Open World? Sandbox? Or the main story?

[Suhiira]

One thing that REALLY annoyed me about W3 was the damn wolves. They obviously scaled as you leveled ... why? I fully understand they don't want encounters becoming trivial but they could at least have varied the wolves so they felt different. Grey wolf, black wolf, white wolf for instance so you could say to yourself "Wow, these black wolves are tougher then the grey ones I use to see" and YES sometimes encounters will become trivial, your character has improved so you expect them to. If they don't you're left feeling "Hey I've put 20 hours into this game and gained 10 levels and I'm not a bit better then when I started'.

 

[dragonbird]

One thing that REALLY annoyed me about W3 was the damn wolves. They obviously scaled as you leveled ... why? I fully understand they don't want encounters becoming trivial but they could at least have varied the wolves so they felt different. Grey wolf, black wolf, white wolf for instance so you could say to yourself "Wow, these black wolves are tougher then the grey ones I use to see" and YES sometimes encounters will become trivial, your character has improved so you expect them to. If they don't you're left feeling "Hey I've put 20 hours into this game and gained 10 levels and I'm not a bit better then when I started'.

They weren't designed that way, so unless you had the option turned on to scale up the enemies...? Or were using mods...? Or it was NG+ where the levelling is screwed up...?

On the vanilla game, the white wolves in Skellige were a higher level than the black wolves in Velen, but none of them scaled up.

That's one aspect of open world design I think they got right. You could stumble across something far too high a level, and you could either try it to see if you were up to it, or run like hell.

But from a player perspective, it is a problem, if "run like hell" causes you to fail the quest. They would need to be careful about when and where such encounters happen.

 

[Suhiira]

They weren't designed that way, so unless you had the option turned on to scale up the enemies...? Or were using mods...? Or it was NG+ where the levelling is screwed up...?

On the vanilla game, the white wolves in Skellige were a higher level than the black wolves in Velen, but none of them scaled up.

All I know was that from beginning to end wolf packs were about the most dangerous thing I faced since they attacked from multiple directions and had some sort of "lunge" that interrupted you, thank god they didn't knock you down!

 

[Sorrosyss]

I'd like a combination of all three honestly. I think GTA V did a great mixture of the three, supplanting the open world with enough activities to keep you exploring, but also enough sandbox to keep things interesting. That plus the story lead you to new areas of the map constantly. Witcher 3 had a bit of a tendency to send you all over the place, so I'd like to see things a bit more focused down with Cyberpunk. Not too linear, but there needs to be some direction to keep the story on track and relevant in my view.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Open World Interaction

Didn't find a specific thread where this was already discussed, but this came to mind after seeing this video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixlszwKVVP0

Now, obviously with limited time and resources developers have to prioritize here ( Imo, they could have added a few things to world in Witcher ) so post here what you'd think would be (more or less) essential for "everyday" gameplay in CP.

 

[Sardukhar]

New threads are cool - not like we are overrun.

Here are some similar reads for ideas as well:

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/27136-A-Living-Breathing-NIGHT-CITY

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/26980-The-Game-World-Map!

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/31100-Gameplay-depth-vs-complexity-vs-quot-fun-quot

 

[cyberpunkforever]

interaction with the game world is very important for immerson, but too many can make the game boring

 

[Aditya]

I feel The Witcher 3 had a a spectacular world immersion, but well at times even that felt short like you couldn't pet dogs (or Roach!)
as long as most is strictly optional/skippable "too much"won't really hurt

 

[Narshredder]

Didn't find a specific thread where this was already discussed, but this came to mind after seeing this video :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixlszwKVVP0

Wow Mafia 3 looks like a straight downgrade..

 

[Medhundy]

Hey first time poster here. Anyways I think the Witcher 3 did a fairly good job with the open world and open interaction but it still felt like a movie set. You cant talk to most non quest NPCs and backround NPCs felt really static/robotic. Bethesda still are the kings of open world design, open world interaction, and immersion imo. Closer to Bethesda style of open world design and less like Ubisoft/Rockstar open world design the better for Cyberpunk imo.

 

[Tarathelion]

Hey first time poster here. Anyways I think the Witcher 3 did a fairly good job with the open world and open interaction but it still felt like a movie set. You cant talk to most non quest NPCs and backround NPCs felt really static/robotic. Bethesda still are the kings of open world design, open world interaction, and immersion imo. Closer to Bethesda style of open world design and less like Ubisoft/Rockstar open world design the better for Cyberpunk imo.

Oh, god please no.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Wow Mafia 3 looks like a straight downgrade..

To be honest, that video is a bit one sided and Mafia II has a lot of "fluff" that you notice once and ignore the rest of the game.

My point is more to focus on what would be essential:

Buying food/nutrients on streets. ( Please no super health restoration chicken sandwiches...something with very light, but long term bonuses that adds a bit to "survivalism" but without breaking the setting),

Handplaced objects, placed logically ( please NO chests with a ton of random loot, standing out in the open...player animation like this : https://youtu.be/EWJD8DMasCU?t=317). You will have a far more refined and balanced system this way, without having to patch everything dozen times over. Win/win for both the players and developers.

Non quest related npc's that would "clue" in player on what's going on in that specific section of the world, hint at quests, etc. This gives the player a more chance to "breathe in" without making every interactable npc feel like straight to business quest giver or shopkeeper( Witcher could have definitely had more of this).

 

[Suhiira]

I guess I just see buying food and using the restroom as unnecessary fluff in a game. These, and many other things, just sort of happen in the background. In order for them to have any value in the game they must somehow effect it. And let's face it "Chicken sandwitch +1 to perception for 1 hour" isn't exactly the sort of thing that creates immersion.

