I mean, this is the root of what I'm saying. V is forced to be a certain way in the endings to maintain the themes they wanted the endings to have, at the expense of any characterization V's had so far, unless you've been playing in line with that ending the whole time. There is a "right way" to play the game while it still has RPG elements, so both suffer.
This is I think a lot of people's core issues with the game - they want to stay in NC with or without their LI and be happy, but the main theme of the game is you really can't do that. Wrong city, wrong people like Johnny said.
The thing is, V is the player character and whether V is happy or not should be our decision to make. Let's say someone out there played V who did want to become a legend, that it's the only thing that mattered to them. Even that kind of V can't be happy or even content. The problem with the endings is that they decide too many things for the player.
Your V could have everything they ever wanted in NC but they can't be happy because it goes against "Night City bad".
The thing is, V is the player character and whether V is happy or not should be our decision not something forced on us. Let's say someone out there played V who did want to become a legend, that it's the only thing that mattered to them. Even that kind of V can't be happy or even content. The problem with the endings is that they decide too many things for the player.
Your V could have everything they ever wanted in NC but they can't be happy because it goes against "Night City bad".
There is a lot more to it than 'Night City Bad'. If all your V wanted was to be a legend, you get that in the Sun. A legend wouldn't want love or friends though, just glory, which comes at a price, you can't have it all.
If all V wants is to be a legend, whats wrong with the Sun? Why wouldn't V be content with that? You are running the biggest jobs and running afterlife, living a life of luxury.
There is a lot more to it than 'Night City Bad'. If all your V wanted was to be a legend, you get that in the Sun. A legend wouldn't want love or friends though, just glory, which comes at a price, you can't have it all.
Yes, V does become a legend but they don't sound any more content regardless if they romanced anyone or not. There's no "I finally made it" moment, the vibe that ending can give off is that no heist will be enough, that V will continue one-upping their own accomplishments until they can't. That doesn't sound like contentment to me.
The thing is, V is the player character and whether V is happy or not should be our decision not something forced on us. Let's say someone out there played V who did want to become a legend, that it's the only thing that mattered to them. Even that kind of V can't be happy or even content. The problem with the endings is that they decide too many things for the player.
Your V could have everything they ever wanted in NC but they can't be happy because it goes against "Night City bad".
There is no objective point to suggest V is or isn't happy in the sun ending. This whole idea rides on a personal interpretation of a voice actors tone of voice. V says like 10 lines outside of the LI conversation, none of them show how V feels.
The real truth, V sounds unhappy to the player, mostly because the player feels unhappy in that moment. Its not that the game determined Vs feeling, its that the situation you found V in, and the LI's perspective on V dominated your perspective on V.
When I did the sun ending after doing don't fear the reaper, with no LI, V seemed focused, and determined, not unhappy. I have heard other people in this thread say essentially the same thing. Its the player bringing their own feelings in. And actually I think thats pretty great writing for an rpg.
Yes, V does become a legend but they don't sound any more content regardless if they romanced anyone or not. There's no "I finally made it" moment, the vibe that ending gives is that no heist will be enough, that V will continue one-upping their own accomplishments until they can't. That doesn't sound like contentment to me.
The game doesn't give you any clear tells on V's inner state, mostly because doing so would make it more difficult for the player to insert their own feelings in. If V said I'm happy, that would invalidate those who feel like V is not happy. The ending can be read many ways.
Yes, V does become a legend but they don't sound any more content regardless if they romanced anyone or not. There's no "I finally made it" moment, the vibe that ending gives is that no heist will be enough, that V will continue one-upping their own accomplishments until they can't. That doesn't sound like contentment to me.
It's lonely at the top. The game hinted at it with the rogue arc. Rogue is queen of NC, but she's clearly miserable and regets what happened with a Johnny. She raided Arasaka twice and has run afterlife for 50 years and is miserable, why would V be any different?
You can't be content and run afterlife, it's futile, the whole point is that no heist is big enough if you want to stay on top since life in NC is so cutthroat. If you get content, you stop taking risks, and then someone else takes power from you. Then you don't have resources to save yourself.
