Not playing until the scaling issues are addressed.

[SlyNine]

I get that things not scaling up at all can be a balance issue, but the full knee jerk everything scales with you creates far more issues. Now every time I level up, it's more like I level down. Further away from hacking cars, further away from unlocking conversations, further away from assassin style gameplay ( opps I leveled up, now I can't sneak up with a silenced pistol). It feels like I degressing instead of progressing at times. Especially in the middle of a mission when all of a sudden I can't do things BECAUSE i leveled up.

I kinda regret buying Phantom LIberty.

 

[GrumpyFranky]

Feel you there, I made same decision after noticing yesterday, after having invested 30 hours in game, that skill checks are starting to look too high in comparison to what I remember from pre 2.0.

The best solution would be just make scaling toggleable in options.

 

[Guest 4716340]

I've literally done the same thing. I hope CDPR realize how unpopular it is across the board.

 

[Nixilos]

I've just been grinding it out in Pacifica honestly. I got tired of every weapon I find that isn't iconic being throwaway as soon as you level up and start seeing higher tiers. If your weapons are high tier you feel stronger than your enemies, and if you level up and start seeing higher tier weapons than what you are using you are going to be tickling them unless you heavily specialized in that weapon for a sizeable boost in damage somewhere.

Even tech bolts tickle them if your weapon isn't strong enough, my own fault for playing on very hard though but I'm not gonna back down now, and changing difficulties probably bugs something out with how this game tends to work. I'm not excited to find that out the hard way so I'll just assume.

I went and did some scanners and gigs last night, not quite level 50 yet but close. Still finding tier 3 junk in containers down in Heywood. The item levels don't scale in containers? I'm not sure yet but feelsbadman. I just want my time inspecting the loot to not be a complete waste, that too much to ask?

 

[TheLocalHentai]

Agreed on most of the skill check aspects, it's becoming more of an attribute upkeep tax rather than actual progression. Enemy health and damage in combat is in a good spot for the level scaling, but some of the skill checks suddenly getting too high is counterintuitive. Why would a subnet connection suddenly become harder than another subnet in the same area?

A random roll range would be good. Like yes, not every terminal should be hackable if you aren't "skilled" enough, but having them all become unhackable just doesn't make since.

 

[Tonysharp420]

The scaling is fine i played throught the game on hard as my first playthrough and didn't have much trouble besides bosses.

 

[DjSpyder]

I don't mind the Level scaling of enemies, its the skill check scaling that is a problem IMO, Things that should not be very hard in theory needing a 20 skill check is wild.

Like for instance, and small spoiler here if somehow you haven't done rivers quest line at any point..... With 16 int I can crack the password and get into the locked laptop but need a 20 int skill check to ping an IP address?? it just feels like a serious over correction to something most people did not see as an issue.

Enemy level scaling at least adds a challenge to combat or keeps some level of excitement in fights that having a maxed-out V didn't really have pre-2.0, But the skill checks are something else it feels like locking off something just because they can. I Dunno maybe from a balance standpoint or build standpoint you could argue that it makes your choices when leveling more important, but in practice it just feels like putting up a wall that doesn't really add anything.

 

[Tetsuo2]

I really don't get why people have issues with the skill checks. The way this is done now is just to add a little bit of flavor to the dialogues and some gameplay choices (doors etc) based on your "class choice" essentially.

If you play netrunner, you will pretty much be able to pass all the int based skill checks, and none of the body or reflex or tech ones. That's pretty much how it should be, you get class-based extra options for the class you specialize in. Just a game design choice. I think it is fine, and it completely baffles me how people would decide to "not play the game until this is fixed".

When considering the level of whining on this forum regarding the skill checks I was fully expecting to end up stuck in some quest because of those horribly broken skill checks, but it turned out to be a nothing burger,just a game design choice that people have an opinion about.

Just try to play the game that actually exists instead of obsessing about your private fantasy of how the game should be in your head, you'll have more fun that way.

 

[DjSpyder]

Just try to play the game that actually exists instead of obsessing about your private fantasy of how the game should be in your head, you'll have more fun that way.

That last line feels a little harsh.

Saying I don't like a change they've made, is not Obsessing, I have actually been pretty positive towards the update with this being my only real criticism, however I have seen some of the negativity you're referring too, but I don't know if I agree the original post in this thread, rises to that. I'll say sharing thoughts on something like this is completely valid as long as it doesn't cross into flaming posts.

I'll agree some of the sentiment on here can get a little overdone with the criticisms leaning more towards hating on the game, and there is definitely a difference between constructive criticism and bashing something, but it's completely fair to point out they probably overcorrected in this case.

