[STORY SPOILERS] The Gripes and Problems with the Story

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What options should be explored // should have been explored?


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Plot continuation will probably be paid ones, around 20-30 bucks. Will we swallow it?
Depends on the carrot.
If the carrot turns out to be another turd, then clearly no.

But they already said that they shipped a final story so my hopes are absolutely not high.
OK. They also said that the endings will be highly satisfactory...
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And hey, I just realized how pointless Temperance is as an ending. It's literally "Hey Johnny, you can have my body, just like you would have it if I'd just stayed on that Misty's roof drinking wine rather than risking your and my friends' lives".

And I also found Temperance a bit cheesy...like Johnny giving up smoking? That's what redemption is? I mean, I didn't mind him being a narcissist from the beginning, if he's a "devil on the shoulder"
It's basically two characters totally acting out of character.
 
Depends on the carrot.
If the carrot turns out to be another turd, then clearly no.

But they already said that they shipped a final story so my hopes are absolutely not high.
OK. They also said that the endings will be highly satisfactory...
Well, some people enjoyed them even there. So CDPR were right...from the certain point of view. I so like Jedi sincerity
 
It's basically two characters totally acting out of character.

Yep!!! And speaking about cliches and reused tropes, those could equally be:
- Johnny having to deal with V's friends / J turning down River if he was your love interest
- J thinking about how no one ever sacrificed anything for him
- J thinking how Arasaka and the chip sort of "won" in this ending, which disgusts him
- J not being happy with his new body, avoiding mirrors blablabla
- J thinking what else he has to live for now that Arasaka's down (probably nothing much since even his friends couldn't stand him)
etc

The only thing I bought was J still talking to V and the memorial plate :) That newly introduced neighbour -- not really.

Btw, also liked V humming Samurai's songs while being a vegetable at Arasaka's hospital...
 
Yep!!! And speaking about cliches and reused tropes, those could equally be:
- Johnny having to deal with V's friends / J turning down River if he was your love interest
- J thinking about how no one ever sacrificed anything for him
- J thinking how Arasaka and the chip sort of "won" in this ending, which disgusts him
- J not being happy with his new body, avoiding mirrors blablabla
- J thinking what else he has to live for now that Arasaka's down (probably nothing much since even his friends couldn't stand him)
etc

The only thing I bought was J still talking to V and the memorial plate :) That newly introduced neighbour -- not really.

Btw, also liked V humming Samurai's songs while being a vegetable at Arasaka's hospital...
Oh. That "arasaka won" thing never came to my mind. Arasaka killed V and Johnny watched. Noice.
Having to see V's face every day would also be pretty "funny" I guess. OK. No mirrors. V's voice on the other hand.

In addition, my V is female. Johnny already told her that her hormones are a clusterfuck. He ain't seen nothing yet.

In addition. The DNA change from female to male - the whole DNA change thing. If V really gives her body to Johnny, he will end up like a cronenberg bodyhorror. If you only. Change the brains DNA, Johnny would have to take very serious medication.
 
In addition, my V is female. Johnny already told her that her hormones are a clusterfuck. He ain't seen nothing yet.

In addition. The DNA change from female to male - the whole DNA change thing. If V really gives her body to Johnny, he will end up like a cronenberg bodyhorror. If you only. Change the brains DNA, Johnny would have to take very serious medication.

Oh, female V ftw! ;)
Listening to Johnny's whining after a night with River was gold... Same with "V, don't lie, we both know size matters" in some Wakako's side mission, although that one might be a localization thing.

And the whole male/female combo can bring up so many different interpretations...
 
I assume in 2077 that male to female transition is like a 2 day operation at best. Johnny will be fine.

Mind you, I think the mission about the cheating spouse was originally going to be more clear that she was transgender (and you can have kids in the future) but they decided that might be a bridge too far in how much she was lying to her husband about.

And play into the "deceptive" trans stereotype that is bullshit.
 
Actually V wouldnt be a fake if you choose for him to carry on living and technically you wouldnt be Johnny either. Really the whole story is really weird but I will try my best to explain.

With soul killer the question is if V really is dead during the engram scene. Yeah Johnny dies when we see his memory but the set up is different. We can assume that hopping in the water does something different like maybe keeping him cool so the brain is fried. Idk but either way if he dies or is in some brief coma, V returning would just mean he gains his memories back since its his body or nothing overrid his mind so its a what ever thing.

Even if you go with Johnny
 
So, I'm late to the party, but... some thoughts.

