Yes, but not all the animations that Geralt does are present for femlaes, or armor models. But like I said adapting animation/models (especially when other are already present) Doesn't take that long to do.
Yes, but not all the animations that Geralt does are present for femlaes, or armor models. But like I said adapting animation/models (especially when other are already present) Doesn't take that long to do.
@Phalzyr True, but adding just certain animations is much easier than creating them all 
Also, modders can use Geralt's skeleton on a female body. It won't be perfect, but it would work sufficiently I believe. Of course armors have to be redone, nothing can be done about that. But VOs, in a game like this (It's not Skyrim mind you, with so little voice acting), it would create a HUGE cost (If you consider other languages, an insane amount of cost even). And all in all, the creator of the game would be creating costly assets that they won't use, just because of the possibility that some modders will use them... As a person who modded amateurly a little, and who follows modders for nearly all the games he loves, I can say that that's definitely not how modding works. Not at all... The best thing the devs can (and hopefully will) do is giving a really flexible and easy to use modding tool. All else is on the modders. That's the spirit of modding You need to give your all to it, because it comes from passion.
Edit: Even the fact that they are giving the modders assets for the previous two games is a huge thing in my opinion. I would even say a little bit unprecedented in its scale. (I can't find the source but I remember a recent statement like this on the forums)
Also, modders can use Geralt's skeleton on a female body. It won't be perfect, but it would work sufficiently I believe. Of course armors have to be redone, nothing can be done about that. But VOs, in a game like this (It's not Skyrim mind you, with so little voice acting), it would create a HUGE cost (If you consider other languages, an insane amount of cost even). And all in all, the creator of the game would be creating costly assets that they won't use, just because of the possibility that some modders will use them... As a person who modded amateurly a little, and who follows modders for nearly all the games he loves, I can say that that's definitely not how modding works. Not at all... The best thing the devs can (and hopefully will) do is giving a really flexible and easy to use modding tool. All else is on the modders. That's the spirit of modding You need to give your all to it, because it comes from passion.Edit: Even the fact that they are giving the modders assets for the previous two games is a huge thing in my opinion. I would even say a little bit unprecedented in its scale. (I can't find the source but I remember a recent statement like this on the forums)
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@Thorinx
Maybe I'm a bit extreme on this, and it's alright if you view my opinion as such, but I believe that if CDPR has an ounce of respect for their own product and for its identity as a work of art, as well as a grain of confidence in its ability to stand on its own and sell based on its qualities, they'll never even think of doing such a thing. That would be nothing other than trying to attract each and every possible gamer with a half-assed, tacked-on gimmick and taking a dump onto what they should be relying on as the game's strongest asset: the story. And that would be the very moment I'd lose all my respect for CDPR.
As @Scryar said, it's not a sandbox such as Skyrim, but giving access to mod kits and encouraging the community to create whatever strikes their fancy is great nonetheless. However, what you suggest is a different thing entirely and a matter of principle first and foremost. So, I don't think it will ever happen, and I sure as hell hope it doesn't.
Maybe I'm a bit extreme on this, and it's alright if you view my opinion as such, but I believe that if CDPR has an ounce of respect for their own product and for its identity as a work of art, as well as a grain of confidence in its ability to stand on its own and sell based on its qualities, they'll never even think of doing such a thing. That would be nothing other than trying to attract each and every possible gamer with a half-assed, tacked-on gimmick and taking a dump onto what they should be relying on as the game's strongest asset: the story. And that would be the very moment I'd lose all my respect for CDPR.
As @Scryar said, it's not a sandbox such as Skyrim, but giving access to mod kits and encouraging the community to create whatever strikes their fancy is great nonetheless. However, what you suggest is a different thing entirely and a matter of principle first and foremost. So, I don't think it will ever happen, and I sure as hell hope it doesn't.
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So, this is about females? Well, I don't think these ladies needs to be modded...
