Suggestion for Coin Flip Replacement

[Rawls]

Suggestion for Coin Flip Replacement

So I feel like the biggest issue with the game's structural balance currently is the coin flip. I was trying to think of a mechanic that could replace it meeting four criteria:

1. Active player experience where some knowledge and tactics can lead to an advantage;
2. No more that 15 seconds;
3. Relatively even opportunity of going first;
4. Can be smoothly incorporated into the main game.

So this is what I came up with. The game as currently designed is Mulligan, then coin flip, then game. This replaces the coin flip with a guessing game derived from the mulligan.

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Each player would be required to mulligan at least one card. Each card that is mulligan-ed (up to six) is placed face down over the middle of the board from as the mulligan process happens. The players are asked to each select one card. When the first card is selected by a player, it is turned face up for both to see and the other player can no longer select it. The other player selects a different card and it is turned up for both players to see. The order of who goes first is determined like this:

1. Whomever selected the card that has the highest color goes last (Gold beats Silver beats Bronze);
2. If it is a tie (because it will frequently be all bronze cards), whomever selected the highest value card goes last (special cards count as 0 value);
3. If it is still a tie (say two bronze special cards), then whomever selected first goes last.

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I think this little game would accomplish all of the goals above. It's an active player experience that incentivizes speed and knowledge of the game. It also has some risk because if you pay attention, you may know where your cards are to know where some value you be. However, by selecting one of your cards your opponent will see it. Also, by selecting an opponent card, you can get a hint as to what they are playing. The process could be done very quickly during the mulligan and immediately after. Maybe even put a 10 or 15 second timer on it. There is the opportunity for each player to go first, and it fits right into the course of the rest of the game, making for smooth segues from mulligan, to turn selection, to game.

The rest of the game would continue as before. Whoever wins round 1 goes first in round 2. If there is a round 3, the winner of round 2 goes first there.

That was the best could come up with around midnight last night. Thoughts? Does that make sense?

 

[4RM3D]

While this is certainly a creative solution. The reason why it's not ideal is because the mulligan becomes deck dependent. Let's take an extreme example, someone running Olaf with Royal Decree. That player can just select Olaf as a guarantee to "win" the coin flip. The opposite is also true, when players are running a deck with gold specials or low(er) strength units. There might be other quirks with your suggestion, but the aforementioned one is the most important.

 

[Rawls]

That player can just select Olaf as a guarantee to "win" the coin flip.

Yes but then the other player knows you have Olaf (and likely Royal Decree as well since you Mulligan-ed Olaf). Assuming you went straight there and picked it. The other player would know you were going to win, and would pick another of your cards. Now two of your cards are known to the opponent. So there is a downside to that strategy. If you risk picking an opponents card, at the very least you will learn something about their deck. Plus the other player may pick your Olaf first, get to go last and know what you have. Then you're really screwed.

EDIT: Each player has up to six cards to pick at first, consisting of at least one and up to three of both their cards and the opponents. I think it adds another level of strategy to the mulligan process and a more active "who goes first" process.

EDIT AGAIN: And if you know you've milled a bunch of special cards ... you know you want to pick one of the other players cards.

 

[4RM3D]

:huh:

Now, I am confused. I'll re-read it tomorrow when I am less tired.

 

[Kagemusha666]

My idea is a little bit different: deck sizes to play remain the same (25 to 40 cards) but we will get a little 3 cards sideboard too (bronze cards of course). Before the match each player has to choose 3 cards of his deck (including the sideboard)to make a "bet". If a player wins he can choose to play first or pass to let his opponent start. The stake cards in the "pot" (dont worry nobody looses anything - the cards are only to decide who will start first) are counting as follows : gold 3, silver 2 and bronze 1. If its a tie then unit cards count more than other cards (if that's a tie too added power will decide the outcome). But dont get me wrong : the cards are out of the game. So if you dont want to start first you have to lose maybe a silver or gold card.

on the plus side
- i can change my deck a little before a match to counter a faction i would struggle a lot.

 

[Rawls]

Now, I am confused. I'll re-read it tomorrow when I am less tired.