V's initial, gut objective that occupies their mind is, obviously, 'I don't want to die'. But is that the limit of what V wants? Early on, we get the convo with Dex about a quiet life or a blaze of glory. We know what Dex chooses, and we know how it works out for him. We also, if we get to the right point with the ending, know what the other choice gets you, and ultimately, it's the same thing: dead.

Because in the end, that where every road leads. We all die. But who are we before that?

The Story

The story is what you make of it. If you just rush through the main chain, skipping time when it tells you 'wait for X to call', then yeah. It's incredibly weak, and there's little to no character growth. News flash: that sounds about right.

Taking that route is the equivalent of going to work every day, clocking in, doing the absolute minimum, clocking out on time, going home, and well... tuning out in front of the TV, or playing video games until it's time to go to bed so you can do it all again the next day. The story ends up weak and un-compelling because that's the Story of V that you chose to write.

Add in the side-quests—not all of them, necessarily, but the ones involving Johnny and the personal relationships you make over the game, like Claire, or your romantic interest (whichever one you have available), or even Jackie's funeral (if you sent him home to Mama Welles)—and that's where the personal growth comes in. The moments. Even moreso if you just explore the odds-and-ends within your own UI. Leaving messages on Jackie's phone as a way to hold on to him or as a way to say goodbye... that was a nice touch they put in. And while the choices you make in those side-missions don't necessarily change the dialog options you're offered at the end... they might change the options you pick.

Voilà! Character growth.

Agency

One of the big evils in cyberpunk (the genre, not just this game or even it's awesome predecessor from R.Talsorian) is a lack of agency. Everyone's basically stuck in place. Everyone. The wageslaves, the street trash, mercs, even the most powerful megacorp executives. And that's here. We see that. Even the Arasaka family, in the end, can't escape being locked in place. Saburo wants nothing more than the status quo. Hanaka sees no greater purpose than the dutiful execution of her pre-ordained role. Yori's whole story is the guy who tried to escape his family, but eventually gets dragged back in—potentially to the point of having his brain turned to goo in order to reconstitute dear ol' dad, or takes dad's place to become exactly what he didn't want to become. In the end, they're all helpless to change their lot in life.

That's the lesson here. That's the story—the real one—in Cyberpunk 2077. V starts off demanding 'what do I do, Vik?' and looking for people who can answer that question, tell them what to do about it. And it's completely possible to get through the whole story still asking that question. That's the question that leads to either letting Johnny and Rogue do it for you, or letting Hanaka Arasaka set the agenda.

And both of those cost you everything, in different ways. Instead, the 'right' answer is the one Vik's been telling you all along. It's the one Jackie chose: bet on yourself. Take matters into your own hands. You go, with the people you've developed relationships with, who trust you. The people who aren't there for the corp, or for Johnny. They're doing it for you, because everything you've done for them means you're family to them now.

And that gives you the 'happy' ending: V ends up with their romantic interest, riding off into the sunset. You get the boy/girl because you made the choice to take charge of your own fate.

But V Still Dies!

Yeah, even in the 'happy' ending, V's still got six months to live. And? Unless the game zips ahead to show you V and their partner growing old together, the ending is as happy and defined as any other 'riding into the sunset' ending. For all we know, after the end of The Princess Bride, Westley and Buttercup suffered PTSD for years, made one another's lives miserable, and finally died in a house fire after a mishap with an oil lamp.

Let's say V gets cured. Survives. They're still living in an unforgiving hellscape of a world where damn near everyone is sizing them up as potentially either a victim or a mark. Hell, they could get hit by a truck crossing the street. Or tagged by a stray bullet.

This is Night City, and 64 years after the original Cyberpunk, it has only gotten more lethal and more completely arbitrary in its lethality. Five minutes after any credits roll, V could be dead. In the 'happy' ending we get, V's going off with the Aldecaldos to make a new start. They've got the person they love with them. They're happy, and they're hopeful. And in a world like that, that's an incredible thing.

But that's Fake V! V's Soul Got Killed!

Ok, look... the human mind is a construct of the meat. It's an emergent property of the electrochemical state changes of the brain over time. So yeah. Did V die when they got hit by Soulkiller? Sure, why not? The person who wakes up... is still V. Technically a different V, maybe, but for all intents and purposes, that's V. Is it a little creepy if you think about it too much? Uhhhmmmm.... yeah! Yeah, it is. But in the words of every doctor who's been told 'doc, it hurts when I do this'... so don't do that!

Seriously, the only individual who can tell Fake V isn't V is V. And V's dead. Not even Fake V can tell they're not the original V. And let's face it, this is sci-fi. Do you guys get worked up about the Star Trek transporter? Because that rips you into component atoms, converts those to energy, transmits the energy, and then reconstitutes the atoms. It absolutely kills you, and makes a new 'you'.