I totally agree hand placement is best, but it's also a LOT of work and if you use any sort of "leveled equipment" system (which I detest) it becomes impossible. Because in an open world type game there's no way to know what level the character will be at what point in the game. Of course not using any sort of leveling system in the first place solves this, but I don't really expect that because too many people out there think leveling is what RPGs are all about.

I don't mind the shopkeeper giving the quest, (s)he's the one hiring you after all. But I'd prefer to have other NPC point you to them not a big yellow marker over their head.

 

[Mebrilia]

Make the open world interactive

Allow my character to sit on every seat...
Allow my character to actually interact with the world..
Witcher 3 open world was fantastic but also felt a lot of limited because there was little interaction

 

[metalmaniac21]

After Fallout 4, if bethesda still considered to be legitimate open world kings, then anyone is welcomed to play King of the Hill and kick these lazy hacks out of throne. Rockstar with GTA V pretty much nailed the NPC interactions.

 

[Medhundy]

Make the open world interactive

Allow my character to sit on every seat...
Allow my character to actually interact with the world..
Witcher 3 open world was fantastic but also felt a lot of limited because there was little interaction

This is exactly what I am trying to say as well. Witcher 3 world looked amazing and gave a good illusion of living world but it still felt like a nice movie set. This is what Bethesda has the edge over everyone in terms of open world in interaction.

---------- Updated at 05:44 PM ----------

After Fallout 4, if bethesda still considered to be legitimate open world kings, then anyone is welcomed to play King of the Hill and kick these lazy hacks out of throne. Rockstar with GTA V pretty much nailed the NPC interactions.

I think you're confusing the quality of dialogue, characters and writing rather than pure mechanical open world design which Bethesda are the kings of. Rockstar style of NPC interaction for an rpg imo isn't immersive enough. In Rockstar games or even the Witcher 3 for that matter it all looks like nice movie set. You can't actually talk with most NPC in the world, you cant pick up stuff from the ground, you can't sit on chairs, etc.. Dont forget all NPC in Bethesda games have daily routines and actually do stuff when you're not there. Name one game that has this because I can't name any that aren't Bethesda games. All Bethesda is missing is good writing and more depth in actual rpg mechanics. This is exactly what Fallout New Vegas did and it ended being up be one of the best rpgs of this current decade even though its running on a shitty engine.

 

[metalmaniac21]

I think you're confusing the quality of dialogue, characters and writing rather than pure mechanical open world design which Bethesda are the kings of

I don't. Bethesda's "world design" is an individual set pieces thrown together like a theme part with the same attitude and care for internal consistency. Yes, you can stuff your inventory in any container and sit on any chair. So what? NPCs have their schedule since Shenmue, bethesda just made automated the process with small behavior ai packages and made it half-assed. And they don't do stuff until you enter the area.

 

[Medhundy]

I don't. Bethesda's "world design" is an individual set pieces thrown together like a theme part with the same attitude and care for internal consistency. Yes, you can stuff your inventory in any container and sit on any chair. So what? NPCs have their schedule since Shenmue, bethesda just made automated the process with small behavior ai packages and made it half-assed. And they don't do stuff until you enter the area.

NPCs in the Witcher 3/Rockstar games are even more robotic and set piece like lol. All of your criticism for Bethesda are more geared towards CDPR/Rockstar open world design which is very movie set like.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

This is getting out of hand...Witcher was more an open world adventure game, than sandbox intended to lull the player into leading a virtual life...it's interaction emphasizes action and mobility, in which Bethesda games are lacking. In that sense it was closer to Creed, than TES.

I'm sure they'll add more object interaction here, given entirely different direction.

---------- Updated at 06:24 PM ----------

NPCs in the Witcher 3/Rockstar games are even more robotic and set piece like lol.

Actually both Rockstar and CDPR do a much better job of emulating economy and life in settlements and on their design. Amount of interaction matters little if it is delivered poorly.

Always found it strange how "cities" have about ten people and everyone is delivering exactly three lines of heavy exposition of their very personal history to a complete stranger they know nothing of.

 

[Medhundy]

This is getting out of hand...Witcher was more an open world adventure game, than sandbox intended to lull the player into leading a virtual life...it's interaction emphasizes action and mobility, in which Bethesda games are lacking. In that sense it was closer to Creed, than TES.

I'm sure they'll add more object interaction here, given entirely different direction.

---------- Updated at 06:24 PM ----------



Actually both Rockstar and CDPR do a much better job of emulating economy and life in settlements and on their design. Amount of interaction matters little if it is delivered poorly.

Always found it strange how "cities" have about ten people and everyone is delivering exactly three lines of heavy exposition of their very personal history to a complete stranger they know nothing of.

I completely disagree wtih you both saying Witcher 3/Rockstar open world style is better and more advanced its actual more primitive and lifeless in terms of its design compared to Bethesda games. Nothing happens in the world, enemies are always arranged in identical encounters and stick to one spot on the map (you will always encounter the same configuration of neekers or ghouls or wolves, etc. it's very predictable and repetitive). The NPCs themselves are window dressing, they don't do anything and they're not important. There's no activities or interaction in the game besides Gwent and fist fighting. Inns, taverns, etc. are pointless. Dont forget you rob villagers and guards dont even bad an eye yet Oblivion did proper crime system 11 years ago with more advanced systems than the Witcher 3. Like a I said before it feels like movie set rather than really world like Mojave wasteland or Skyrim. CDPR is still behind Bethesda in terms of open world design which is forgiven since its their first open world game and they still did a very good job.