It's lonely at the top. The game hinted at it with the rogue arc. Rogue is queen of NC, but she's clearly miserable and regets what happened with a Johnny. She raided Arasaka twice and has run afterlife for 50 years and is miserable, why would V be any different?
You can't be content and run afterlife, it's futile, the whole point is that no heist is big enough if you want to stay on top since life in NC is so cutthroat. If you get content, you stop taking risks, and then someone else takes power from you. Then you don't have resources to save yourself.
well, she's not that miserable, from Johnny's perspective she is, and she clearly has strong feelings about Johnny and what happened to him, but she also has a adult child, she also likes being a fixer. The game is very good at presenting a story from a certain perspective, but acknowledging things aren't black and white.
I think rogues main regret is Johnny/Survivor's guilt, and possibly losing her Young rebellious self. I don't think rogue sees her whole life as bad. Johnny just stirs up her old self.
The game doesn't give you any clear tells on V's inner state, mostly because doing so would make it more difficult for the player to insert their own feelings in. If V said I'm happy, that would invalidate those who feel like V is not happy. The ending can be read many ways.
Well, that's what optional lines picked by the player are for.
I tried to choose the most optimistic and determined lines I could find, but in the autodialogue V still sounds dejected, both in the AV with Delamain and when speaking to MBE in space ("Times when I had something to gain are long gone, now I got nothing to lose", even MBE finds it grim).
Oppositely, V's autodialogue in The Star always sounds hopeful and happy, regardless of what you pick in the optional lines. V always throws away the bullet necklace, sounds happy to leave ("We're going home!") and even manages to give Panam an enthusiastic pep talk about the positive side of going back to where she started (which I agree with, just pointing out the tone).
Well, that's what optional lines picked by the player are for.
I tried to choose the most optimistic and determined lines I could find, but in the autodialogue V still sounds dejected, both in the AV with Delamain and when speaking to MBE in space ("Times when I had something to gain are long gone, now I got nothing to lose", even MBE finds it grim).
Yeah I actually just re-watched the Path of Glory, and V sounds utterly defeated and desperate. I watched female V. It sounds to me like V regrets staying in NC, but has no choice if he/she wants to live. This is how almost everyone lives in NC though, so it makes sense. To me Mr Blue eyes sounds like he is just taking advantage of V's skills and the situation.
That line in particular is brutal ("Times when I had something to gain are long gone, now I got nothing to lose"), even an AI finds it grim. Mr Blue eyes also uses the expression "flying toward the sun to burn up" to describe the space heist, which i thought was interesting considering the name of the ending.
There is no objective point to suggest V is or isn't happy in the sun ending. This whole idea rides on a personal interpretation of a voice actors tone of voice. V says like 10 lines outside of the LI conversation, none of them show how V feels.
The real truth, V sounds unhappy to the player, mostly because the player feels unhappy in that moment. Its not that the game determined Vs feeling, its that the situation you found V in, and the LI's perspective on V dominated your perspective on V.
That's a fair point but there's a very noticeable difference between how V talks in The Sun and The Star endings. There's even a dialogue option in The Star ending where V explicitly says they'll try all nomad's contacts to try and find the solution to V's situation. In The Sun ending the only thing that hints V's doing the same is one line from Mr. Blue Eyes.
You can't be content and run afterlife, it's futile, the whole point is that no heist is big enough if you want to stay on top since life in NC is so cutthroat. If you get content, you stop taking risks, and then someone else takes power from you. Then you don't have resources to save yourself.
Rogue still seemed very much on top, with (as far as we know) no one threatening her position, and before Johnny showed up her role was being a fixer. Didn't look like she was actively going on jobs herself. Why can't V do the same? Just chill at the club and work as a fixer? Rogue's feelings and regrets come from decisions she made, nothing V does to get the Sun/Don't Fear the Reaper endings comes close to her choice and if it did V should sound the same in the Star ending too because the only regrettable things are the casualties and losing Johnny (if your V considers him a friend) and it happens in both.