As for the soul that everyone's worried about in and out of the game... quantify it. We've got no indication that anyone in the CP setting can actually demonstrate the existence of souls any better than we can do IRL. And every religious reference in basically the whole 'punk genre offers the reader/watcher/player/'tever a picture of religions as scams, making pawns of the desperate. So, within context... what soul? There's no way to show that Fake V has 'lost'... anything.

Wrapping It Up

So, yeah... all in all... you get out of the story what you put in, and the Nomad ending really is a happy one. Because it's the road you forged, and you've gotten a result that's a damned sight more than 99.999% of the world can claim, either in-game or RL: you're free, and you're happy, both at the same time.

Enjoy it.
 
So, I'm late to the party, but... some thoughts.

V's initial, gut objective that occupies their mind is, obviously, 'I don't want to die'. But is that the limit of what V wants? Early on, we get the convo with Dex about a quiet life or a blaze of glory. We know what Dex chooses, and we know how it works out for him. We also, if we get to the right point with the ending, know what the other choice gets you, and ultimately, it's the same thing: dead.

Because in the end, that where every road leads. We all die. But who are we before that?
Great, we all die. I know, you don't have to remind all of humanity how fleeting a life is. And neither do i want this message spoken directly to me, my avatar in the game by giving him a terminal illness. Want that message, fine please give me a proper tags and description "Carefull tragedy, lack of choices,but beatiful story driven experience". Not tags RPG, Action and description how to find a key to immortality. Besides it's another "look at this not that bad journey you had ! End is just a product of it !" I say that the view if the journey is meaningful depend solely if you found something that somehow enriched you. If you fail to find something you start to wonder why did i wasted my time on this?

The Story

The story is what you make of it. If you just rush through the main chain, skipping time when it tells you 'wait for X to call', then yeah. It's incredibly weak, and there's little to no character growth. News flash: that sounds about right.

Taking that route is the equivalent of going to work every day, clocking in, doing the absolute minimum, clocking out on time, going home, and well... tuning out in front of the TV, or playing video games until it's time to go to bed so you can do it all again the next day. The story ends up weak and un-compelling because that's the Story of V that you chose to write.

Add in the side-quests—not all of them, necessarily, but the ones involving Johnny and the personal relationships you make over the game, like Claire, or your romantic interest (whichever one you have available), or even Jackie's funeral (if you sent him home to Mama Welles)—and that's where the personal growth comes in. The moments. Even moreso if you just explore the odds-and-ends within your own UI. Leaving messages on Jackie's phone as a way to hold on to him or as a way to say goodbye... that was a nice touch they put in. And while the choices you make in those side-missions don't necessarily change the dialog options you're offered at the end... they might change the options you pick.

Voilà! Character growth.
We see character growth in two different things, you in side quest me in main story. It's in the main story you learn that V is dying and i searching for the cure. From prologe to Act 2 we see a change of perspective. Going with the flow, trying to get rich, maybe agree to jackie to leave a mark in the world or just try to live another day. From this to inevitable diagnosis : Death. From " I want to change my life" to "I want to live" and then what i see is growing fear of not only losing a life. But losing a identity,what's make you , you .
Agency

One of the big evils in cyberpunk (the genre, not just this game or even it's awesome predecessor from R.Talsorian) is a lack of agency. Everyone's basically stuck in place. Everyone. The wageslaves, the street trash, mercs, even the most powerful megacorp executives. And that's here. We see that. Even the Arasaka family, in the end, can't escape being locked in place. Saburo wants nothing more than the status quo. Hanaka sees no greater purpose than the dutiful execution of her pre-ordained role. Yori's whole story is the guy who tried to escape his family, but eventually gets dragged back in—potentially to the point of having his brain turned to goo in order to reconstitute dear ol' dad, or takes dad's place to become exactly what he didn't want to become. In the end, they're all helpless to change their lot in life.

That's the lesson here. That's the story—the real one—in Cyberpunk 2077. V starts off demanding 'what do I do, Vik?' and looking for people who can answer that question, tell them what to do about it. And it's completely possible to get through the whole story still asking that question. That's the question that leads to either letting Johnny and Rogue do it for you, or letting Hanaka Arasaka set the agenda.

And both of those cost you everything, in different ways. Instead, the 'right' answer is the one Vik's been telling you all along. It's the one Jackie chose: bet on yourself. Take matters into your own hands. You go, with the people you've developed relationships with, who trust you. The people who aren't there for the corp, or for Johnny. They're doing it for you, because everything you've done for them means you're family to them now.

