[SPOILERS] My personal beef with CP77- How can we justify Johnny's terrorism? Really?

[artao5]

Others have already said most of what I intended to say. It's all in the lore. Johnny is pissed at Arasaka because of what they did to Alt, and also cuz he knows what they're doing with SoulKiller (Now being actively marketed in CP2077 as Relic, to rich people, so they can have their dead loved ones' engrams on a chip to interact with as they please. There's ads in the game on the TV as well as billboards for it. Arasaka is legit sinister.)
Ultimately Johnny's story is a love story. A seriously FCKED UP love story, but a love story nonetheless.
One thing not mentioned yet is that Saburo Arasaka was literally trying to rule the world. He was a madman.
Also, it's important to note that Johnny and team were working for Militech who, in turn, had been nationalized by the U.S. .. So it COULD be argued that Johnny was a soldier for the U.S. ... Both Arasaka and Militech had already used tactical nukes here and there, and Arasaka had released a bioplague even.

I never played the Firestorm sourcebooks, but I read them a bit. I do happen to have a copy of them on my tablet tho. I should really read them. .... Them corporate wars were ALL SORTS of fscked up. WAY worse than what Johnny did.

Very good synopsis of what was going on in the world at the time the Arasaka building got nuked. Some of this is in the game, but mostly not it seems. Regardless, the game is very lore-friendly.

Fourth Corporate War

The Real 4th Corporate War, from the tales of Cyberpunk Red.Cyberpunk RED The Fourth Corporate War was a global conflict that took place from 2021 to 2025, and involved the two aquacorps CINO and OTEC, who later hired Arasaka and Militech respectively to fight on their behalf. Like the 1st and...

cyberpunk.fandom.com

 

[SakariFoxx]

What part of the game makes you justify Johnny terrorism?

You are never forced to agree with his actions.

Also, y'all know Johnny story was written like 20 years ago right? His act of terrorism is something cdpr merely animated, but if you watched any lore videos or read any books before launch you would know how Johnny "died"

 

[Hexipoo]

Why does his actions need to be justified? In this game, you are never righteous or morally superior. That's not Cyberpunk. Sure, you kill a lot of nasty people, but most are just victims of their own circumstances. Take Arasaka soldiers for example. They are taken in and brainwashed as kids. People are forced to join gangs. Even Jackie was in the Valentinos.

The opening song that was in Borderlands 2 fits Night City SO well.

 

[TemplarGFX]

While I enjoyed his characters moments I have to agree. I never sympathized with Johnny or cared about his plight because firstly he was a mass murderer who did the mass murdering for 'glory' and secondly that he is a total douche to V. When you give him control of your body, what does he do? goes on a bender, gets a tattoo, tries to F a joytoy and gets you into a car crash.

Then there is the fact that the game never tried to make me question if he is more than just a computer program. To me he is not a conscious being but a clever program that mimics a person that was once alive.

just my personal opinion

 

[Hexipoo]

While I enjoyed his characters moments I have to agree. I never sympathized with Johnny or cared about his plight because firstly he was a mass murderer who did the mass murdering for 'glory' and secondly that he is a total douche to V. When you give him control of your body, what does he do? goes on a bender, gets a tattoo, tries to F a joytoy and gets you into a car crash.

Then there is the fact that the game never tried to make me question if he is more than just a computer program. To me he is not a conscious being but a clever program that mimics a person that was once alive.

just my personal opinion

My take as well. Johnny is just malware.

 

[onosendai7]

My take as well. Johnny is just malware.

Then you're not cyberpunk...

 

[Hexipoo]

It's just a copy of a personality. A highly advanced Alexa. It doesn't learn new things, it doesn't attain new experiences and evolve from them. It's not an artificial consciousness, it just pretends to be.

 

[Ghostredneck]

It Is A Game ! How did you justify Geralt's Morality? or his Neutrality?

