I'm really lost as to how anyone can consider Tibor of all cards to be "overpowered" in a scenario where you ran through (generally) twice as many cards as the other player did. In any which way, even if you were "milled". The card is designed to make you draw a card as consolation for him gaining 15 str. So essentially, his 15 str buff is equal to one draw in basic terms. If that last draw wasn't enough to compete with it, it's just as bad as "not drawing something". Literally don't understand the complaint here lol
Chaob_N7;n7902720 said:
calling such use of Cahir an exploit explains your misunderstanding of mechanics then because its not an exploit either
the deck which you lost against is a product of its time: it counters small decks that thin themselves a lot, so basically every single deck in this game, if you dont want to lose against it then make a 40 card deck or something
also i dont understand why people call everything an exploit on gwent forums, is this some sort of streamer-promoted catchword?
Actually im amazed how many ppl calling things like tibor with 0 cards in deck as exploit while last patch ( before nilfgard came out ) using avallach vs ciri dash ST with 0 cards left every single game to get 2 cards and give your opponent 6 strenght only without extra card was common tactic at the highest lvl and i didn't see single thread on forum about that.
I'm not saying avallach thing was exploit it's just funny to me that ppl complaining about things like that while they had this kind of "exploits" since 2 - 3 months.
I'm not saying avallach thing was exploit it's just funny to me that ppl complaining about things like that while they had this kind of "exploits" since 2 - 3 months.
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I don't see how it is their fault that you over thinned your deck. They can't possibly make you discard more than around 5 cards so the rest was your own doing. Plus NG is in such a bad spot I'm glad they have some powerful plays even if it will only work out once in a blue moon.
el_Bosco;n8443810 said:
When players find out new ways to use cards in certain situations then that's part of the game. Is using Milva + Roach an exploit also? No. You are just trying to take advantage of what the defined rules of the game allow. And there is no clear line you can draw between when it's a (combo) trick or when it's an exploit. That's why the discussion is moot. If a card has unintended side effects then that's up to CDPR to decide whether or not it should be allowed or otherwise fixed.
A good example of an exploit is desyncing your game in order to kick the opponent out, giving you an unfair victory. Now, that's a real exploit.
4RM3D;n8444010 said:
Just think back to pre-patch Cahir or all the other exploits that got patched out because of their frequent abuse. This one is infrequent but when it happens one person gets a 22 gold and the other gets nothing even when the card stipulated a draw to balance the value. Therefore it is a powerful exploit.
Chaob_N7;n7894210 said:
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Chaob_N7;n8444790 said:
Did I not just mention that it's moot to discuss whether or not it's an exploit, also because you cannot draw a clear line between tricks and exploits? On top of that there is no singular definition for the word 'exploit'. You cannot hide behind one usage while ignoring the other. So just stop it.
The only thing that matters is whether or not Tibor should be changed. Here, I can give the same answer as I have given for Caretaker... Situations where you can use this tactic are very limited and you cannot consistently (ab)use it. So the impact is pretty small. However, for consistency sake, the card should be changed (albeit with a low priority).
I'm totally with headbash guy on this one- you're hiding behind a semantical argument. Who cares if it's an exploit or trick or a psychological mindblow or the Hand of God... the only thing that matters is if the card is balanced, i.e., as 4RM3D says, if the card needs to be changed. So let's examine the card.
It's got a woeful floor (7 Gold power), a decent average value (22 Gold but -1 CA and 1 Bronze Card value), while having an excellent ceiling of 22 uncountered power. On the other hand, it's not a wholly unawkward card to play, since CA is most important in R2, and has severely diminished value in R3. Thus, it's best played in R3, very meh in R2 unless you're trying to 2-0, and fairly meh to play in R1 because the Bronze likely gives your opponent better options (unlike when you're very shorthanded).
If you're getting yourself into a situation where he gets to play his 22 Tibor for free you've probably misplayed or applied insufficient pressure to minimise the effect of his Tibor, unless he literally topdecks it or gains access to it in R3, where Tibor truly excels. And it's not like the Mill archetype (where decks actually employ Tibor for a free 22 power) is not predictable at all, and doesn't allow for counterplay.
Case in point, I had a game last week where I was playing against Mill as ST with resilience, and I drew nothing going into R3, only holding a dead D-Bomb. He had 2 cards against mine. I still had access to ST passive, so I chose to go first (just to show my opponent I knew what I was doing, and instantly passed with 22 power on board. He had yet to play Cahir and Tibor, so the pass completely limits his options and what he planned to do, and he forfeited on the spot.
Predictability allows for counterplay, and these cards have an inbuilt way to counter them.
It's got a woeful floor (7 Gold power), a decent average value (22 Gold but -1 CA and 1 Bronze Card value), while having an excellent ceiling of 22 uncountered power. On the other hand, it's not a wholly unawkward card to play, since CA is most important in R2, and has severely diminished value in R3. Thus, it's best played in R3, very meh in R2 unless you're trying to 2-0, and fairly meh to play in R1 because the Bronze likely gives your opponent better options (unlike when you're very shorthanded).