Especially looking at lore/context of some of these actions. At 17 intelligence with a cyberdeck I can literally launch a suicide quick hack that will make someone take themselves out, and possibly spread to another person, but can't ping an IP address? it just feels a little Odd. At least that is my take on it.

But as for this one quote....

"If you play netrunner, you will pretty much be able to pass all the int based skill checks, and none of the body or reflex or tech ones. That's pretty much how it should be, you get class-based extra options for the class you specialize in"

The problem is, it's not balanced like that right now, my level 60 Build, is 20 Tech, 20 Body, 20 Reflex 17in and 4 cool. SO, I've basically sacrificed all stealth, focus, and throwing weapons, in favor of the other trees. 17 int is not low, I can open any lock with tech or body, and I can breach and hack most things, unless the 20-skill check throws up a brick a wall. The old way, only Specific things had a 20 check if it made sense in the context, now its level scaling, which means even if it should be a 10 based on "Lore" it's a 15 because the player hit a specific level. I'm seeing a lot of 20s on basic hacks that feel like they should be way lower if it was based on the world's rules and not my level. Also Gorilla arms, can help pass Body skill checks for doors/etc... but no other Cyberware can boost other skill checks, especially now with the scaling, It just feels like something is off about how they implemented it.

It's a valid criticism, having said all of that, as much as I don't like the change, I 100% agree with you that it's not worth quitting the game over, it's not game breaking, it hasn't ruined it, and I'm still playing, I'd like a bug fix for Cyberware before I continue too far into PL. But I'm still mostly enjoying the game. But if the point of the forums is to discuss and give feedback I think this is very much a note CDPR should consider, although I don;t expect them to roll back the change. As long as it doesn't devolve into "F*&K CDPR, I Hate This" all Caps yelling and flaming I don't see an issue.

 

[VanillaBaron]

When considering the level of whining on this forum regarding the skill checks I was fully expecting to end up stuck in some quest because of those horribly broken skill checks, but it turned out to be a nothing burger,just a game design choice that people have an opinion about.

There is at least one quest (Brendan) that can be blocked because of scaling skill checks.

Just try to play the game that actually exists instead of obsessing about your private fantasy of how the game should be in your head, you'll have more fun that way.

It's not a private fantasy, it's how the game worked before 2.0! It's also not 'private' because the balance of opinion here on this forum, about this change, is heavily skewed towards it being a bad change. Even from those who like the level scaling. It's not just one person complaining about it.

 

[Crimsomrider]

I really don't get why people have issues with the skill checks. The way this is done now is just to add a little bit of flavor to the dialogues and some gameplay choices (doors etc) based on your "class choice" essentially.

If you play netrunner, you will pretty much be able to pass all the int based skill checks, and none of the body or reflex or tech ones. That's pretty much how it should be, you get class-based extra options for the class you specialize in. Just a game design choice. I think it is fine, and it completely baffles me how people would decide to "not play the game until this is fixed".

It doesn't add any flavor based on classes nor anything meaningful... that's actually what pre-2.0 Cyberpunk did and why nobody had an issue with it. Precisely because it was done right.

What 2.0 does is entirely take away any sense of character growth and progression while simultaneously saying "Hey player, yes you! You've become dumb as scop! Congratulations dummy, now you can't even open this broken fence because you leveled!".

What these attribute checks are doing are insulting both V and the player by literally dumbing down V as a character to the point they forget how to use a keyboard or open a simple door or even a broken fence gate.

Want an example? Here...

Level 31 both examples. Had no issue whatsoever opening grates, gates, doors, windows... now I gained a few levels and V forgot how to open them.

• You want to tell me that it is "normal and immersive" for V in the year of 2077 to forget how to open grates, gates, doors, windows... yet can still turn off highly-advanced cyber cameras, repair engines, bypass electrical circuits and work with some complex machinery in other quests?
• You want to tell me that 17 TECH to open a stupid window is okay? Come on... for 17 TECH I expect V to be working on a lunar rocket engine, not a damn hatch.

Personally I am playing the game, but absolutely despise every single second I come across this immersion-breaking nonsensical BS feature.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

There is at least one quest (Brendan) that can be blocked because of scaling skill checks.

Don't bother me much, not uncommon in RPG to have content locked behind a specific skill, origin, whatever... If you don't have the required "thing", you just can't do it, you have to live with it

It's also not 'private' because the balance of opinion here on this forum, about this change, is heavily skewed towards it being a bad change. Even from those who like the level scaling.

I don't mind the enemy level scaling, it prevent the huge drop in difficulty after level 35 (no matter the difficuly you play). But attribute chek scaling, nope. I hope they will change their mind and return to the original system.

