And you know what ... I'm perfectly happy with that.
Many games claim to be a sandbox but that's only possible with player/DM interactions. There's no way any game can be coded to handle even a fraction of what players may wish to do. The best they can do is have systems in place that allow player interaction, yes multi-player is vital to an open world. The problem of course is that means your story-line can't be very deep because there's no way to know exactly how much of the story-line a given player has experienced at a given point in the game or how skilled/equipped they may be.
That's why I have high hopes with CP...Witcher didn't need much given the set player role( why would Geralt need to sleep at inns, sit at chairs, chop wood, etc?), but understanding and talent is there, when it comes to crafting consistent, believable worlds...that matters far more across the length of the game.
More object interaction is something that can easily be added. Dying light also had phenomenal first person parkour, that added far more than cluttering the world with items.
That Mafia video is weird, i get what the guy is trying to tell but what made the first and second game better especially the first were not all those things you could interact with, yes that's nice detail but the gunplay in the first one is actually challenging , weapons with recoil, no minimap, no icons above heads, you actually have to listen carefully to npc's. I remember when Paulie tells you were to get weapons for the bank heist, the car and where to place it, he tells you exactly where to go and you are forced to listen because there's no mission log no hand holding whatsoever. Don't want to remember the racing mission though.... that can stay buried. And yeah.. the biggest problem of Mafia 3 is repetitive mission design.
I have to clarify one thing. Bethesda were never the "kings" of Open World design. They copied all that from Gothic. All those daily routines, people living there lifes, having secrets etc. Piranha Bytes knew how to create Open Worlds (let's not talk about 3 and those pirate games.. maybe risen 1 was ok). Bethesda knows how to create Sandboxes and that's it. As far as i know alot of the people at CDPR are Gothic fans, those games were pretty big in Poland and that's were they have to look how to create an Open World. Gothics World design is still to this day the best one, people have just forgotten because sadly they don't do good games anymore.
I couldn't care less if i can't sit on every chair in the game, there are more important things to work on. I'm confident though that they will make the World more interactable, they did a decent job with there first Open World and like they said learned alot from that.
I have to clarify one thing. Bethesda were never the "kings" of Open World design. They copied all that from Gothic. All those daily routines, people living there lifes, having secrets etc. Piranha Bytes knew how to create Open Worlds (let's not talk about 3 and those pirate games.. maybe risen 1 was ok). Bethesda knows how to create Sandboxes and that's it. As far as i know alot of the people at CDPR are Gothic fans, those games were pretty big in Poland and that's were they have to look how to create an Open World. Gothics World design is still to this day the best one, people have just forgotten because sadly they don't do good games anymore.
I couldn't care less if i can't sit on every chair in the game, there are more important things to work on. I'm confident though that they will make the World more interactable, they did a decent job with there first Open World and like they said learned alot from that.
Last edited:
if we have a vehicle it is essential to find/buy/steal fuel
weapon merchants, to buy or steal new items
and detail are very important to make an open world alive and believable, for example people bumping into geralt when he is standing,
or the character makes commens on the weather or the traffic, or what other npc's are doing
weapon merchants, to buy or steal new items
and detail are very important to make an open world alive and believable, for example people bumping into geralt when he is standing,
or the character makes commens on the weather or the traffic, or what other npc's are doing
With vehicles we sure should be able to choose Nomads' role and ride across the coast a la Mad Max. Speaking for myself, I'd spend there at least half of playtime since it's so enjoyable to escape from dense and smoke clouded city
Bethesda are the kings at making Open Worlds since 2003 which was the release of Morrowind. Taking techniques from other games such as Gothic and making it even better is a good thing not a bad thing. Also CDPR being Gothic fans is like Valve being fans of WoW. As gamers they were fans of these games but they didn't copy or implement anything from these games into their games. Witcher 3 open world design is more similar to Zelda, Red Dead Redemption, Ubisoft games and Dragon Age than anything in Gothic.
You need to read again the name of this thread which is not about who's the "King" of the open world genre"... its more important to see what aspects would work well in CP, that turn this into some childish contest.
