Absolutely mystified as to why this change was necessary.
I don't include this in my decks, and this will make it a little easier to counter it, but I can't think why the change was needed.
spontaniously i can onyl think of one deck where the dragons will be powerfull: it is the keltullis deck. first round destroy as much as possible, second round play the dragons.
I wouldn't call it big nerf for bounty nekker... For example in my own deck i just have to replace Roach with some other SY card with 7 provisions... Not sure if this is really nerf... For bounty deck thinning is not so crucial as for pirates.
Man look, I could never bring myself to play something like NR Engines or ST Harmony solitaire, I need decks which aren't that one-dimensional to play. Even if engine overload decks were meta all the time, I wouldn't be happy to play them because they usually bore the hell out of me. When I was more active I used to play both NG and SY and of course they're good factions, but always calling NG "easy mode" and "the laziest" faction to play just because they're supposed to be favoured by the devs (why should they deliberately destroy their own game by overpowering a single faction all the time??) is a whole lot of accusations I don't see a lot of (any?) proof for. Sure, there're cards which do too much for their cost, but please tell me a single faction which doesn't have this problem? Plus I've never seen a pro player refer to NG as "the easy way", I've heard quite the opposite actually for most of the past decks. Again, doesn't mean it's a bad faction or incredibly hard to play all the time, not at all. And it may be the most annoying faction to face for the majority of players, but that doesn't automatically make it easier and better than the rest.
No, because "easier" and "better" are different things. Or should be, anyway, except with the way Enslave's been tier 1 for the last 6 months, every now and then the devs forget that. Same goes for cards that do too much for their cost: there's a difference between "OP" and "easy" to play. You just read my entire post and say you don't "see... (any) proof?" Calveit isn't proof? Yenvo isn't proof? The non-neutral "fix"? Everything else I mentioned in passing isn't "any" proof? I guess there's nothing that's going to make you see the proof then. Not the fact that NG can pretty much answer any matchup without breaking a sweat (which, again, isn't the same as saying it will automatically win every game), not the fact that the majority of powerful neutral cards favor NG, not the fact that the majority of seasonal modes favor NG, not the fact that NG is the most popular faction in the game.
And NR Engines and ST Harmony solitaire bores you? Well, what is soldier spam? (Which, by the way, illustrates where NG players gravitate in terms of "ease," as between the crossbowman and light cav the crossbowman has a much "harder" condition (must play a soldier???what??), so it's barely played in favor of the much simpler cav.) What is cultists? What is assimilate but a better version of Harmony? It seems more intellectually pleasing to you, because it plays the opponent's cards instead of your own? But that's an illusion. To make it actually interesting, there would need to be a "drawback," a real "condition" of some sort, and there's isn't. And you know what has a "condition"? Harmony "solitaire." It's called unique tags. Unlike assimilate, I can't just play the harmony cards in whatever the hell order I want and multi-trigger all of the engines without effort by playing all of the opponent's create cards multiple times for cheaper cost THAN the opponent. I actually have to sequence and think. And that's a simpler deck, because it really only has one condition.
Listen, it's been a known thing for as long as Gwent existed that NG is easy to play, easy to climb with, most annoying to play against, but at higher play levels it tapers off a bit, because people who really know how to play other factions find ways to beat NG despite it being harder to play other factions. This is still mostly true, but with Enslave 6 sitting on top of the meta for months now without a nerf, it's becoming aggravating, because something that's easy to play should NOT also be the most powerful deck in the meta. All that does is further increase NG population in the game, which is NOT good for the game by any means, and which is what we're seeing happening right now.
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Mine my not be the typical reaction to NG, but I also appreciate how it keeps many of the excesses of other factions in check. I would find Gwent far less pleasant without it.
Not going to repeat my last post again to argue against your bullet points, but I do want to quickly address this bit. This idea of NG being the guardians of the meta is also backwards. Rather than protecting us, NG is preventing variety in the meta, as people on ladder only play decks that can stand "the NG test". I personally only play ST and even I have like a dozen decks I simply can't play because NG exists in its current form. And they aren't "excesses". They are just decks full of combo plays and slow builds and payoffs which are simply not playable because of NG. Needless to say, I would find Gwent a lot more pleasant without NG.
Absolutely mystified as to why this [the rot Tosser] change was necessary.