 

[Aedus_Amaterasu]

It's just a copy of a personality. A highly advanced Alexa. It doesn't learn new things, it doesn't attain new experiences and evolve from them. It's not an artificial consciousness, it just pretends to be.

Based on the experience of my first playthrough I would have a different take on Johnny.

Spoiler

Johnny does change, grow, and learn new things. He also developed new feelings as well. He begin to like the people I, V, liked. He even grew to like the person I romanced. He also refused to let me sacrifice my life to give him a second chance at life. Just my experience though I know there are many different ways things can go with him but this is the Johnny I saw.

 

[Jamie_Candle]

after completing every mission and killing thousands of enemies as a vigilante (anybody who had a yellow arrow on their head, who am i too know their backstory or if their crinimal record is just grafitti. TLDR) and just ouright killing them with no warning and also accidently killing innocents.. (WOOOPS! never used smart or tech weapons lol) i thought to myself yep me and johnny boy are pretty similar. so i basically just sat down and had a beer with him

 

[gurugeorge]

Is it ever explained why the evacuation plan didn't work?

I mean, clearly he didn't intend to kill all those people (evidence: evac message, his disavowal to Saburo's assistant just before being soulkilled), just to blow up the building. Is it ever explained in game why that went wrong?

Or is he really just an unreliable narrator and is blanking out what really happened? (i.e. imagines that he sent out an evac warning, etc.)

 

[ToreadorVampire]

This is just RPG (and now video game) characters in general: Narcoleptic Murder Hobos.

A recent nod to this was made in the newest Suicide Squad movie, when ...

Spoiler: Plot details of recent Suicide Squad movie

the Squad invade a rebel camp to save Rick Flag, just to learn that all the guys they just killed were allies and Flag didn't need rescuing.

In games, it's best not to think about it

Post automatically merged: Oct 4, 2021

Is it ever explained why the evacuation plan didn't work?

IMHO doesn't need to be. I interpret it as "Johnny was very bitter. Whilst his primary goal was not to kill innocents, through his rage they became acceptable losses to him". IE: He's a terrorist, definitely not a good guy and not relatable to me personally.

That said, on my first play-through I intentionally role-played as a similar kind of hot-headed character (based on dialog choices etc) and did strike up an in-game friendship with him. My 2nd play-through I'm playing a much cooler-headed V and I'm basically fighting Johnny at every turn.

 

[gurugeorge]

This is just RPG (and now video game) characters in general: Narcoleptic Murder Hobos.

A recent nod to this was made in the newest Suicide Squad movie, when ...

Spoiler: Plot details of recent Suicide Squad movie

the Squad invade a rebel camp to save Rick Flag, just to learn that all the guys they just killed were allies and Flag didn't need rescuing.

In games, it's best not to think about it

Post automatically merged: Oct 4, 2021

IMHO doesn't need to be. I interpret it as "Johnny was very bitter. Whilst his primary goal was not to kill innocents, through his rage they became acceptable losses to him". IE: He's a terrorist, definitely not a good guy and not relatable to me personally.

That said, on my first play-through I intentionally role-played as a similar kind of hot-headed character (based on dialog choices etc) and did strike up an in-game friendship with him. My 2nd play-through I'm playing a much cooler-headed V and I'm basically fighting Johnny at every turn.

But they're not acceptable losses to him, because he says explicitly to Saburo's assistant just before being soulkilled, that he didn't mean to kill her husband (so logically, not anybody).

So what happened? Did Arasaka ignore the evacuation warning? Did they bungle it? Did Johnny's crew bungle the timing of things? Did the bomb go off prematurely? Did Arasaka set it off prematurely themselves for propaganda purposes? What?

I mean, generally speaking, the distinction between good and evil has willingness to sacrifice innocent victims for your cause as an important criterion. How you view Johnny depends a lot on whether he intended to kill all those people. If not, if it was a horrible accident, then he's still blameworthy, but not necessarily an evil character.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Is it ever explained why the evacuation plan didn't work?