And from my experience, there is absolutely no "ruler" of any kind here...it is too broad and complex genre that for someone to succeed at all aspects would require staggering resources( Far Cry: Emergent Gameplay, Gothic: Economy, TES: Object placement/interaction, CDPR: Consistent/Cohesive World design, Rockstar: Destructible objects, detailing, AC: Parkour and so on..)
This is based on my opinion how the world design should be.
Level design should not be as GTA but as in Dishonored 2 or Deus Ex: MD. So, it would not follow open world but it would feel as
it is connected. Also, I would like quest would set a theme. It is nicelly explained in Dishonored 2 video.
I like how the levels in D2 are made dynamically. Levels could change pulling the switches and that way player could choose other paths.
Level design should not be as GTA but as in Dishonored 2 or Deus Ex: MD. So, it would not follow open world but it would feel as
it is connected. Also, I would like quest would set a theme. It is nicelly explained in Dishonored 2 video.
I like how the levels in D2 are made dynamically. Levels could change pulling the switches and that way player could choose other paths.
Ironically the Witcher 3 open world design felt very similar to Ubisoft games which is not a good thing. Plenty of useless question marks, smuggler barrels, boring point of interest locations and treasure chests. No reward for exploration and very static fake move set feeling to the world. The world was filled with the same crap time filler junk Ubisoft games did. Out of the all the company's that make great worlds like Bethesda or Rockstar to copy its open world design from they choose Ubisoft which make boring generic open worlds. Smh at CDPR.
Last edited:
i think the single player story is the most important part and it can develop in an open world, big city ,
less "points" of interest hard to reach,
if there are more than one map, all should have the same amount of proportional content,
less "points" of interest hard to reach,
if there are more than one map, all should have the same amount of proportional content,
I prefer open world games, but the problem is the cardboard world like GTA/Mafia,etc where the buildings are just cardboard, you cannot enter them or doing anything with them unless they are part of a quest. I want it like the elder scrolls, if you see it you can go to it. Also, they don't just need quests or missions, but they need a lot of side activities to keep you interested in the WORLD. Say what you will, but I loved GTA:SA because you could do a lot of things on the side, go to the gym, go to the gym, dating girlfriends, play pool, triathlons, racing, burglary, cloth shopping, etc. The world should be fun, with a lot of things to do that does not require a mission. I would like to go to a bar, shoot pool with some NPC's, talk to them about random stuff. Go to a club, get a one night stand/girlfriend, get on the net, explore cyberspace, meet other hackers and talk about the latest hacks, or the latest gear, politics, whatever. Go and shop, go and get new cybergear, go to a robots store and buy a new servant robot (think the show HUMANS) to clean my house/act as secretary/security system/sexbot./whatever, play whatever virtual games are in the future, get a telescope and watch the night sky, looking at the moon and seeing the starships luanch into space, or look at the space stations in the sky and on the moon. Just a lot of fun stuff to do.
The real problem in most open world games and that usually create a fake urgency in the story..
Take for example Fallout4 or Skyrim or even Witcher 3
While they are encouraging you to discover side activity... They usually tend to distance side activity from the main quest... Why instead don't design sidequest in manner that are relevant on the story and don't force a sort of fake urgency on the main quest?...
New vegas did this right....
Even Morrowind...
Take for example Fallout4 or Skyrim or even Witcher 3
While they are encouraging you to discover side activity... They usually tend to distance side activity from the main quest... Why instead don't design sidequest in manner that are relevant on the story and don't force a sort of fake urgency on the main quest?...
New vegas did this right....
Even Morrowind...
if it's not story driven i will be mad.
i mean it's the MOST amazing part that CDPR does.
why would they put a huge filter of sand box on it ?
i mean it's the MOST amazing part that CDPR does.
why would they put a huge filter of sand box on it ?
Honestly the best RPG storys come from where you're not urgently needed here or there.
