The problem with Skellige

[DRK3]

Also Rank 2. In my deck I don't have Renew, so I can only play Blue Stripes Commandos 2 rounds. In my first iteration of the deck, instead of Renew I had Muzzle, which I kicked out in favour of Heatwave.

Renew feels all-in, especially if you don't draw the rest of the combo consistently.

People that complain on how consistent the game has become with Oneiromancy would be amazed to discover how often I don't draw the card.

Not in round 1,

not in round 2,


not even in round 3.

If you're all-in commandos, you probably need both Oneiromancy and AA (and also Natalis). You only need Renew on R3, since you can tutor Pavetta with AA on R2.

And it offers a consistency and adaptability that this deck never had, so you dont lose to bricks as often as before, with blue stripes.

 

[Calabrin]

Just played against this OP deck. I lost despite the following circumstances:

-Invocation on Harald as soon as he was played
-Poisoned and killed 2 units on final turn, wiping 11 power from the board, while adding 8 from 2x Fangs
-Killed Herkja as soon as she was played (she was rezzed with Second Wind)
-Double played Usurper Emperor using Tactical Retreat
-Opponent did not have any Greatswords or Dagur on the table

It is ridiculous, IMO, that you can shut down this deck to the extent that I did here and they still come away with a win.

 

[uber_croupier]

So what do you guys suggest? How would you do fix this?

 

[Wobbrrs]

Just played my NR Uprising against a SKSW at about 2450 fMMR
- I was on red coin
- Won on even in round 1 using only 2 gold (John Natalis and Heatwave, along with 2x echo cards)
- Other guy used 4 golds in round 1, Tyrggvi, Gigascorp, Donar, and Hemdall
- Got him to use both Stunning Blow on random 4 provision cards and was able to get my Frigates going
- Heatwave banished Hemdall to avoid wide punish on my Frigate in round 3
- Double last say for round 3
- His Harald bricked as there was no bronze warrior in Graveyard, as he played all removal and gold cards in round 1, and the blacksmith in round 2 dry pass
- Had access to all my Golds
- Still lost round 3 by 3 points

Had good coinflip, pretty much perfect draw, an opponent that wasn't playing optimal, and can still lose with double last say in round 3 is just a joke.

 

[Breli]

So what do you guys suggest? How would you do fix this?

Well, I wrote it earlier in this thread: you can only fix something that is broken. Skellige is not. It is just "great by design". What do I mean with that? The strength is not founded in individual cards or leader abilities. It is based on a superiority in almost all key aspects of the game IMHO:

• Control: SK has by far the best control. Anyone remember the time when ST was the control faction? Look at the typical damage output in comparison now. Consequently, SK can efficiently and reliably shut down almost all decks before they can establish a serious threat. Only NG/Imperial Formation and NR/Uprising have some chance to counter that due to leader/engine protection abilities. These are some of most prominent picks on the ladder now. Coincidence?
• Thinning/tutoring and flexibility: SK has by far the best thinning/tutoring options. They very rarely miss key cards. In combination with discard options this leads to almost 100% consistency. Blood Eagle even brought this to a whole new level. This creates a level of flexibility that you simply don't have somewhere else. You always have an answer to whatever the opponent plays.
• Carry-over: Crow-mother, Lippy/Cerys, Jutta and all this resurrecting with so many cards gives SK IMHO the best carry-over play in the entire game. This outclasses even MO with Ozzrel and Ghouls. In comparison: each time handbuff for ST is discussed it is pointed out how strong handbuff/carry-over is supposed to be. And there we are talking about laughable two points of carry-over at the expense of an abysmal point play in one prior round (e.g. Dwarven Agitator anyone?). Compare that to crow-mother or even resurrecting a Hemdall.
• Power-plays/Point spams: Any combination of GS/Dagur and Boar/Morkvarg/weather provides non-interactable power plays for huge point swings. Additionally, there is the one-turn-scenario play. There is no counter play for any of that. You have to be prepared that your SK opponent can always create 30+ power swings if required. In combination with resurrection even multiple times in a game.
• Engines: Boats, Berserkers and Blacksmith are arguably one of the best and most reliable engines in the game. Only Larva and Frigate can keep up with these, I think.
• Self-wound that doesn't wound: The self-wound cards are balanced around the idea that you have a negative effect on your side that counterbalances the damage/effect for the opponent. However, that never happens. There are so many ways to absorb that damage (veil) or even get an additional positive effect out of it (e.g. the bear freaks) that these cards consistently outperform similarly priced bronzes.

I am sure there are even more aspects to it. But all of this in combination makes an extraordinarily strong package that is difficult to balance. A few provision changes will not make a real difference here. If one card is nerfed too hard (remember Hjalmar?) it is simply replaced by something else. There are plenty of strong cards that rarely see play now.

It is not about a few broken cards that could be fixed, I think. SK is just great by design.

 

[uber_croupier]

So let's talk about those too strong cards. I hope I get card names right(I'm running polish version, so I am translating polish names)

Drummond Bersker 5p - 3 pings and 6 body(combines with GS, Heymeay Defender) and oh boy if you buff it with Adrenaline, Pact or even Mantlet, his value grows to hellish levels. Surely the best 5p card atm.

Harald 11p - he is so cheap I can include him to non devotion deck and he will still produce insane amount of value - I actually won games with him and neutrals in my deck on 1st ranks. He should be nefred to at least 14p cost. He will definitely be played anyway. When expansion came in and I saw him, I was shocked how strong that card is.

Blood Eagle 10p - is basically an Oneiro with 2 dmg ping, still cheaper by 2 for some reason. I think this should cost at least 12p. Let's be honest, with all SK tools(boats, berserkers, bleeds), trigerring Deathblow is almost always guaranteed.

