Nope, we don't need to speak to everyone. Completely useless feature. Sure, Bethesda does that for the most part and those npc's are terrible. Communities suffer because of that as they are relatively small with few npcs's. Night City is a huge city. It will have thousands of npc's. There is not really a point in making every npc speakable, just the one the matter. You don't need them anyway.
Actually, no. Bethesda's newer games don't do that. What they do is set up specific conversations for a ton of NPC's.
In Daggerfall, all non-important NPC's basically shared a list of dialogues. I think doing the same, except maybe changing specific options for special characters (such as guard, merchants, doctors, etc) and adding some personality (some people not talking to you, others being aggressive, etc) would make the game really feel alive.
Because otherwise all those faceless NPC's on the streets really have absolutely no purpose in being there. If they can't be interacted with then they shouldn't exist. And the game should essentially just be a handful of NPC's in an empty city. Because it's essentially how it is when random NPC's are useless. Companies like to throw in all those NPC's in games to try and make the world seem alive, but mostly it just does the opposite as you essentially have mannequins moving along rails which completely destroys immersion.
Yes, that is precisely my point. They share the same lines (somtimes even npc's could speak in different voices which was just magical
, newer ones probably don't do that anymore), they lack personality . As far as non speakable npcs goes, they do have a purpose , they add to a the game atmosphere, they make it look alive. You don't speak to them because you don't have a reason to. If you go (in real life) to a bakery to buy a bread through the city you will be pass by plenty of people, you won't talk too them because you have no reason to. If the city was empty however, you would feel a massive difference, you would feel that a city is lifeless. Thats their purpose
I hope that all NPCs can be talked to whether it's useless or not. It makes the world feel alive. Also buildings (interiors I mean) are a must for open world games, whether it's apartments, nightclubs, restaurants, or corporate buildings.
All interiors? No chance and no need. Can you imagine GTA V having every building fully explorable? I
Everyone babbling their personal problems/merital issues and so on to a random stranger is precisely what kills the immersion. Novigrad, Beauclaire, or any city in GTA feels more believable, immersive and alive than city in TES or Fallout...even if you can't grab every object or talk with every character.
Plus this results in dialogue that feels completely disjointed, almost like it was written by someone who doesn't even know how humans communicate.
In real life it would go something like this. .You're walking down the street, going about your merry way and suddenly this woman, ( that you've never seen before in your life) jumps right in your face and goes:
"I just bought this marvelous dress for sale and I think it looks splendid on me!"
What the...?
"Oh, I know my best friend's husband keeps coming home late every night...I'm sure he's having an affair!!!"
Xcuse me, m'am, but I'm not sure you've got the right..
"Did you see my niece's new boyfriend? I don't think he's any good for her!"
But what does that have to do with..
Yes?Yes?Hello?...Yes!Wonderful weather we're having lately! Get away from me!
Something like that.
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I'm not talking about random NPC's spouting gibberish as they tend to in most RPG's these days.
I'm talking about being able to walk up to an NPC and ask for directions to the nearest store. Or where Police HQ might be.
In Daggerfall you could talk to anyone walking the streets. Most weren't that friendly, though you could bribe or charm your way to better conversation. You could ask them where certain places of interest were, and they'd tell you (some didn't know, or would give you a general direction, while others marked your map).
You could also get general info from people as to what's happening in their town or the surrounding area. Find out who's hiring. What's going on in politics (in their opinion anyway).
You know, normal everyday interactions people have. If I'm in a city I don't know and am looking for a place, I ask someone walking by for directions.
I'm talking about being able to walk up to an NPC and ask for directions to the nearest store. Or where Police HQ might be.
In Daggerfall you could talk to anyone walking the streets. Most weren't that friendly, though you could bribe or charm your way to better conversation. You could ask them where certain places of interest were, and they'd tell you (some didn't know, or would give you a general direction, while others marked your map).
You could also get general info from people as to what's happening in their town or the surrounding area. Find out who's hiring. What's going on in politics (in their opinion anyway).
You know, normal everyday interactions people have. If I'm in a city I don't know and am looking for a place, I ask someone walking by for directions.
Yes, but that results in spreadsheets more than characters.
Ideally, I'd like to see more of these types of characters added to the game, strictly for ambiance and dialogue, non quest related...like Jules from Fallout II, to provide directions, clue in the player on potential quests and other characters and so on.
Having "local" NPC's (street kids, local workers, cops, etc) being more accurate and useful about local info would make sense. While say corporate workers, or tourist types wouldn't know much (or just wouldn't care to help). Merchants of course would be fonts of information, as it comes with the job.
And of course, skills would be important. Your streetsmart skills would help you get info out of a street worker or junkie that some corporate style character wouldn't be able to get.
Basically instead of hand crafting each NPC, they could simply fall into general categories, each with a list of info they can give you. And within those, just add a randomizer for personality (helpful, standoffish, violent, etc).
That way with a little tweaking, rather than spending months crafting very out of place individual dialogue, you get a more immersive and "living" world.