Well, I couldn't agree with you more on that. But stepping back from all the details, my original post is about 3 things. In order to make the most of Witcher 3 (sales) they need to get the dedicated Skyrim / RPG modding community on board. To do that I believe for CDPR needs to provide the raw assets for playable female characters. Allow companions. And allow player homes and player home functionality. With those 3 things they are guaranteed to get the entire RPG modding community on board. If they do not, they may not. And may pay a price over the long haul. That is of course their choice to make. Considering the cost/benifit of doing it is their job. And they obviously will make their own decisions about that. But, I'm confident that if they do not do this, there will be a knock on effect that equals LOST unit sales. Is it thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions of unit sales? I dont know. But it's not nothing.
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I suppose that's one way to look at it. Half-assed, tacked on, gimmick, taking dump, seems an odd way to look at it. Changing the gender of the protagonist does not change any, (read as, not one single) story element. I think its strange that anyone cares how I want to enjoy my game.
I'm not sure I understand what principle is at stake here? How you see Geralt and how other people might see him/her? How you want to enjoy the game and how others might enjoy it more...
I think this is even the most important point. I was just thinking about the first 3min of the prologue we have seen. If you replace Geralt with some random female character, the whole scene wouldn't make any sense but heavily violate the source (books) and the previous games. Vesemir talks to Geralt like to a son- Vesemir doesn't have any relation with the random female charatcer.
Yennefer wrote that she still have the unicorn and Geralt replies that they used it as a bed-> the random female character never slept with Yennefer on a unicorn.
Even in this first 3min of the game there would be several violations of the books lore. And this is how it would go on for the rest of the game.
I don't care if someone creates mods, which violate the lore in and others download them. But I start caring if CD Project Red does, because it has a "official touch" then. And I think CD Project Red wouldn't want to actively contribute to people who make nonsense of their story, characters and all the other hard work they put into the game.
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I don't think you understand the scale of the game, and the amount of lines Geralt will have... And considering the fact that there will be need to record things more than once most of the time (as it won't be perfect for the first time). I seriously don't think we are in the same page my friend
Also, there are already female animations in the game, as we will play with Ciri for a significant amount of time.
The prices from website are not for time spent at the studio. They are for recorded dialogue.
That where we disagree the most. Having Female assets isn't going to make or break a modding community. A modding community without those assets will make them if need be, if it was going to be a descent modding community to begin with. There are many modders that even enjoy such a challenge. Play homes is a meh feature for most people to begin with so it not being included... Modding community isn't going to be hurt by it lack there of. Followers on the other hand... I can see not having them as an issue, but the concept of the Lone wolf is well the lone wolf... It also shouldn't be too hard for modders to add if the red kit is decent allowing script to be called in game start... Is there cases where NPC's follow Geralt already? Those scripts/functions could be used as a base for a follower script. (Though personally I'd rather see a fleshed out NPC Involved Quest scenes than a follower that kills things for me but to each his own) I can only hope this will be doable with the kit Red provides.
I admit, this is an interesting question. I'm pretty sure I don't agree, but its interesting. I mean, what if I only want to change the color of Geralt's hair. I want him to have red hair like mine. Have I broken the story? Are those first 3 minutes irreparably changed in meaning and context because of the red hair?
But he is the White Wolf. Maybe we're not allowed to imagine or enjoy ANY change whatsoever to CDPR's interpretation of the books. Maybe red hair really does destroy the character. Can CDPR sanction or endorse changing Geralt's hair color? Can they in good conscience give us hair color changing tools in the modding kit?
What if I want to give him a mohawk? Like my mohawk, so I feel a more personal connection to the character as I play him? What if I'm black, and want to see myself in the Witcher games. Can CDPR sanction a Black Person in the game? Or a black version of Garalt? What if I'm a black woman, and I want to truly feel myself in the role of Geralt the monster slayer. I mean, how awesome would it be, as a black woman to play a bad ass Black Female Geralt. Would that be ok? Have I broken something, quintessentially important? Can CDPR allow this kind of interpretation? Can they sanction it? Can they give me the tools to make the game I want to play?
What if when I read the books I imagined Geralt as Latino, because I'm Latino? What if I imagined he had freckles? What if? What if?