And that gives you the 'happy' ending: V ends up with their romantic interest, riding off into the sunset. You get the boy/girl because you made the choice to take charge of your own fate.
So the lesson is there is no change, everyone and everything is locked in place. If so where is journey here? You can't journey without moving ;]. I played female V. If you say a copy is riding with LI of my V to a sunset and LI (Judy) need to watch a slow death of another very close person in the span of 6 months then we totally disagree what a happy ending is.


But V Still Dies!

Yeah, even in the 'happy' ending, V's still got six months to live. And? Unless the game zips ahead to show you V and their partner growing old together, the ending is as happy and defined as any other 'riding into the sunset' ending. For all we know, after the end of The Princess Bride, Westley and Buttercup suffered PTSD for years, made one another's lives miserable, and finally died in a house fire after a mishap with an oil lamp.

Let's say V gets cured. Survives. They're still living in an unforgiving hellscape of a world where damn near everyone is sizing them up as potentially either a victim or a mark. Hell, they could get hit by a truck crossing the street. Or tagged by a stray bullet.

This is Night City, and 64 years after the original Cyberpunk, it has only gotten more lethal and more completely arbitrary in its lethality. Five minutes after any credits roll, V could be dead. In the 'happy' ending we get, V's going off with the Aldecaldos to make a new start. They've got the person they love with them. They're happy, and they're hopeful. And in a world like that, that's an incredible thing.

But that's Fake V! V's Soul Got Killed!

Ok, look... the human mind is a construct of the meat. It's an emergent property of the electrochemical state changes of the brain over time. So yeah. Did V die when they got hit by Soulkiller? Sure, why not? The person who wakes up... is still V. Technically a different V, maybe, but for all intents and purposes, that's V. Is it a little creepy if you think about it too much? Uhhhmmmm.... yeah! Yeah, it is. But in the words of every doctor who's been told 'doc, it hurts when I do this'... so don't do that!

Seriously, the only individual who can tell Fake V isn't V is V. And V's dead. Not even Fake V can tell they're not the original V. And let's face it, this is sci-fi. Do you guys get worked up about the Star Trek transporter? Because that rips you into component atoms, converts those to energy, transmits the energy, and then reconstitutes the atoms. It absolutely kills you, and makes a new 'you'.

As for the soul that everyone's worried about in and out of the game... quantify it. We've got no indication that anyone in the CP setting can actually demonstrate the existence of souls any better than we can do IRL. And every religious reference in basically the whole 'punk genre offers the reader/watcher/player/'tever a picture of religions as scams, making pawns of the desperate. So, within context... what soul? There's no way to show that Fake V has 'lost'... anything.
Yep V is dead. I fail to see how can this be happy. Is V such a villain that only her death can bring happiness?
Besides i wouldn't mind it that much if copy have taken over if it could be acknowledged and the new V has some identity crysis or something similar. Then it would have been a very bittersweet one. But now a copy lives 6 months? What kind of BS is that? What you were fighting for if even your copy has to die?
To your argument about it's still old V. First that's not how the soulkiller works : remember that it is cyberpunk? dark,grimdark dirty etc? How can it be that in such a dark wold soulkiiler happily transfers all of you? It's distopian world that's not how it goes it cannot be happy( oh irony ,You want the soulkiller to be happy ? Wrong city wrong people ) , so it kills the oryginal, and makes copy. I didn't see this continuous existence. If it was shown differenly, like during transfer you can think in both worlds for example alt does some kind of simple test when question is asked in reality and you answer in cyberspace. Then I would gladly agree but we have what we have.

Another problem is the date of death. You live your life without knowing when you die. It can be tommorrow or in 50 years. And that changes everything. You can go and try to achieve things because death is not defined, is not looming on your shadow every day.

Wrapping It Up

So, yeah... all in all... you get out of the story what you put in, and the Nomad ending really is a happy one. Because it's the road you forged, and you've gotten a result that's a damned sight more than 99.999% of the world can claim, either in-game or RL: you're free, and you're happy, both at the same time.
Nope, V is dead, so not happy. Free? Hmm propably? And yes i put effort but the result is what 5% of this world can claim (according to a ncpd report) which is death.
Enjoy it.
I will. First fix the game, populate the world with activities, give in DLC closure or prepare for sequel with V and i will surely enjoy it. Propably only then :)

Funny thing, right know the most fun thing with cyberpunk is a discussion with other people. Something is here fundamentally wrong....
 