Yeah I actually just re-watched the Path of Glory, and V sounds utterly defeated and desperate. I watched female V. It sounds to me like V regrets staying in NC, but has no choice if he/she wants to live. This is how almost everyone lives in NC though, so it makes sense. To me Mr Blue eyes sounds like he is just taking advantage of V's skills and the situation.
That line in particular is brutal ("Times when I had something to gain are long gone, now I got nothing to lose"), even an AI finds it grim. Mr Blue eyes also uses the expression "flying toward the sun to burn up" which i thought was interesting considering the name of the ending.
If the casino heist is a means to a cure, V could always leave afterwards. Without a ticking clock, there are limitless options for V that don't include running the Afterlife or becoming a nomad.
The biggest contrast for me is the tone in the Star, I edited my previous post. My V always told Panam she didn't want to leave and that nomad life wasn't for her. Friendship with Panam and usefulness of Stormtech aside, that was a sudden change of mind.
The thing is, V is the player character and whether V is happy or not should be our decision not something forced on us. Let's say someone out there played V who did want to become a legend, that it's the only thing that mattered to them. Even that kind of V can't be happy or even content. The problem with the endings is that they decide too many things for the player.
Your V could have everything they ever wanted in NC but they can't be happy because it goes against "Night City bad".
Yeah character happiness and character path/direction/priorities should be player's decision.
Not we'll assign your fate/state of mind/priorities based on how you approach final mission.
Rogue still seemed very much on top, with (as far as we know) no one threatening her position, and before Johnny showed up her role was being a fixer. Didn't look like she was actively going on jobs herself. Why can't V do the same? Just chill at the club and work as a fixer? Rogue's feelings and regrets come from decisions she made, nothing V does to get The Sun/Don't Fear the Reaper ending comes close to her decision and if it did V should sound the same in The Star ending too.
Sure she was running things, but I think she regretted a lot of her past choices and her current position. Again this is based on my interpretation of the voice actors lines, the facial expressions, and dialogue choices so YMMV.
As far as V being a fixer, V doesn't really have the kind of time to do that, he has to do something big. I don't think an ending where you just ran afterlife until you were dead would have fit in, but this is where I think the endings could have used more nuance. I for sure don't like how they railroaded your personality based on the rooftop choice like I said earlier.
Well, that's what optional lines picked by the player are for.
I tried to choose the most optimistic and determined lines I could find, but in the autodialogue V still sounds dejected, both in the AV with Delamain and when speaking to MBE in space ("Times when I had something to gain are long gone, now I got nothing to lose", even MBE finds it grim).
Oppositely, V's autodialogue in The Star always sounds hopeful and happy, regardless of what you pick in the optional lines. V always throws away the bullet necklace, sounds happy to leave ("We're going home!") and even manages to give Panam an enthusiastic pep talk about the positive side of going back to where she started (which I agree with, just pointing out the tone).
star seems like it would be hard to sell as a sad V. that much is true. But the I ain't got nothing to lose line, it might be cultural, but that line when I hear it used is often used as a positive. Or at least motivational. But I definitely see why people might interpret it that way.
My V in that ending wasn't about the money and riches, so My first V interpretation was rejecting MBlue eyes trying to sell me on money and power, V was basically rejecting that as his reason for doing this. The I ain't got nothing to lose relates to him doing this to continue to fight for a longer life. Being that he would die soon unless he changes his fate, he has nothing to lose.
If the casino heist is a means to a cure, V could always leave afterwards. Without a ticking clock, there are limitless options for V that don't include running the Afterlife or becoming a nomad.
The biggest contrast for me is the tone in the Star, I edited my previous post. My V always told Panam she didn't want to leave and that nomad life wasn't for her. Friendship with Panam and usefulness of Stormtech aside, that was a sudden change of mind.