Just do what you want.
exactly, a good story needs a good interesting main objective, no hurry, hurry is for some side quest,
Yeah like FONV kinda had the thing where "Oh guy shot you in the head? You can go find him.....if you want to." and it worked out brilliantly.
Yeah, being forced along a path or rushed really kills the enjoyment of a game. It's great to be able to take it at your own pace.
Choose how to proceed, or even if you will at all.
My most played Elder Scrolls game (by far) was Daggerfall. And though I played dozens of characters, I only actually beat the game a couple of times. Why? Because I would get to the point early in the main quest where you deliver a letter and then your next step is to talk to a specific character, and there is no set time limit on doing so. So now that I'm not being rushed to accomplish things within a deadline, I can now wander off and do whatever the hell I want. I am not forced to continue the main story until I choose to.
I would inevitably end up with a maxed out character who's head of many guilds with big shiny houses and a huge ship and more money than god. But it was great, because I did it my way. At my own pace.
Witcher 3 is doing well with that. I start the main quest, then basically ignore it to do everything I can in an area. Only once I've completed all the side quests and cleared all the special locations do I bother coming back to the main quests I'm supposed to be doing.
Choose how to proceed, or even if you will at all.
My most played Elder Scrolls game (by far) was Daggerfall. And though I played dozens of characters, I only actually beat the game a couple of times. Why? Because I would get to the point early in the main quest where you deliver a letter and then your next step is to talk to a specific character, and there is no set time limit on doing so. So now that I'm not being rushed to accomplish things within a deadline, I can now wander off and do whatever the hell I want. I am not forced to continue the main story until I choose to.
I would inevitably end up with a maxed out character who's head of many guilds with big shiny houses and a huge ship and more money than god. But it was great, because I did it my way. At my own pace.
Witcher 3 is doing well with that. I start the main quest, then basically ignore it to do everything I can in an area. Only once I've completed all the side quests and cleared all the special locations do I bother coming back to the main quests I'm supposed to be doing.
I would love to see Mafia II levels of interaction with the world around us.
Interacting with items everywhere, using common services (any vendor or service, not just the typical RPG equipment vendors), being able to interact with doors/cars in various ways (open/close, kick in, smash down, pick lock, shoot out lock, etc).
And we should be able to talk to EVERYONE. Not just specific NPC's.
Take a look at a classic like TES: Daggerfall. You could talk to pretty much any NPC on the street. Not just special ones. Any random person you could walk up to and ask for directions (they would mark things on the map), ask about where to find work, ask about local history and politics. We need that kind of option in this. Naturally not everyone needs to have a huge list of things to say, but being able to ask any random NPC on the street basic questions would be great, and make sense. And of course, different people would have different personalities. Some would be happy to chat, some won't talk to strangers, others will be violent or insulting. Give us random people that we can interact with. Having the swarm of faceless and speechless NPC's is honestly just stupid. It really doesn't fit in any game.
Most games just have non-important NPC's spout off some random comments, but it makes no sense why we can't just walk up to a guard or merchant or just person on the sidewalk and ask how to find X or what's going on in the city.
Interacting with items everywhere, using common services (any vendor or service, not just the typical RPG equipment vendors), being able to interact with doors/cars in various ways (open/close, kick in, smash down, pick lock, shoot out lock, etc).
And we should be able to talk to EVERYONE. Not just specific NPC's.
Take a look at a classic like TES: Daggerfall. You could talk to pretty much any NPC on the street. Not just special ones. Any random person you could walk up to and ask for directions (they would mark things on the map), ask about where to find work, ask about local history and politics. We need that kind of option in this. Naturally not everyone needs to have a huge list of things to say, but being able to ask any random NPC on the street basic questions would be great, and make sense. And of course, different people would have different personalities. Some would be happy to chat, some won't talk to strangers, others will be violent or insulting. Give us random people that we can interact with. Having the swarm of faceless and speechless NPC's is honestly just stupid. It really doesn't fit in any game.
Most games just have non-important NPC's spout off some random comments, but it makes no sense why we can't just walk up to a guard or merchant or just person on the sidewalk and ask how to find X or what's going on in the city.