Let me try again.

During the mulligan, the cards that are mulligan-ed are placed over the game board under the mulligan screen. Each player must mulligan at least one card and can do up to three. That means that there will be between two and six cards on the "who goes first" board, at least 1 from each player.

The cards would be placed face down from left to right on the board in the order they are mulliganed. ie -->

Player 2 Card 1 --- Player 2 Card 2 --- Player 1 Card 1 --- Player 2 Card 3 --- Player 1 Card 2 --- Player 1 Card 3
-------[ ]----------------[ ] ----------------[ ]----------------- [ ]----------------- [ ]--------------- [ ]--------

Once both players have mulligan-ed all their cards. A timer counts down 3 - 2 - 1 and each has the opportunity to select 1 card. However once a card is selected by one of the players it is turned face up for both to see. This means that when the first player to pick a card selects it, the other player cannot select that card. That makes it so there is an element of speed to the selection. The second player must pick from a different card from those that remain and then it would be turned face up for both players to see. Once two cards are face up, they determine who goes last in this priority:

1. Whomever selected the card that has the highest color goes last (Gold beats Silver beats Bronze);
2. If it is a tie (because it will frequently be all bronze cards), whomever selected the highest value card goes last (special cards count as 0 value);
3. If it is still a tie (say two bronze special cards), then whomever selected first goes last.

Once the winning card is determined, all of the mulliganed cards are returned to their respective decks and the game proceeds.

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So the whose goes first process would:

(1) be quick - the game incentivizes speed both in the tie breaker and in getting excluded from selecting a certain card if you don't click it first. I think a 10 second timer would help too. If a player doesn't select a card, then a random one of their cards will be overturned. If neither player selects within the 10 seconds, then a random of each would be overturned.
(2) would be active instead of passive - it would add another layer of strategy to mulligans involving the balance of wanting to go last, with not wanting to reveal certain cards along with the regular considerations that go into it now.
(3) Since both players have the same cards to pick from to start, it's by definition an equitable opportunity of going last. While you ought to know where your cards are, and that could lead to an advantage in some circumstances, the other play may be able to see your b-lining for a card and pick it first. The speed component is somewhat of an equalizer. Also, this could make for some interesting bluff games during the 3-2-1 countdown as each player can see where the other is heading.
(4) It would fit smoothly into the game serving as a segue from mulligan to selection of who goes first to the game itself.

 

[Suvsz]

My biggest problem would be with this, that it makes mulligan obligatory, whereas, in a good amount of my games I don't mulligen a single card in the first turn, because I have a "perfect" starting hand. Such way to decide could easily punish me twice or even three times, by giving up a good starting hand, revealing 1 or 2 of my cards to my opponent, and possibly still starting first. It might be an extrem case, yet it is possible. Than I rather go with the coin flip. An other downside of it -which would be with any speed-related decision- that not everyone has the same speed of internet connection. While your game reacts slower than your opponents might not couse much of a problem during game, in a pregame like this a "small lagg" could make sure you are always the second to choose.
The concept of the idea is not bad, however, in this form it is not good either.

 

[Rawls]

My biggest problem would be with this, that it makes mulligan obligatory, whereas, in a good amount of my games I don't mulligen a single card in the first turn, because I have a "perfect" starting hand. Such way to decide could easily punish me twice or even three times, by giving up a good starting hand, revealing 1 or 2 of my cards to my opponent, and possibly still starting first. It might be an extrem case, yet it is possible. Than I rather go with the coin flip. An other downside of it -which would be with any speed-related decision- that not everyone has the same speed of internet connection. While your game reacts slower than your opponents might not couse much of a problem during game, in a pregame like this a "small lagg" could make sure you are always the second to choose. The concept of the idea is not bad, however, in this form it is not good either.

I agree both of those are down sides of the design (especially the lag issue IMO). The 1 card mandatory mulligan is an issue ... but I think it's necessary for the idea to work. I almost always mulligan at least one so it's not huge for me personally ... but I know there are times a person would be put out having to mulligan when they didn't want to.

The connection thing is the biggest flaw I saw in the design when I came up with it.