If you're getting yourself into a situation where he gets to play his 22 Tibor for free you've probably misplayed or applied insufficient pressure to minimise the effect of his Tibor, unless he literally topdecks it or gains access to it in R3, where Tibor truly excels. And it's not like the Mill archetype (where decks actually employ Tibor for a free 22 power) is not predictable at all, and doesn't allow for counterplay.
Case in point, I had a game last week where I was playing against Mill as ST with resilience, and I drew nothing going into R3, only holding a dead D-Bomb. He had 2 cards against mine. I still had access to ST passive, so I chose to go first (just to show my opponent I knew what I was doing, and instantly passed with 22 power on board. He had yet to play Cahir and Tibor, so the pass completely limits his options and what he planned to do, and he forfeited on the spot.
Predictability allows for counterplay, and these cards have an inbuilt way to counter them.
But my point is that the deck archetype is completely and utterly predictable so it's easily countered. I mean, Tibor used to be worse, and the Mill Archetype excels (and the entire gameplan) is to win R3 after forcing his opponent to have 0 decks in hand, then dropping as many free cards like Cahir and Tibor. It doesn't excel at winning any particular round except of Round 3, and that's assuming that the gameplan has gone according to plan early on, and that the opponent isn't using resilience that can set up an early pass against it.
The point is that the particular deck is just fine. It's not even particularly strong or OP and has strong plays against it, and is particularly vulnerable to getting 2-0'd so can be forced to use Tibor in R2 rather than R3, where it is best.
Sidenote: dunno, just saw it and responded. Does that mean you don't think this is the case anymore though?
The point is that the particular deck is just fine. It's not even particularly strong or OP and has strong plays against it, and is particularly vulnerable to getting 2-0'd so can be forced to use Tibor in R2 rather than R3, where it is best.
Sidenote: dunno, just saw it and responded. Does that mean you don't think this is the case anymore though?
Codexhel;n8446650 said:
Another note related to this: almost all other factions have mechanics which make them stronger in rounds 2, 3, or both. Monsters retain cards from the previous rounds, Scoiatel gains power for ambushes played, and Skellige straight up gains power each round. The only factions not included is NR, and of course they gain power through gold cards (and often times create these gold cards to take advantage) throughout the game.
The Tibor mechanic seems fine to me. Typically if I win round 1 and am even or up in cards, I'll play this card to force the opponent to take the round but put himself at a card advantage. Otherwise, as stated, its just a lot of power for the opportunity for the opponent to draw. In most cases this is worth the trade, and while it might seem overpowered, keep in mind its only one of four gold cards in my deck. As to the intentional deck thinning and using this as some sort of pocket strategy, its probably something you'll have to keep in mind and watch the enemy NG's strategy and gold cards *just in case* and not set yourself up for it. Keeping track of the number of gold cards and relative power they might gain from them is a strategy all players of all factions should employ. To counter it, let a round go early and retain some cards in your deck, or some other strategy to not leave your deck empty. The fact of the matter is this is a pocket strategy that has a very low success rate, so just plan for it.
TIbor Deploy
Why it says "Clash: Boost self by 15, then your opponent Draws a Revealed Bronze card" and not the other way around "Clash: Your opponent Draws a Revealed Bronze card, then Boost self by 15".
Everytime when Tibor is played as last card on 3rd round I draw nothing, because i don't have any Bronze card left in my deck, so basically free 25 value Gold card for opponent. Please consider fixing his deploy ability.
Why it says "Clash: Boost self by 15, then your opponent Draws a Revealed Bronze card" and not the other way around "Clash: Your opponent Draws a Revealed Bronze card, then Boost self by 15".
Everytime when Tibor is played as last card on 3rd round I draw nothing, because i don't have any Bronze card left in my deck, so basically free 25 value Gold card for opponent. Please consider fixing his deploy ability.
Such OP shit like Tibor shall be deleted from the game.
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Black_legion that doesnt help fixing him.
i don't get how switching the order of his effects would fix this. Also you can very well play around this. Passing earlier to get card advantage in round 3 can win you the game with the right cards
i don't get how switching the order of his effects would fix this. Also you can very well play around this. Passing earlier to get card advantage in round 3 can win you the game with the right cards
Firekangaroo;n8766940 said:
There is a some cards in Gwent which have Deploy "Something good for your opponent, then something good for you", so if nothing good happens for opponent, then nothing good will happen to you. I just got a situation where i was winning 3rd round by 18 points margin. I played all my cards in my hand and got 1 silver in my deck. Opponent uses Tibor - gets +25 and I get nothing. If Tibor's deploy would be as I suggested, then I would've won that game because he would put 10 value Tibor on board and I would still have +8 margin.