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And that gives you the 'happy' ending: V ends up with their romantic interest, riding off into the sunset. You get the boy/girl because you made the choice to take charge of your own fate.

Three assumptions in this:
- Getting the boy/girl (that you met 2 weeks ago) = acceptable 'happy' ending
- V romances Panam or Judy
- V wants to join the Aldecaldos and considers them family in just 2 weeks

If LIs and a specific interpretation of side content are required to have a somewhat positive interpretation of the 'best' ending, the game failed to give enough outcomes.

We see character growth in two different things, you in side quest me in main story. It's in the main story you learn that V is dying and i searching for the cure. From prologe to Act 2 we see a change of perspective. Going with the flow, trying to get rich, maybe agree to jackie to leave a mark in the world or just try to live another day. From this to inevitable diagnosis : Death. From " I want to change my life" to "I want to live" and then what i see is growing fear of not only losing a life. But losing a identity,what's make you , you .

Another problem is the date of death. You live your life without knowing when you die. It can be tommorrow or in 50 years. And that changes everything. You can go and try to achieve things because death is not defined, is not looming on your shadow every day.

I have a less grim take on SK, but 100% agree with this.
 
So the lesson is there is no change, everyone and everything is locked in place. If so where is journey here? You can't journey without moving ;]. I played female V. If you say a copy is riding with LI of my V to a sunset and LI (Judy) need to watch a slow death of another very close person in the span of 6 months then we totally disagree what a happy ending is.

I think the point attempting to be made is V was made to be insistent on asking how to solve their problem for most of the narrative. Instead they shouldn't have been asking. They should have been finding a way to take it. Depending on the ending you got this is exactly the transformation you'd see play out. "How can I survive? I'm dying. Oh noes. Fuck it, you get your wish Johnny, let's carpet bomb Arasaka.".

The inability to change the system is more a setting deal. Even there it could be argued changes were made. In my ending Arasaka was pretty much screwed (heard it on the TV, must be true). Not to mention the thousands of gangers, corpos, etc. with snapped necks sitting in trash bins all over NC :). The sheer amount of garbage I rescued the world from (literally, not figuratively). At a certain point it must have started leaving a mark.

Yep V is dead. I fail to see how can this be happy. Is V such a villain that only her death can bring happiness?
Besides i wouldn't mind it that much if copy have taken over if it could be acknowledged and the new V has some identity crysis or something similar. Then it would have been a very bittersweet one. But now a copy lives 6 months? What kind of BS is that? What you were fighting for if even your copy has to die?

Six months to live is not the same as dead. The 6 months is what Alt says. She could be lying. She could be mistaken. A new development could unfold or be discovered in 6 months offering a way out. Hell, most of the game was spent trying to get Johnny out of V's head to prevent being consumed by his personality construct. Clearly there is a conceivable way for a personality construct to be placed into another body via a biochip and have everything "work out".

To your argument about it's still old V. First that's not how the soulkiller works : remember that it is cyberpunk? dark,grimdark dirty etc? How can it be that in such a dark wold soulkiiler happily transfers all of you? It's distopian world that's not how it goes it cannot be happy( oh irony ,You want the soulkiller to be happy ? Wrong city wrong people ) , so it kills the oryginal, and makes copy. I didn't see this continuous existence. If it was shown differenly, like during transfer you can think in both worlds for example alt does some kind of simple test when question is asked in reality and you answer in cyberspace. Then I would gladly agree but we have what we have.

It's not about being happy. It's about perspective. Johnny was a construct all game and still thought he was Johnny. If the mind of V were transformed into an engram and placed into another body then V wouldn't know any different either. As far as they're concerned they are, in fact, V.

Nope, V is dead, so not happy. Free? Hmm propably? And yes i put effort but the result is what 25% of this world can claim (according to a ncpd report) which is death.

I didn't see it this way with the ending I got. For clarity, I gave Johnny control and, with the help of Rogue, fucked over Arasaka. It seemed fitting for a Streekid to hop at the chance to screw over a major corp (Hanako can shove it, for the record). In any case, Johnny took one for the team and I ended up with the 6 months to live ending. Followed by space adventures thanks to Mr. Blue Eyes.

As a minor off-topic tangent.... Seriously, who the fuck is this guy? I think he might know things. Did anyone else find it odd there is an email on a Peralez computer recommending V to Judy for the Heist? Given, you know, Blueboy Lugos was involved in the mind fuckery.

Now sure, V is "different" after this whole ordeal. How different is open to interpretation. V is still on the clock, so to speak. Dead? Ehh. My V wasn't dead. My V was on a collision course with another object in space, gun in hand, ready to trash bin some bad guys and collect space junk.