Thats a dialogue writing problem not a design problem with NPC ai or something. Fallout New Vegas had no issues with random NPCs telling you their life story(unless you become friends with companions than they'll open up to you). Its an Obsidian game sure but it copied Bethesda style of Fallout(3D open world) and made it good. In terms of open world design and mechanics Bethesda games are much more complex. If Bethesda games had great writing it would crush any other game out there in immersion since their open world design is leagues better and more complex mechanically speaking.Everyone babbling their personal problems/merital issues and so on to a random stranger is precisely what kills the immersion. Novigrad, Beauclaire, or any city in GTA feels more believable, immersive and alive than city in TES or Fallout...even if you can't grab every object or talk with every character.
Plus this results in dialogue that feels completely disjointed, almost like it was written by someone who doesn't even know how humans communicate.
In real life it would go something like this. .You're walking down the street, going about your merry way and suddenly this woman, ( that you've never seen before in your life) jumps right in your face and goes:
"I just bought this marvelous dress for sale and I think it looks splendid on me!"
What the...?
"Oh, I know my best friend's husband keeps coming home late every night...I'm sure he's having an affair!!!"
Xcuse me, m'am, but I'm not sure you've got the right..
"Did you see my niece's new boyfriend? I don't think he's any good for her!"
But what does that have to do with..
Yes?Yes?Hello?...Yes!Wonderful weather we're having lately! Get away from me!
Something like that.
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Err...no. Consistency and cohesion when it comes to world design are abysmal in all of Bethesda games. From mini "cities" that exist with no water or food supply without districts that indicate any kind of segregation, to poor environment transition and even worse designed ecology, to illogical placement of characters/encounters/locations, to populace living without any sense of hygiene even two hundred years after nuclear apocalypse.
Bethesda, intentionally, designs their worlds for player's "there is something around every corner!" amusement...which at first is exciting and has understandable appeal for a lot of players.
But it also results in disconnected, modular, inorganic world that falls apart under any close scrutiny.
Something I'd like to bring up in regards to interaction is Arcanum. Which I'm sure has been referenced a number of times because it was epic in so many ways.
But the aspect I'm thinking of is windows. In Arcanum, windows were valid entry points into buildings. They were often easy to get through than a door. And often a way of getting in a building past those who would raise an alarm. There were a number of places where you could sneak into a backroom of a shop, bypassing the shopkeeper out front. You could often also break into a shop at night that way more easily than by the door (which could have guards wandering in front of it).
Also made for a quick escape route when things went pear shaped.
I'm hoping that we get more than just doors are entry points into buildings. Not saying every building needs to be accessible. But I'd say that most places should have multiple ways of gaining entry.
But the aspect I'm thinking of is windows. In Arcanum, windows were valid entry points into buildings. They were often easy to get through than a door. And often a way of getting in a building past those who would raise an alarm. There were a number of places where you could sneak into a backroom of a shop, bypassing the shopkeeper out front. You could often also break into a shop at night that way more easily than by the door (which could have guards wandering in front of it).
Also made for a quick escape route when things went pear shaped.
I'm hoping that we get more than just doors are entry points into buildings. Not saying every building needs to be accessible. But I'd say that most places should have multiple ways of gaining entry.
But given that CP2077 is a high-tech paranoid world I wouldn't be at all surprised to see many windows barred and/or alarmed.
I would say vertical dynamic open and closed level interactions would be perfect.
Like in Disnonored 2. You could change how area works toward player's interest/agenda.
This is why GTA, Watch dogs style level design does not feel alive. I believe player must be immersed in the world not just drive by static objects.
Also, verticality of levels is also important to give this feel of the world.
For example, if this artwork would capture the feel of some hub area, player would have freedom to explore lower and levels above his relative standpoint. He could find some entrance to that highest building and go forward to his quest mission. He could find some transport device, elevator, secret corridors or tunnels etc.
Like in Disnonored 2. You could change how area works toward player's interest/agenda.
This is why GTA, Watch dogs style level design does not feel alive. I believe player must be immersed in the world not just drive by static objects.
Also, verticality of levels is also important to give this feel of the world.
For example, if this artwork would capture the feel of some hub area, player would have freedom to explore lower and levels above his relative standpoint. He could find some entrance to that highest building and go forward to his quest mission. He could find some transport device, elevator, secret corridors or tunnels etc.
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Going through Mafia I ( for first time) right now. Will post my impressions when finished, but so far feels good. Really different. Nothing is spelled out for you...no markers, no glowing objects or any modern "innovations".
Like the mission I just finished. Had to save a fellow brother in crime, front doors are locked, climbed on top of boxes for an entry in the back, found a machine gun in one of the rooms upstairs, took them out easily, another one tried to do a run away with the money ( after one miraculously resurrected himself), but didn't get far because, aha, I expected that and put a few holes into their tires before going in.
Boss is going to pleased.