I understand that CDPR has a strong characterization for the character in the Wild Hunt. But lets be honest, Geralt 3 looks nothing like Geralt from the Witcher 1. How is everyone so sure of what Geralt looks like? Why shouldn't modders imagine Geralt any way they want. Why shouldn't CDPR help modders to accomplish that?
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So much to go through here... and I am telling you this as a modder myself....
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mod...smods.com/skyrim/ajax/modfiles/?id=2666&pUp=1
(Needs login to see, as it is considered an "adult" mod).
Yes, it says it has a total of 7 million + cumulative downloads (more on it being cumulative later). But, it also says it has only 3.5 million unique downloads, which is not the same as total, right? Unique downloads mean unique logins. So we are not talking about 7 million players, and in one felt swoop, we cut down the number in half. Then we have to look at the cumulative nature of the downloads. If we click on the Files tab, we can see there are 5 files, and each file has a number of unique downloads associated with each of them. Given the nature of the files, it is easily to conclude the same user downloaded each file, with each download counting as a unique login. If we add them together, we only get 94, 285 unique downloads, by probably 30,000 unique users (estimated)... wow, that certainly is not even close to 3.5+ mil. What happened? What happened, is that there have been multiple versions of these files uploaded to the site, and who knows how many of them although given the version numbers, they most have been around 30 or so unique files? If not more? So, looking at the numbers posted on the site, it is clear that the number of users downloading this mod is not even close as significant as you made it out to be.
I'd also suggest you look at the top Files listings, the All Time in particular, and notice how much better the "non-adult" mods do in contrast to the "adult" mods.
Caliente is 1 guy. Not exactly a thriving modding community. And again, look at the other "non-adult" mods and tell me the body modders are who make the thriving modding community.
Yeah, let's say it is $20,000. But it is not. "Suggested rate" is just that... "suggested". Some voice actors make less, some voice actors make A LOT more than that. It depends on the project. But then it isn't only the cost of the voice actor, is it? There are sound engineers, game developers, studio fees, added time to release date, etc etc etc... all of those cost money too.
One last thing, since you can't get past Skyrim. Look up Nehrim.
I am going to first address this, because you are way inflating your numbers, A LOT. Let's check the nexusmods.com page for Caliente's mods.
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mod...smods.com/skyrim/ajax/modfiles/?id=2666&pUp=1
(Needs login to see, as it is considered an "adult" mod).
Yes, it says it has a total of 7 million + cumulative downloads (more on it being cumulative later). But, it also says it has only 3.5 million unique downloads, which is not the same as total, right? Unique downloads mean unique logins. So we are not talking about 7 million players, and in one felt swoop, we cut down the number in half. Then we have to look at the cumulative nature of the downloads. If we click on the Files tab, we can see there are 5 files, and each file has a number of unique downloads associated with each of them. Given the nature of the files, it is easily to conclude the same user downloaded each file, with each download counting as a unique login. If we add them together, we only get 94, 285 unique downloads, by probably 30,000 unique users (estimated)... wow, that certainly is not even close to 3.5+ mil. What happened? What happened, is that there have been multiple versions of these files uploaded to the site, and who knows how many of them although given the version numbers, they most have been around 30 or so unique files? If not more? So, looking at the numbers posted on the site, it is clear that the number of users downloading this mod is not even close as significant as you made it out to be.
I'd also suggest you look at the top Files listings, the All Time in particular, and notice how much better the "non-adult" mods do in contrast to the "adult" mods.
Skyrim modding happened because the Elder Scrolls series has a long history of modding, and modding has, in a way, become the game. Skyrim not only benefits from the modding reputation of Morrowind and Oblivion, it also benefits from the modding reputation of Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
... which you could do as well in Witcher 1 and 2. I am going to assume that by "modding tools" you meant the Creation Kit, not the other modding tools necessary to make such mods. I take it you don't make mods yourself?
Oh, no!!!!! LOL
Caliente is 1 guy. Not exactly a thriving modding community. And again, look at the other "non-adult" mods and tell me the body modders are who make the thriving modding community.