I don't include this in my decks, and this will make it a little easier to counter it, but I can't think why the change was needed.
No, because "easier" and "better" are different things. Or should be, anyway, except with the way Enslave's been tier 1 for the last 6 months, every now and then the devs forget that. Same goes for cards that do too much for their cost: there's a difference between "OP" and "easy" to play. You just read my entire post and say you don't "see... (any) proof?" Calveit isn't proof? Yenvo isn't proof? The non-neutral "fix"? Everything else I mentioned in passing isn't "any" proof? I guess there's nothing that's going to make you see the proof then. Not the fact that NG can pretty much answer any matchup without breaking a sweat (which, again, isn't the same as saying it will automatically win every game), not the fact that the majority of powerful neutral cards favor NG, not the fact that the majority of seasonal modes favor NG, not the fact that NG is the most popular faction in the game.
And NR Engines and ST Harmony solitaire bores you? Well, what is soldier spam? (Which, by the way, illustrates where NG players gravitate in terms of "ease," as between the crossbowman and light cav the crossbowman has a much "harder" condition (must play a soldier???what??), so it's barely played in favor of the much simpler cav.) What is cultists? What is assimilate but a better version of Harmony? It seems more intellectually pleasing to you, because it plays the opponent's cards instead of your own? But that's an illusion. To make it actually interesting, there would need to be a "drawback," a real "condition" of some sort, and there's isn't. And you know what has a "condition"? Harmony "solitaire." It's called unique tags. Unlike assimilate, I can't just play the harmony cards in whatever the hell order I want and multi-trigger all of the engines without effort by playing all of the opponent's create cards multiple times for cheaper cost THAN the opponent. I actually have to sequence and think. And that's a simpler deck, because it really only has one condition.
Listen, it's been a known thing for as long as Gwent existed that NG is easy to play, easy to climb with, most annoying to play against, but at higher play levels it tapers off a bit, because people who really know how to play other factions find ways to beat NG despite it being harder to play other factions. This is still mostly true, but with Enslave 6 sitting on top of the meta for months now without a nerf, it's becoming aggravating, because something that's easy to play should NOT also be the most powerful deck in the meta. All that does is further increase NG population in the game, which is NOT good for the game by any means, and which is what we're seeing happening right now.
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Not going to repeat my last post again to argue against your bullet points, but I do want to quickly address this bit. This idea of NG being the guardians of the meta is also backwards. Rather than protecting us, NG is preventing variety in the meta, as people on ladder only play decks that can stand "the NG test". I personally only play ST and even I have like a dozen decks I simply can't play because NG exists in its current form. And they aren't "excesses". They are just decks full of combo plays and slow builds and payoffs which are simply not playable because of NG. Needless to say, I would find Gwent a lot more pleasant without NG.
No, I'll probably never get your point and I don't think that's remotely possible from a neutral standpoint. There's so much obvious hate mixed with dubious statements ("known fact that NG is easy to play", I've literally never heard any streamer or youtuber say that, like ever) that it's indeed pointless. I've made the mistake of trying to understand everyone on here way too often now, I'm sorry for that.
Firstly, I was clearly talking about NG in general, as this was literally Barracuda's statement. Something like "it's obvious to everyone that NG has always been easy to play and to climb with", so your "proof" is clearly missing the point. Show me someone who's actually saying that, shouldn't be too hard if it's that much of an "open secret". Moreover, I could show you Team Elder Blood's latest report, where NG is only tier 3. Meaning it's been one of the worst performing factions last season. Again, not saying at all it's bad, but where is the "unbearable domination" right now that would justify those hefty nerfs certain people want?
Firstly, I was clearly talking about NG in general, as this was literally Barracuda's statement. Something like "it's obvious to everyone that NG has always been easy to play and to climb with", so your "proof" is clearly missing the point. Show me someone who's actually saying that, shouldn't be too hard if it's that much of an "open secret". Moreover, I could show you Team Elder Blood's latest report, where NG is only tier 3. Meaning it's been one of the worst performing factions last season. Again, not saying at all it's bad, but where is the "unbearable domination" right now that would justify those hefty nerfs certain people want?
So if all people play NG just remove all the rest of the factions? this argument is totally invalid. Elder blood meta must be outdated, MO Frost Tier 2? Come on..... What is this 10.0?