Yeah, the endings could have been handled a bit... better. Even this one. Case and point, Alt with her, "Whoops, you can't be saved.", at the tail end (they game of thronesed it). I still think it's unfair to say this ending definitively indicated V was getting another drink named after them in the Afterlife (let's see, shot in the head... that counts.... turned into a personality construct might count.... 7 of 9 lives to go... I knew I pet that cat exactly 9 times for a reason...).

Funny thing, right know the most fun thing with cyberpunk is a discussion with other people. Something is here fundamentally wrong....

Agreed. The worst part is I have zero desire to try again. The game doesn't have any replay value for me.
 
As a minor off-topic tangent.... Seriously, who the fuck is this guy? I think he might know things. Did anyone else find it odd there is an email on a Peralez computer recommending V to Judy for the Heist? Given, you know, Blueboy Lugos was involved in the mind fuckery.

Is there? What computer are you talking about?
Anyway, she is not referring V for the Heist job, but for the one that involves the braindance Peralez was able to retrieve from the NCPD.
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In the 'happy' ending we get, V's going off with the Aldecaldos to make a new start. They've got the person they love with them. They're happy, and they're hopeful. And in a world like that, that's an incredible thing.
Except that the only way to get this 'happy' ending is to pick very specific choices the game nudges you towards to. I romanced Kerry, my V is a street kid who has plenty of reasons to stay in Night City, so I'm locked out of a 'happy' ending because I don't want to run off into a desert or romance Panam. Night City is a terrible place to live in, I get that, but people make it work, find happiness while living in bad places. The game itself shows that but V for some strange reason can't.
 
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Is there? What computer are you talking about?
Anyway, she is not referring V for the Heist job, but for the one that involves the braindance Peralez was able to retrieve from the NCPD.
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Now it's funny how Judy refers to what V does as "preem-tier" work, "known quantity at Afterlife", and Rogue calls that "small time smash and grabs", "no one at Afterlife will work with you, that's why you're going solo" :shrug:

Hidden meaning: "It's consistent, Judy just can't know what the situation is at the Afterlife, it's intended bullshit. Of course Rogue would know more!"
 
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The Story

The story is what you make of it. If you just rush through the main chain, skipping time when it tells you 'wait for X to call', then yeah. It's incredibly weak, and there's little to no character growth. News flash: that sounds about right.

Taking that route is the equivalent of going to work every day, clocking in, doing the absolute minimum, clocking out on time, going home, and well... tuning out in front of the TV, or playing video games until it's time to go to bed so you can do it all again the next day. The story ends up weak and un-compelling because that's the Story of V that you chose to write.
Taking that route is the equivalent of taking the game seriously when it tells you that V is on a weeks long clock. Sinnerman was a fantastic side quest that I did because I knew time was an illusion, but that didn't quell the dissonance of thinking "I absolutely would not agree to ride around with this fuck for an entire day for some cash if I knew my life could be measured in the ~100's of hours."

And that gives you the 'happy' ending: V ends up with their romantic interest, riding off into the sunset. You get the boy/girl because you made the choice to take charge of your own fate.
There is no Aldecaldos ending where a male LI leaves NC with V.

But that's Fake V! V's Soul Got Killed!

Ok, look... the human mind is a construct of the meat. It's an emergent property of the electrochemical state changes of the brain over time. So yeah. Did V die when they got hit by Soulkiller? Sure, why not? The person who wakes up... is still V. Technically a different V, maybe, but for all intents and purposes, that's V. Is it a little creepy if you think about it too much? Uhhhmmmm.... yeah! Yeah, it is. But in the words of every doctor who's been told 'doc, it hurts when I do this'... so don't do that!

Seriously, the only individual who can tell Fake V isn't V is V. And V's dead. Not even Fake V can tell they're not the original V. And let's face it, this is sci-fi. Do you guys get worked up about the Star Trek transporter? Because that rips you into component atoms, converts those to energy, transmits the energy, and then reconstitutes the atoms. It absolutely kills you, and makes a new 'you'.
You're gonna write a screed about the endings that's this long and tell people they're dwelling too much something obviously huge about the endings? Absolute clown shoes. Soulkiller means my V, the one that actually physically went through everything and fought for her life, fails in her mission and dies unceremoniously in that pool in Mikoshi. That's the end of the story. Anything that happens after that is nothing.

I'm happy to accept sci-fi things like a Star Trek transponder if the fiction itself obviously takes it for granted. Soulkiller, before the ending, is set up as something you should take seriously. It's a shitty Chekhov's gun.
 