Like the mission I just finished. Had to save a fellow brother in crime, front doors are locked, climbed on top of boxes for an entry in the back, found a machine gun in one of the rooms upstairs, took them out easily, another one tried to do a run away with the money ( after one miraculously resurrected himself), but didn't get far because, aha, I expected that and put a few holes into their tires before going in.
Boss is going to pleased.
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Many of the minor open world actions seen in the Mafia-video of the first post seem kind of gimmicky to me. A few years back, I might have said the opposite but Witcher 3 (and some other games) made me realize that best immersion comes from a well-implemented story. Of course, a good world that feels alive does a lot too but one like that doesn't require detailed but redundant interaction. "Detailed interaction" in this case meaning stuff like breakable objects and surroundings (that don't serve any gameplay effect), flushing toilets and entering every possible building.
NPCs are a different story though and can have a much bigger impact on how you perceive the world. In Witcher 3, I never felt any need for more interaction than hearing a short reply from random people but just by walking around and seemingly going on with their everyday life, they fulfilled their role to make the world feel alive. There were enough of them and they didn't feel like static objects. Mass Effect, for example, was disappointing to me in that sense.
What I'd like to see from Cyberpunk 2077 mostly depends on what direction CDPR decides to go with the game. If they go with story-drive style, I'm happy with the way the world was implemented in Witcher 3 but if they're making a world where the character is supposed to live in (i.e. sandbox), I'd like to see more. Of course, everything you could do should have some meaningful effect and not be just a visual gimmick. Most of all, it would be nice to talk to other people.
There were already several comments about how random NPCs would react differently to your approach, some telling you where the closest store is and some not even wanting to talk. Reading some of these comments, I started to think about Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor where most enemies were random orcs but by killing the main character, they could rank up and become a bit more meaningful as captains and lieutenants. Could this be done with NPCs too? What if NPCs were generated randomly with some basic archetypes and only if player chose to interact with them in more depth, they became persistent characters (e.g. they'd have a place they lived in, a job, history etc.)? This kind of approach wouldn't require every NPC to have complete back story ready and the game would still have enough random NPCs to fill a crowded street.
NPCs are a different story though and can have a much bigger impact on how you perceive the world. In Witcher 3, I never felt any need for more interaction than hearing a short reply from random people but just by walking around and seemingly going on with their everyday life, they fulfilled their role to make the world feel alive. There were enough of them and they didn't feel like static objects. Mass Effect, for example, was disappointing to me in that sense.
What I'd like to see from Cyberpunk 2077 mostly depends on what direction CDPR decides to go with the game. If they go with story-drive style, I'm happy with the way the world was implemented in Witcher 3 but if they're making a world where the character is supposed to live in (i.e. sandbox), I'd like to see more. Of course, everything you could do should have some meaningful effect and not be just a visual gimmick. Most of all, it would be nice to talk to other people.
There were already several comments about how random NPCs would react differently to your approach, some telling you where the closest store is and some not even wanting to talk. Reading some of these comments, I started to think about Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor where most enemies were random orcs but by killing the main character, they could rank up and become a bit more meaningful as captains and lieutenants. Could this be done with NPCs too? What if NPCs were generated randomly with some basic archetypes and only if player chose to interact with them in more depth, they became persistent characters (e.g. they'd have a place they lived in, a job, history etc.)? This kind of approach wouldn't require every NPC to have complete back story ready and the game would still have enough random NPCs to fill a crowded street.
Actually, the idea of improving enemies from Shadow of Mordor is a nice one. And throw a little STALKER in there too.
Let's say this: the game starts with various gangs in place. Over the course of the game, the gangs fight with each other for power and territory. So you'll see the stores and areas switch sides from time to time, and some places getting more or less built up and defended. Each gang would have groups of members that go around fighting each other (as factions do in Stalker). And when a group beats another, or claims an area, their leader levels up (as the Orcs do in Shadow of Mordor), getting better stats/gear.
The player naturally would have an impact on how the gangs are doing. Either by directly helping a gang, or just by doing missions in a gang's area and likely weakening their power there.
This would lead to situations where sometimes you'd have some newbie gang leaders (or sub leaders) and sometimes you'll find someone who's been hardened by defending their territory many times over. It would make for some truly unique NPC's that develop over time.
Let's say this: the game starts with various gangs in place. Over the course of the game, the gangs fight with each other for power and territory. So you'll see the stores and areas switch sides from time to time, and some places getting more or less built up and defended. Each gang would have groups of members that go around fighting each other (as factions do in Stalker). And when a group beats another, or claims an area, their leader levels up (as the Orcs do in Shadow of Mordor), getting better stats/gear.
The player naturally would have an impact on how the gangs are doing. Either by directly helping a gang, or just by doing missions in a gang's area and likely weakening their power there.
This would lead to situations where sometimes you'd have some newbie gang leaders (or sub leaders) and sometimes you'll find someone who's been hardened by defending their territory many times over. It would make for some truly unique NPC's that develop over time.