Interestingly, I thought in the Star from the voice lines that V didn't really believe that he would live. Instead I thought he was putting on a brave face for Panam so she wouldn't worry, and choosing to trust her and the Aldecaldos to save him.
This is strictly from Male V's voice lines and tone, and the English version of the game. I wonder if all of the languages got this?
Its crazy everyone is reading into things so differently, I think the only thing we can all agree on this that the voice acting in the game was excellent and very nuanced.
Yeah I actually just re-watched the Path of Glory, and V sounds utterly defeated and desperate. I watched female V. It sounds to me like V regrets staying in NC, but has no choice if he/she wants to live. This is how almost everyone lives in NC though, so it makes sense. To me Mr Blue eyes sounds like he is just taking advantage of V's skills and the situation.
That line in particular is brutal ("Times when I had something to gain are long gone, now I got nothing to lose"), even an AI finds it grim. Mr Blue eyes also uses the expression "flying toward the sun to burn up" to describe the space heist, which i thought was interesting considering the name of the ending.
as I said, my interpretation was that V Had grown beyond the desire for money and riches as the motivation. He is now motivated to achieving something other than that, so mostly thats character growth to me.
Interestingly, I thought in the Star from the voice lines that V didn't really believe that he would live. Instead I thought he was putting on a brave face for Panam so she wouldn't worry, and choosing to trust her and the Aldecaldos to save him.
This is strictly from Male V's voice lines and tone, and the English version of the game. I wonder if all of the languages got this?
Its crazy everyone is reading into things so differently, I think the only thing we can all agree on this that the voice acting in the game was excellent and very nuanced.
Same in another voicing. I've played the Star ending several times and at least one time it sounded like V tries to soothe Panam, but doesn't really believe in any cure. But most times he sounds as someone that is very composed, but still determined to take any opportunity that will help him and his family. He sounds like someone that knows that he can die in two weeks in a gunfight with some Wraiths, that can die in some months because of the Relic or that might live a hundred more years and die peacefully on his camp bed. Short: he sounds like a man that has learned that death is inevitable, but that living is worth fighting for, especially if life has a meaning.
Interestingly, I thought in the Star from the voice lines that V didn't really believe that he would live. Instead I thought he was putting on a brave face for Panam so she wouldn't worry, and choosing to trust her and the Aldecaldos to save him.
This is strictly from Male V's voice lines and tone, and the English version of the game. I wonder if all of the languages got this?
Its crazy everyone is reading into things so differently, I think the only thing we can all agree on this that the voice acting in the game was excellent and very nuanced.
I only played female V, English VO. Some lines sound completely different emotionally when spoken by the male VO so that might have come into play. The conversation with Skye comes to my mind, female V sounds really sad when telling her not to call her Valerie while male V sounds cocky and annoyed.
Well yes and no. You're right: For 95% of the game, it was a great ride i really enjoyed. But the endings and the resulting state of the game spoiled it for me. It may be a little bit harsh to label it crap, but it's like a five course meal: If the desset is crap, the dinner is crap. Hope you get the point
Yep despite my enjoyment beforehand the appalling way the endings were handled spoiled it for me too, like savouring my favourite meal only to suffer food poisoning from it.
I only played female V, English VO. Some lines sound completely different emotionally when spoken by the male VO so that might have come into play. The conversation with Skye comes to my mind, female V sounds really sad when telling her not to call her Valerie while male V sounds cocky and annoyed.
I accidentally picked Angel there since I couldn't remember which was which haha. I loved the convo though - I don't remember much but it was pretty heartfelt and not what I expected.
Same in another voicing. I've played the Star ending several times and at least one time it sounded like V tries to soothe Panam, but doesn't really believe in any cure. But most times he sounds as someone that is very composed, but still determined to take any opportunity that will help him and his family. He sounds like someone that knows that he can die in two weeks in a gunfight with some Wraiths, that can die in some months because of the Relic or that might live a hundred more years and die peacefully on his camp bed. Short: he sounds like a man that has learned that death is inevitable, but that living is worth fighting for, especially if life has a meaning.