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Ontology is a subject that was maybe fine in the 700'


I would have loved for them to go fully Nietzsche with this game, though.
You gave us the passive nihilistic ending, now, where is our active one?
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Now it's funny how Judy refers to what V does as "preem-tier" work, "known quantity at Afterlife", and Rogue calls that "small time smash and grabs", "no one at Afterlife won't work with you, that's why you're going solo" :shrug:

Hidden meaning: "It's consistent, Judy just can't know what the situation is at the Afterlife, it's intended bullshit. Of course Rogue would know more!"

This kind of problem could have been easily avoidable by making that dialogue with Rogue available only at the beginning of the game, while having a low reputation.
 
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This kind of problem could have been easily avoidable by making that dialogue with Rogue available only at the beginning of the game, while having a low reputation.

If you ask her about it right after the heist when looking for Hellman it makes sense. Not afterwards though, especially not after she starts calling V about gigs herself.
 
Late to this thread. One of my biggest gripes is with the Secret Ending, depending on specific character choices.

For context, I played a Female V that romanced Judy and didn't mind the various narratives apart from a vast amount of missed potential from a gameplay perspective. I found most of the nihilistic endings fine, if only for the themes surrounding the genre and getting/failing to get what we were promised by certain deals and warnings, like the Arasaka ending.

However, I do have one big complaint, and that's Don't Fear The Reaper's ending not being altered to be more of a compromise of bittersweet-ness involving victory and loss, than its regular The Sun counterpart or adjacent endings. I'll preface by saying that the feelings I have about it might be different for people that played a male protagonist or romanced different people.

I spent 140+ hours on the game doing all the side content, managing the dialogue with Johnny as well as I can to unlock it, and in the end, saving everyone except for myself with the six month timer (an already known outcome). The way Judy reacts when you wake up, the intimate care and discussion about both your priorities and concluding that while you're on the "big mission" to save your life, she'll be leaving NC to explore and fulfill one of her original goals, felt perfectly in character. She even stays to see you off before getting ready to leave, on good terms.

And yet, in the credits there's the breakup scene that is regurgitated from the other endings about "becoming an asshole or being offed by one". It felt jarring, out of character for what was shown for all that Judy's gone through, and this is something that'd make sense to me during the other Sun ending. This secret end involves a lot of work and yet the payoff is not that rewarding beyond saving everyone you care about, unless you're a V that romanced Kerry or River.

I understand that all the endings involve some sort of price, even the "good" one involving the Aldecaldos, such as sacrificing all of your original goals & promises to those who passed, in exchange for a mature and happy life outside of NC. But for the Reaper ending, I feel like the biggest price of all was the use of Soulkiller on you and the fatal timeline. Yet, it almost feels like Soulkiller was a plot device meant for progressing the story more than an actual moral conundrum or food for thought in relation to the genre, and that to CDPR, each ending needed a "price" separate of that.

For a secret bonus ending that requires careful attention and work to get, and a one-time suicide run to complete, I feel entitled to something a bit more compromising in terms of personal narrative reward. It doesn't have to be completely happy! But I'd like for it to not feel as miserable as the rest. We save everyone, we complete our promise to people from the beginning, even though we miss out on revenge against certain characters, we separate from Johnny on good terms, we become someone with tons of resources to accomplish what we and others could want, and we get a final job with hopes for the future.

Including tiny details that feel like jarring slaps to the face, in that one, feels like an annoying oversight that was copy-pasted from a different end, or just that I wasted my time, beyond having NPCs who lived being able to message me in the credits still alive, when I could've handed the reigns to Johnny and blazed through the final mission and still come out with the same results. We don't even see Nibbles in the mansion during it, or keep access to the place. I wish it had been more rewarding, no matter what story choices you made or who you romanced.
 
Is there? What computer are you talking about?
Anyway, she is not referring V for the Heist job, but for the one that involves the braindance Peralez was able to retrieve from the NCPD.

Ah, I guess it doesn't mention the Heist. It's actually Judy sending the message too. Nevermind. I assumed it was referring to the Heist for some reason. I saw that and started going to tinfoil hat land. I thought it was Elizabeth telling Judy to contact V for the Heist. Evidentally not.... A good example why skimming messages isn't always a bright idea :).

I still think Mr Blue Eyes probably knows things well beyond the characters met during the story.

Except that the only way to get this 'happy' ending is to pick very specific choices the game nudges you towards to. I romanced Kerry, my V is a street kid who has plenty of reasons to stay in Night City, so I'm locked out of a 'happy' ending because I don't want to run off into a desert or romance Panam.