The idea of a competitive game is having a mixed nash equilibrium (Valid wasy to win)...
This is an interesting video — but to me (and I only had time to watch partway through the second game), it fails to demonstrate that NG is easy to play.
First, I note that the deck presented is not the enslave 6 deck around which many complaints center.
Second, I found Qcento to think deeply about both his plays and anticipated actions of his opponent. In fact, frequently in his preliminary discussion of the deck he emphasized the importance of judgment in reaction to opponent plays as opposed to fixed card order.
Third, the deck derives much of its power from broken neutral cards (it is a Renfri deck!), not from the NG cards that are the focus of NG complaints.
Fourth, the first opponent played one of the abusive, very draw dependent decks that I am thankful not to see succeed (in this case a MO, multiple Gernichora, multiple rounds design that even included Mandrake as a tech against purifying defender and Al) — which only reinforces my position that NG provides a valuable service reducing abusive and binary decks (although this deck is so draw dependent it scarcely requires NG opponents to lose). In fact, the actual game was decided when the MO player appeared to fail to draw his recalled Sabbath fo round three and forfeited.
So if all people play NG just remove all the rest of the factions? this argument is totally invalid. Elder blood meta must be outdated, MO Frost Tier 2? Come on..... What is this 10.0?
The idea of a competitive game is having a mixed nash equilibrium (Valid wasy to win)...
Okay, I won't complain about the "patch", because what for? The devs just do their own stuff regardless.
On the positive side - bye, stupid Drakenborg, NR has enough deck-buffing stuff as is. And I really love the Mahakam Defender change, Seems logical and lore-consistent. It's almost it's not from Gwent.
Man look, I could never bring myself to play something like NR Engines or ST Harmony solitaire, I need decks which aren't that one-dimensional to play. Even if engine overload decks were meta all the time, I wouldn't be happy to play them because they usually bore the hell out of me. When I was more active I used to play both NG and SY and of course they're good factions, but always calling NG "easy mode" and "the laziest" faction to play just because they're supposed to be favoured by the devs (why should they deliberately destroy their own game by overpowering a single faction all the time??) is a whole lot of accusations I don't see a lot of (any?) proof for. Sure, there're cards which do too much for their cost, but please tell me a single faction which doesn't have this problem? Plus I've never seen a pro player refer to NG as "the easy way", I've heard quite the opposite actually for most of the past decks. Again, doesn't mean it's a bad faction or incredibly hard to play all the time, not at all. And it may be the most annoying faction to face for the majority of players, but that doesn't automatically make it easier and better than the rest.
It is pretty evident than NG is not well regarded in this forum, if you look at past conversations. And the reason is that said faction clearly has overpowered cards, and last year, when the devs supposedly re-engineer it, they brought more annoying card descriptions. Anyway, if many of those annoying cards would have the right provision cost, I guess it would be fine, but no, they are cheap cards compared to the potential damage they can generate.
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> why should they deliberately destroy their own game by overpowering a single faction all the time??
That is the question many of us ask. Why they do that? yet patches pass and they don't fix them. It's as if they don't read this forum, which I would assume is the official. No, reddit should not be the official, nor youtube.
> I don't see a lot of (any?) proof for.
Barracuda listed many. Looks like you overlooked. For us simple non-pro players, those cards are really annoying and look unfair
- a card that is able to sort from better to worst? and also manages to go up in the availability to be chosen? c'mon
- a card that can remove an oposing card just because the oposing has a status? any status? c'mon
- like 5 ways/turns on which they can lock an enemy? c'mon
- can reset leader ability just like that? c'mon
- a card that generates stack damage in every turn, and has 15 points but only cost 12? (or so) Tibor? c'mon
- and so on. well he listed in broad terms. For us who face that, we knew at the instant what he was describing without going into details
It is pretty evident than NG is not well regarded in this forum, if you look at past conversations. And the reason is that said faction clearly has overpowered cards, and last year, when the devs supposedly re-engineer it, they brought more annoying card descriptions. Anyway, if many of those annoying cards would have the right provision cost, I guess it would be fine, but no, they are cheap cards compared to the potential damage they can generate.
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> why should they deliberately destroy their own game by overpowering a single faction all the time??
That is the question many of us ask. Why they do that? yet patches pass and they don't fix them. It's as if they don't read this forum, which I would assume is the official. No, reddit should not be the official, nor youtube.