If I had to guess, the idea behind attribute level scaling is to offer the same chance to succeed whatever your level.
Just one example :
Let's imagine a quest with five attribute checks, all fixed to 10 (one for each attribute). Now if a player do this quest at level 10-15, no way to get them all (one, two or three if he play a Jack All Trade character). If another player do the same quest, but at level 50, there are great chances he will be able to get them all, easily (or most).

So I assume CDPR introduced attribute level scaling to "try" to provide equal chances to succeed attribute checks, whatever the player's level. On the paper and in theory, it doesn't seem to be bad... but in really and in the game it is (really) bad, sadly

 

[DjSpyder]

The problem with the Attribute scaling or skill check scaling or whatever, is that It feels at least to me, somewhat poorly implemented. There are still some very early Checks with an extremely high level (For where the player is at the time), so going back to it later would make sense, unless it scales, then it feels almost impossible to ever get because it will constantly increase. Which I guess is fine, If the intent is to lock something behind a specific "build type" or "Class." but if that's not the intent then it's just poor design.

It's an idea that I get in theory, I just think it's poorly implemented here. Again, using the laptop check as an example. I can easily crack into the laptop with a 15-attribute level check, and I can disable all of the hideout defenses when I get there, take out turrets and mines by hacking, crack into all the tech there, But I couldn't do something so basic as pinging the IP address? because that was a 20 check? It just seems like something that would be super easy based on the rules of the "CP world", and its lore, but is locked off because the rules of the "Game" decided that is the harder of the 2 checks on that mission.

Or the broken fences, like ok let's look at it as lockpicking in other games, Basic, Novice, Expert, Master.... sure, the locks get harder, but also usually the difficulty is attached to the "Type" of lock or door or chest, so a bank Vault would be a master level, but a personal safe would only be novice/intermediate, So, in lore, a broken fence that is hanging with some locks and chains, should be easy all the time 5-10 check and a heavy security door should be Master 17+ check, but with level scaling something you used to be able to do no problem, now is a problem because you have a 16 stat and need a 17. Because you leveled up one time too many.

From a gameplay standpoint I get what they are trying to do here, but from a lore standpoint, as well as an implementation standpoint I just think they're missing the mark a little. Not nearly enough to "Ruin" the game or make me want to stop playing, But I personally preferred the old system, if they're going to keep this one in, I'd like to see them rebalance it a little at least, Like they did with the door for the thermal katana. by capping that door at a lower level so people could go back for it later if they missed it. Put max attribute caps on specific checks so they never get "Too Hard' or harder than what makes sense in the lore. I don't expect it, but it would be nice if there wasn't this wall where V seems to forget how to do stuff they could previously do because the numbers just decided to go up.

 

[VanillaBaron]

Don't bother me much, not uncommon in RPG to have content locked behind a specific skill, origin, whatever... If you don't have the required "thing", you just can't do it, you have to live with it

I was responding to this

I was fully expecting to end up stuck in some quest because of those horribly broken skill checks

i.e. I was pointing out there was one quest that was possibly blocked, I was not arguing whether having blocked quests was acceptable or not.

I don't mind the enemy level scaling, it prevent the huge drop in difficulty after level 35 (no matter the difficuly you play). But attribute chek scaling, nope. I hope they will change their mind and return to the original system.

Yep, I wasn't arguing for or against level scaling, only pointing out that many supporters of level scaling are opponents of skillcheck scaling - you included!

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Yep, I wasn't arguing for or against level scaling, only pointing out that many supporters of level scaling are opponents of skillcheck scaling - you included!

Yep, I'm the perfect example of what you said. That's why I quoted your post

 

[Dr_Messor]

I'm okay with the level scaling, but the attribute scaling was a significant misstep on the Dev's part. I'll finish Phantom Liberty because I have a nearly maxed out character from my old save, but I don't think I'm going to be doing a new game until they remove this particular "feature". As others have said, it just does not make sense that you become effectively enfeebled by leveling up and it really sucks the fun out of things.

 

[Nixilos]

You can try to look at it like V is dying from the Relic and not running at 100%, genius level intellect will still struggle if sleep deprived and in pain for example. I'm gonna TRY to headcannon my way through this, but there is a mod out there for this if it's still working in 2.01 for those of you that can't or don't want to.

 

[fhu]

I loved CP from day 1, bought it twice. One for me and one as a gift. I played hundreds of hours, and I was so excited about Phantom Liberty.
But then it released. I downloaded 2.0 and started the story from scratch to experience everything without interruption. Then I realized they had introduced level scaling. I quit the game, and refunded Phantom Liberty.

I'm really sad, but I will never buy any DLC for CP, or any future version of CP that has level scaling.

It's ruined for me. And clearly I'm not the only one.

For the love of God, please at least make it optional