Numbers? And please sound numbers, not like your 7 million downloads
Yeah, let's say it is $20,000. But it is not. "Suggested rate" is just that... "suggested". Some voice actors make less, some voice actors make A LOT more than that. It depends on the project. But then it isn't only the cost of the voice actor, is it? There are sound engineers, game developers, studio fees, added time to release date, etc etc etc... all of those cost money too.
So we already debunked the 7 million download myth. Now I'll ask you, how many unit sales of Skyrim are directly attributed to this mod?
One last thing, since you can't get past Skyrim. Look up Nehrim.
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No red hair wouldn't break story line... Though it'd be akward it wouldn't break it. However referring to a female as Father figure and talking to them in tones suggestive of talking to a male would... Everyone in the world treats Geralt as they would a MAN!
@SystemShock7 i was actually going off the premise that he was talking about doing it in a non-adult way... but even then it wouldn't kill a modding community about these feature not being part of base
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Changing hair color? Already done..
Brown hair:
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher2/mods/736/?
Blond Geralt:
http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher2/mods/144/?
Anyway, here is the top 100 Skyrim mods:
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/topalltime/?adult=0
Tbh, I don't think that W3 will need any of this...
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@Thorinx Because making Geralt's hair color red, and the original dev studio adding female VO assets that won't be used anyone but a modder is the same thing? Look, I said from the beginning, I'm all for modding. And I don't care if someone wants to make/play as a female protagonist. But the original developer adding raw assets that won't be used in the game is just not how any of this works. Then just make them add a female character option. They would have created the assets anyway at that point?.. Who needs a modder then? I mean, after that last post, I can't even... I'm out of here
It's not that doing it would change the story, it's that it would render it meaningless, devoid of sense if it weren't Geralt at the center of it. I don't care how you enjoy your game, I care about what CDPR decides to do with their game. It's a matter of their integrity, they're not just trying to maximise sales whatever the cost. They are making the product they want to make. If CDPR had wanted to make a Skyrim copy to try and steal its enormous community, they would have made a Skyrim copy. Which The Witcher 3 is not.
As I said, my opinion is that providing every possible asset to facilitate the creation of every possible kind of mod is great; CDPR actively trying and dismantling the essence of The Witcher themselves, and encouraging people who, as you maintain, wouldn't otherwise be interested in the game to not give a damn about the coherence of the story - which is supposed to be the game's strongest quality - is nothing short of pathetic.
You're bundling two very different matters together with that last sentence. Releasing mod kits and essentially telling people they're free to do want they want is fine and nobody is arguing against that (I don't think so, at least). Going out of their way to create a female rendition of Geralt, voice-over and all, is breaking the coherence of the game's story just to incorporate some cheap way to attract customers. As I stated above, a half-assed, tacked-on gimmick stripped naked of all the dignity and professionality CDPR has always shown.
(Just to be clear, I wouldn't want to come off as too hostile towards you in particular. I respect your opinion and your freedom to disagree.)
As I said, my opinion is that providing every possible asset to facilitate the creation of every possible kind of mod is great; CDPR actively trying and dismantling the essence of The Witcher themselves, and encouraging people who, as you maintain, wouldn't otherwise be interested in the game to not give a damn about the coherence of the story - which is supposed to be the game's strongest quality - is nothing short of pathetic.
You're bundling two very different matters together with that last sentence. Releasing mod kits and essentially telling people they're free to do want they want is fine and nobody is arguing against that (I don't think so, at least). Going out of their way to create a female rendition of Geralt, voice-over and all, is breaking the coherence of the game's story just to incorporate some cheap way to attract customers. As I stated above, a half-assed, tacked-on gimmick stripped naked of all the dignity and professionality CDPR has always shown.
(Just to be clear, I wouldn't want to come off as too hostile towards you in particular. I respect your opinion and your freedom to disagree.)
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This is a big big response. I appreciate you taking the time you took to dig into my writing. I'm tempted to go line by line and debate with you, but for the sake of the thread I'll resist. Let me respond more generally. I agree with most of your facts, and much of what you're you are saying is absolutely true. Yet it does not really refute the point I'm making.