I think these 3 cards are responsible for current chaos in the meta.

 

[SirLora]

I wish I could choose too go back too rank 20. so that i can play fun decks and actually have a chance to win. Game is not fun anymore. Why do Skellige get all advantages? Why do they nerf for example trebuchet so that it can only hit the back row, while the Skellige boat can hit every row, has 4 points + 1 armor, trebuchet only have 4 points and they have the same provision cost? And as soon as armor became a problem for Skellige, lets just have the leader and some cards ignore armor and deal more damage too armor cards..
And then give them a boat that damage all damaged units, a bunch of engines that damage and profit from damage, some efficient removal cards, and Skellige should be good too go Im tired of this, and barely play anymore. Its sad, because i used too love the game.

 

[uber_croupier]

I think it's wrong to compare Trebuchet to Drakkar - for quite many reasons.

But I agree Drakkar should be 3 power + 1 armour.

Hopefully they read this forum and will quickly respond to our calls. When I hear SK music when match begins I'm like *SIGHHHHHH* cause I'm quite tired to gamble with obviously OP deck.

 

[Guest 4404014]

No use listing which SK cards are op. THEY ARE ALL OP, people! Every single addition to SK is overpowered. Even War of Clans which would be utter crap if it wasn't for the fact that 4p warriors already have 6p value.

 

[uber_croupier]

But problems with SK arose after the update. And I believe I have listed correct reasons of why, in my previous posts

 

[Guest 4404014]

Im tired of this, and barely play anymore. Its sad, because i used too love the game.

Many ppl feel like that. And I'm guessing you have no mats to make a SK deck of your own, do you? At this point, CDPR should write everyone an apology letter like this,

"Dear Player,
We have noticed you had spent all your saved mats on Symbiosis. Here are 8000 scraps for the SK deck, should you wish to continue playing the ladder.
All apologies, CDPR."

 

[InkognitoXI]

But problems with SK arose after the update. And I believe I have listed correct reasons of why, in my previous posts

Agreed, the above suggestions to unproblematic meh cards like Drakkar are just an absurdity.
It should be clear that SK suddenly rose from Tier 2 to 0.5, that is purely the result of new cards and in this case the very powerful Warrior archtype, which breaks Greatsword and turns it into being horrendously broken.

 

[SirLora]

Many ppl feel like that. And I'm guessing you have no mats to make a SK deck of your own, do you? At this point, CDPR should write everyone an apology letter like this,

"Dear Player,
We have noticed you had spent all your saved mats on Symbiosis. Here are 8000 scraps for the SK deck, should you wish to continue playing the ladder.
All apologies, CDPR."

I got all the cards i could ask for, and could easily make my own SK deck. I just dont want to. Currently sitting on 20K scraps. So I should be fine. I also dont want an apology, I love CDPR, I just want them too balance the game better. And yes i could just play SK, but I dont wanna earn my ranks that way.

 

[irrrregular]

The game came to a point that you only beat this stupid new Skellige cards if you have perfect hands and play either NR or NG, even the opponent playing other leader abilities apart from Second Wind, even if they play badly or have 1 card less in round three they still win most of the times.

I play Scoia'Tael and Syndicate mainly, it is ~ 10% winrate against Skellige.
Rank 2.

 

[uber_croupier]

How many issues we have to list to help devs fix the game? How long we're going to be ignored? It really looks like everyone is starting to abuse SK cause it's just OP and devs simply ignore it.

I've been loosing most of my games against SK as well, even with two card advatange.

 

[bojerbela]

How many issues we have to list to help devs fix the game? How long we're going to be ignored? It really looks like everyone is starting to abuse SK cause it's just OP and devs simply ignore it.

I've been loosing most of my games against SK as well, even with two card advatange.

A hotfix is not enough. We need a patch. And the patch comes with the new season in August. The devs don't ignore us, they need time to fix things. We have to wait.

 

[uber_croupier]

3 weeks to nerf 3 or 4 cards? Really?

 

[bojerbela]

3 weeks to nerf 3 or 4 cards? Really?

I think, it is more complicated. They must gather data to see what to nerf. Look at the hotfix: the Warrior archetype is still OP but with the SW nerf they nearly killed Gedyneith-Druid archetype. I don't want to nerf Warrior archetype in to the ground...look at Harmony. There are ongoing events...it is not healthy to make significant changes when "tournaments" are going on. And we have only 9 days from this season...there is no reason to make a patch so close to the end of the season. And if they rush and "overnerf" Skellige then come the complaints about Nifgaard beeing OP. So I think it is not so easy as you think IMO.

 

[uber_croupier]

I completely understand your point. But SK got overpowered after new cards were introduced. And a great indicator for that is a severe Second Wind nerf which changed nothing.

IMO it would be better if they increased the cost of these new, strong cards like Harald or Bloody Eagle at least by 1 and see how this impacts those decks. Surely this would decrese SKs WR average. Instead they will patch something they haven't tested to the extent that community could.

And IMO nerfing something at the end of the season is the best time. If this crappy meta will remain in new season, everyone will simply abuse SK cause it will be the best way to rank up.

Oh what a fun game that will be...

 

[Madlax1992]

I don't think it is enough to nerf Skellige and then say 'problem solved!'.

There are 3 major factions that are currently underplayed because they have overall weak card options. Syndicate, Monsters, ST should get a buff, particularly the later. SK is over the top, yes, to the point that it is almost unbeatable. But NG and NK are not that far behind either.

So bottom line is, make SK more reasonable, not OP like it is now and buff the less used factions. I like playing as Syndicate and ST mostly and it kinda pains me that you have little winning chances with these 2 factions in ranked games. ST in particular did not benefit much from the last update. The new cards for these faction, with few exceptions, are for the most part useless, or simply cannot hold a candle against the major, powerful factions.