood, the atmosphere, then that already hints toward certain gameplay mechanics. Lethality in combat, tough gameplay-affecting choices, fashion having an impact on NPC perception of you... etc.

So, my point is, if I'm going to argue for RPG elements, I should do it on the basis of "I want this in the game and here's good reasons why" as opposed to "I want this in the game because it was in the PnP." Because I'm not a big fan of the PnP (in the sense that I haven't played it for years, not that I don't find it super unique and compelling), so it's dishonest to pretend I am to reinforce a point.

...if that makes sense.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't really think anyone is asking for stuff just "because it's in the PnP", as in for historical preservance of the franchise's mechanical tropes, but rather because the way those things worked for the game and the experience is, broadly, something to want and ask for here too.

I hope all combat indicators (other than ammo remaining) can be turned off.

Why not ammo count too?