Because "autorities" probably don't know it was a nuke and don't take the threat very seriously as the mayor indicates in the news when uploading the hack to free Alt.
"All is under control... we will do everything to contain the terrorist threat"
Until the explosion...

 

[gurugeorge]

Because "autorities" probably don't know it was a nuke and don't take the threat very seriously as the mayor indicates in the news when uploading the hack to free Alt.
"All is under control... we will do everything to contain the terrorist threat"
Until the explosion...

IOW no, it's not explained

 

[Didacgomez]

IOW no, it's not explained

In lore, the bomb detonated prematurely... it was supposed to detonate below the ground level... In game you can find the stupid action of firing at the cables (an elevator will never fall free by breaking the cables)... in Firestorm CP2020 supplement goes another way, but canon wise is :

Spoiler

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Night_City_Holocaust

 

[GogRelvas]

It's funny that Rogue is never seen as a terrorist though.
On the original lore which I think is still canon in 77 but wasn't mentioned the attack was actually organized by Militech although Johnny still volunteered because of Alt.
But to OP I find it funny to use terms like terrorism even in this dystopian reality. So this is a work of fiction that tells us in this society everyone is incredibly explored by the top corporations and rulers. But still to try and go against this status quo is mindless terrorism. Why is mass murder a crime but if it is against the powers that be it is terrorism? Even when the powers that be are factually against the people?
You're right he killed millions of inocents but again if a civilian tries to murder another one and ends up killing others it is murder. Terrorism is seen as worst, such a brainwash

 

[gurugeorge]

In lore, the bomb detonated prematurely... it was supposed to detonate below the ground level... In game you can find the stupid action of firing at the cables (an elevator will never fall free by breaking the cables)... in Firestorm CP2020 supplement goes another way, but canon wise is :

Spoiler

https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Night_City_Holocaust
View attachment 11257978

Ah, interesting, so at least in the written lore it was a genuine accident then.

 

[ToreadorVampire]

But they're not acceptable losses to him, because he says explicitly to Saburo's assistant just before being soulkilled, that he didn't mean to kill her husband (so logically, not anybody).

As far as the JS character goes, I call bullshit on that. He assaulted the building and at very least the security staff were still present (coz he murdered a heap of them on the job). It was not unreasonable to assume that other staff would be present.

I dismissed his in-character words to the assistant as a hot-head's hollow recriminations after taking actions that they knew to be wrong at the time. I suppose there's my own personal take on that mixed in there, but everyone's going to interpret that in their own way.

I mean, generally speaking, the distinction between good and evil has willingness to sacrifice innocent victims for your cause as an important criterion. How you view Johnny depends a lot on whether he intended to kill all those people. If not, if it was a horrible accident, then he's still blameworthy, but not necessarily an evil character.

I'm comfortable in interpreting JS as evil. JS is just not one-dimensionally evil like your stereotype villain: "He's evil because he likes doing evil things!". I think he's a sufficiently complex and interesting enough villain that a small number might genuinely side with him. It's also quite clever that the game doesn't keep bringing up that he murdered a whole heap of people, nor does V have dialog choices available to match how I assume most sane people would respond: "You're a terrorist and mass murderer, I'm not listening to a word you say or engaging you in conversation". The game steers the player and (to a degree blinkers them) to see a very specific human side of JS, to allow the option of developing a camaraderie.

That said, V isn't exactly your typical hero either. V's supposed to be morally-ambiguous at absolute best. But that's the nature of the CP setting.

Mini-disclosure: In the RealWorld™ I'm very much part of the corporate machine, so my own biases are going to to come into play.

 

[Didacgomez]

Ah, interesting, so at least in the written lore it was a genuine accident then.

Well the "collateral damage" was accident, we can discuss if mini nukes are the best tools for blowing up stuff. Also,if I recall correctly from Firestorm Arasaka actually had its own mini nuke to use it in case of a succesful assault of the tower...so one way or another NC was pretty much screwed i think.