In a lot of instances, I never claimed what you claimed I claimed. I never said 7 million downloads = 7 million individual gamers. Nor 7 million in sales lost. Nor anything like it. Its a number that speaks for itself.
You point out, that Caliente is one modder. Indeed he/she is. And this one modder created a platform for dozens of other modders doing clothing, makeup, armor, skin textures and so on. This single modder created a virtual industry that allowed dozens of modders to work and be inspired with ideas. Which lead to thousands of individual mods being created. I'm trying to show the knock on effect. Take out playable females, you potentially lose dozens or even hundreds of modders, thousands of modds and an entire section of the community. The question is can Witcher's community afford to lose them?
You clearly don't like or don't care about that part of the community, which is fine. But a thriving community, doing all kinds of innovative work all feeds back into the game, then feeds back into the modding community. You run a big risk by summarily dismissing huge sections of the Modding community. You can lose lots of Modders them and the players who want those mods. Which knocks and knocks and knocks at CDPR's bottom line.
How many sales will it equal? I truely don't know, and doubt you do either. (but who knows, you may be a Wharton/Harvard MBA.) I asked, does it equal Thousands of boxes? Tens of thousands of boxes? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Whatever the number is, its not nothing.
I wonder is any of you had any modding experience.
You all think to much in context. Like player home - is very same landmass expansion just much smaller, the only problem is if we have ability to store items in chests.
My only wish is that they give possibility to create game mechanics, and good system for multi mod installing.
PS: Leave the game alone, want your special snow flake witcher - learn to mod.
You all think to much in context. Like player home - is very same landmass expansion just much smaller, the only problem is if we have ability to store items in chests.
My only wish is that they give possibility to create game mechanics, and good system for multi mod installing.
PS: Leave the game alone, want your special snow flake witcher - learn to mod.
That isn't the issue. You can enjoy the game any way you please.
The principle is that you're asking CDPR to spend money on VAs, and to divert their efforts into producing assets. This does affect other players, as that money and effort could be used for something else so yes, expect people to disagree with you. The whole point of enabling modding is to allow the developer to concentrate on other things, and NOT be expected to meet the requests of someone who wants to do something that breaks the integrity of the game.
The way that CDPR would best support the modding community is to bring out the modding tools as soon as possible, productized in a way that makes them accessible to anyone who wants to mod. How those tools are used is entirely down to the modders themselves. You want a female protagonist? Fine, go ahead. But it's YOUR role, not CDPR's, to make it, or to convince other modders to make it. Modders, not CDPR. Just as it's the modder who decides to make a MLP version of Roach or turn all of the wyverns into butterflies, if that's what they want to do.
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Well, I'm not sure what I'm doing. Maybe I'm asking them to do that. But actually, I'm on a forum asking questions and talking about it. Partly because its the kind of modding I want to see happening in the game. But mostly because I'm worried that CDPR wont get the same colossal Modding Community that Skyrim got. And I want them to have a MASSIVE ACTIVE SWITCHED ON MOTIVATED Modding community. And I want them to have that same level of success that Skyrim had. Morrowind sold 4 million units. Skyrim sold 20 million units putting them in the top 25 games ever sold. Next to GTA, Super Mario and any number of other legendary sellers. And Bethesda attributes that success to the Modding community.
This keeps coming up in the response to my posts. I'm not sure I really understand it. Where does the Integrity of the game come into this? This might sound like I'm baiting the purists, but I'm really not. I don't understand the Visceral reaction to this. How is giving modders the tools they need to customize Geralt any way they want, trespassing on sacred video game or creative ground?
I see it as a case of wasted resources. Geralt being anything other that what Mr. Sapkowski and CDPR made him out to be, serves no purpose. I don't see why CDPR would waste time and effort on making all these models and voice packs when it has nothing to do with how they want to tell the story or present their game. If you want it any other way, you've got the tools made available for you, and that's where CDPR's "facilitating" should stop, imo.
Then there's the case of alienating all these "purists" as you call them. I for one call them the true fans, the people that understand that Geralt is a pre-defined character, with a very specific overall look, voice, etc. You shouldn't take the piss out of the very people you built your company upon, at least that's how I see it.