TW3 had the same problem. Your decisions influence the fate of Ciri. The way you were supposed to approach most of those decisions wasn't incredibly obvious. Not unless you know or intuit how you're supposed to approach them (hand hold Ciri vs support her independence). Particularly with dialogue at times going out in left field. In terms of the selection failing to match up with the result.

In any case, my V romanced both Judy and River. Somehow there were no consequences for this at all. Not that I could tell. As noted, I went with the, "Let's destroy Arasaka.", ending. The end result there was 6 months to live. With Judy deciding to bail for.... reasons. So I don't think running off with the Nomads was the only "good" ending. To me a bad ending would be Johnny getting V's body and V going poof.

You're gonna write a screed about the endings that's this long and tell people they're dwelling too much something obviously huge about the endings? Absolute clown shoes. Soulkiller means my V, the one that actually physically went through everything and fought for her life, fails in her mission and dies unceremoniously in that pool in Mikoshi. That's the end of the story. Anything that happens after that is nothing.

Well, the question is whether the term Soulkiller is being taken too literally. That question hinges on whether you believe copying a mind out of an organic body and slapping it into a digital form causes it to "lose" anything.

The other thing is, based on this logic, Johnny isn't Johnny. Johnny died. The Johnny the player engages with is a personality construct. And again, he was pretty convincing to me. Furthermore, from his perspective he was still Johnny.

If you look at this from the perspective of V, it's the same thing. Yeah, V knows they had their mind transformed into a personality construct. But at that point the only remaining V is this construct. Does it really matter to this construct if it has a "soul"? It's sentient and, provided it has a body, behaves as any real person would.

A different way to say it is looking at it from the perspective of yourself, as the player, is kind of meta-gamey. The perspective of the character is a different one. From the perspective of the character you're fighting to survive. I'd think if they went through this whole process and ended up as a construct, one which remained sentient, they would slap mission successful on it. Even if they weren't quite the same after the fact. And, yes, even if they were still on the clock with 6 months to live.

The main issue I had with it is it seemed like sub-par writing. The first time you meet Alt it felt implied there was no solution to the problem. At least, Alt didn't think there was one. Then you get there and, provided you reached the right ending, it's like, "We're gonna rebuild you.". At the end of that it's like, "Oh, sorry, I miscalculated and you're still fucked.". Alt wouldn't make this mistake out of the blue.

Again, they game of thronesed it. They got there to the end and it's like, let's wrap this up.

Lastly, the other angle is.... V sort of already knew how to make the process work properly. The entire premise was to prevent Johnny from taking over. I don't get how this was swept under the rug. Sure, V couldn't be placed back into their own body without gaining the 6 month expiration date. What was to stop them from taking another in the same way Johnny had the potential to consume V's body?
 
Well, the question is whether the term Soulkiller is being taken too literally. That question hinges on whether you believe copying a mind out of an organic body and slapping it into a digital form causes it to "lose" anything.
Alt explicitly tells says "your consciousness, your neural engrams, will be recorded as data. Everything else will cease to exist." You very clearly lose something from this digitization process. My point is that it seems pretty clear that Soulkiller has always only ever made copies and killed the original.

The other thing is, based on this logic, Johnny isn't Johnny. Johnny died. The Johnny the player engages with is a personality construct. And again, he was pretty convincing to me. Furthermore, from his perspective he was still Johnny.
Right, the engram Johnny isn't the same Johnny Silverhand that died in that chair in that memory we saw. Chip Johnny is a copy of Johnny's everything, so of course he's going to think he's Johnny and he's going to act like Johnny. He still isn't, though, not on a fundamental level.

If you look at this from the perspective of V, it's the same thing. Yeah, V knows they had their mind transformed into a personality construct. But at that point the only remaining V is this construct. Does it really matter to this construct if it has a "soul"? It's sentient and, provided it has a body, behaves as any real person would.
Ironically, V's perspective is actually the only one where it isn't the same thing at all. If it just makes a copy and kills the original, there is no "from V's perspective", there's the character you've been playing the whole game dead in the water and some new consciousness that thinks its V.

A different way to say it is looking at it from the perspective of yourself, as the player, is kind of meta-gamey. The perspective of the character is a different one. From the perspective of the character you're fighting to survive. I'd think if they went through this whole process and ended up as a construct, one which remained sentient, they would slap mission successful on it. Even if they weren't quite the same after the fact. And, yes, even if they were still on the clock with 6 months to live.
This is ostensibly an RPG. My perspective and the characters perspective should be nearly aligned.
 
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