> I don't see a lot of (any?) proof for.
Barracuda listed many. Looks like you overlooked. For us simple non-pro players, those cards are really annoying and look unfair
- a card that is able to sort from better to worst? and also manages to go up in the availability to be chosen? c'mon
- a card that can remove an oposing card just because the oposing has a status? any status? c'mon
- like 5 ways/turns on which they can lock an enemy? c'mon
- can reset leader ability just like that? c'mon
- a card that generates stack damage in every turn, and has 15 points but only cost 12? (or so) Tibor? c'mon
- and so on. well he listed in broad terms. For us who face that, we knew at the instant what he was describing without going into details
In your subjective opinion, it is, I have no doubt about that. Does your list sound more convincing for other people by adding "c'mon" at the end of every single description of a card which might have found play the last couple of months? By simply saying "NG doesn't need to fulfill conditions, unlike every other faction?" Nauzicaa Sergeant, completely useless both in round one AND when having to bleed your opponent is nothing? Locks, needing to target an engine or a card with a special ability because otherwise they're huge bricks is nothing? While at the same time, those said engines vomit out points like there's no tomorrow if they don't get put in check? I think you've described the matter pretty well: For some players the cards "feel annoying", "look unfair" and are "obviously and always the easiest and cheapest to play". And there's no proof or any objective evidence here. And that's why it's always been impossible for me and others to understand certain points and arguments from an objective standpoint. Peace and out.
To list "bad" cards within a faction is not proof that the faction either imbalanced or "easy". Every faction has plenty of bad cards. Some time ago I listed over 100 cards I thought should be nerfed. Those cards run across all factions, and I don’t think the situation has changed.
While i dont play anymore i still feel like answering this NG discussion.
Yes it can be really annoying to face some NG decks and cards like calveit and vilgefortz shouldnt exist. But are you guys serious when you say NG has all this unfair cards?
What about SK playing svalbold, repeating its ability for several times in one Turn creating a 100 points swing? Or playing some highland warriors, than literally kill everything you play and still having Sove - a Card with mostly more than 20 points and immunity. What about melusine played in three rounds? Or lets take ST with simlas playing for 5-10 waylays, or harmony scenario creating like 50 points in one turn. What about SY poison? Or bounty? NR reavers, priestesses, knights… Monsters that can create multiple copies of keltullis, dagon or whatever they want. Or their sir broken a lot that triggers thrive every turn - yours and opponents.
These are only some examples. Every single faction has a lot of These terribly broken and binary cards nowadays. Most of them are answer or lose. And facing them is not less annoying than broken NG stuff. Also most of them are not harder to Pilot than NG decks. And many of those binary decks are lost if one or two OP cards are answered.
NG is the faction that certainly has the most ways to answer them. So if you Play some broken answer or lose crap please stop crying about NG answering it.
Again, I'm not sure why it's so hard for some people to grasp the difference between factions having various "bad" or "OP" cards and NG having cards that make the game "easy to play."
Is Calveit "OP" or "broken" in the way that Reavers are broken? No, but no other faction can just skip mulligans and drawing cards, which are fundamental concepts of Gwent. No other factions can skip having to ADD [read: WASTE PROVISIONS on] consistency cards. Therefore, Calveit makes the game easier to play for NG. This is basic, rudimentary stuff. It's laughable, actually. There used to be NG Hyperthin, which you had to be like a complete ding dong not to arrive at the same 2 last cards left in the deck - kind of like the NR priestess stuff now - but then the devs figured that actually WASN'T easy enough, because it required a very specific build and having to do all this thinning and whatnot, and they said, what if they get a card that lets them skip all that? Lol. And it IS easier than that NR stuff, because NR uses the leader to draw, while NG uses a card, that's not exactly a tempo hit either.
Anyway, same goes for other things I listed. Those cards and mechanics aren't necessarily "more broken" than whatever else it is you love to complain about in any given season - certainly MILL, for example, thankfully isn't tier one (yet) - but they make the game easy to play, because you don't have to worry about pesky "conditions" or setting up combos, or knowing the opponent's decks(since you can just look, in the rare event that you care), etc etc. And NG has more of these plug and play cards, archetype and mechanics (that are both, easy AND good enough to be widely used) than any other faction.
