Townsfolk Deck Solution

[Duhad]

Capping DJ seems to be the best option over all, but just for the sake of argument let me also toss this out their...

SY leaders need provision changes, DJ especially!

Seriously provision variants between leaders are used in basically every other faction to balance out stronger and weaker leaders, but aside from the tiny increases of Whoreson and Cyrus being at 16, all SY leaders are at 15, the default 'average' amount used for leaders considered more or less balanced. So Cleaver and DJ are given equal points and are considered basically about even in terms of power right now.


Now I'm not a smart lady, I doubt I could come up with a really, truly good set of numbers for SY provision changes, but surely Cleaver being given 16-17 points rather then 15 could help his low tier status a little and DJ (though still needing a cap) being at 11 points down with Gernichora (another leader with a powerful ramp ability) or at least 13 with Herald and Fran (two other leaders who have really high burst potential) would make him feel less like 'More or less objectively better Gudrun'.

 

[akhorahill]

DJ can be left alone if Igor is given a cooldown.

 

[Shagric]

DJ can be left alone if Igor is given a cooldown.

i absolutly disagree. he is also the strongest leader for a bounty package, or ANY syndicate package there is. he is the most flexible, gains the most value AND has the best carry over out of all of them.

 

[BrokeCiri]

Sigismund Dijkstra
Provision Cost: 13
Order: Gain 1 Coins.
Charge: 5
Whenever you play a Crime card gain 1 Charge. Dijsktra can only hold up to 9 Charges.

Make him hold up to 9 Charges only, this way he can't hoard more than 9 Charges and burst it in just one turn. It also makes the player use Charges ahead so that Profit will not overshoot the 9 Charge and Coin cap, this way it makes his gameplay require MORE managing and optimizing of Coins and spenders than the other SY leaders. I've also seen suggestions that make him gain Coins whenever playing a Crime card instead, that's a nice version but i find it boring.

For an ability that exceeds the average leader value, a provision cost of 13 would be just right. Same goes for King Foltest, i'm okay of him keeping the 2 boost as long as he is nerfed to at least 12 or 13 provision cost.

Regarding Townsfolk, I like to think of Townsfolk + Bincy as the SY version of Greatswords + Dagur. The card mechanics of those cards are close, so whenever i see a suggestion to make Townsfolk boost only once at turn end, i end up also thinking of Greatswords only boosting once at turn end. As for Igor, a cooldown would do just like how Caleb got treated.

 

[deckard_kaine]

Sigismund Dijkstra
Provision Cost: 13
Order: Gain 1 Coins.
Charge: 5
Whenever you play a Crime card gain 1 Charge. Dijsktra can only hold up to 9 Charges.

Make him hold up to 9 Charges only, this way he can't hoard more than 9 Charges and burst it in just one turn. It also makes the player use Charges ahead so that Profit will not overshoot the 9 Charge and Coin cap, this way it makes his gameplay require MORE managing and optimizing of Coins and spenders than the other SY leaders. I've also seen suggestions that make him gain Coins whenever playing a Crime card instead, that's a nice version but i find it boring.

For an ability that exceeds the average leader value, a provision cost of 13 would be just right. Same goes for King Foltest, i'm okay of him keeping the 2 boost as long as he is nerfed to at least 12 or 13 provision cost.

Regarding Townsfolk, I like to think of Townsfolk + Bincy as the SY version of Greatswords + Dagur. The card mechanics of those cards are close, so whenever i see a suggestion to make Townsfolk boost only once at turn end, i end up also thinking of Greatswords only boosting once at turn end. As for Igor, a cooldown would do just like how Caleb got treated.

While I agree with most of your points, I think 9 cap is still too high. Combine this with the 4 coins you bring over from the previous round and now you'd have 13 points of carry-over. Well, 13 points of uninteractive carry-over is quite a lot, even with the provision nerf.

However, that's just my 5 cents on the matter and, truly, only a Meta can show us the real numbers.

 

[ardeathwinggwent]

The ladder is speaking for itself.

 

[akhorahill]

i absolutly disagree. he is also the strongest leader for a bounty package, or ANY syndicate package there is. he is the most flexible, gains the most value AND has the best carry over out of all of them.

Sure, but the thread is about a specific deck, not DJ or bounty or the coin mechanic.

The townsfolk deck can be tackled by changing Igor so he will no longer be played as one of the last cards, spawning five to six townsfolks, which will be buffed unevenly by DJ, excluding even igni from being a good answer.

 

[Shagric]

Sure, but the thread is about a specific deck, not DJ or bounty or the coin mechanic.

The townsfolk deck can be tackled by changing Igor so he will no longer be played as one of the last cards, spawning five to six townsfolks, which will be buffed unevenly by DJ, excluding even igni from being a good answer.

but why would you cange a card when its not the problem? and another card (or leader in this case) is also causing problems in other situation?

that said, i read a cool balance idea for dj somewhere (reddit?):

start with 3 charges
+1 charge per gold crime played
+1 coin per bronze crime played
max 6 charges
12 (?) provision (compaired to king of baggars he would still be way to strong with 15 prov)

with this you could still get a huge finisher if you manage to get the 2 card combo of undesturbed, but it will be much harder. the most points you could get would be 34 points (if i did the math correct?!), which is still huge, but that would involve the full 6 leader charges, full 9 coins and a 2 card combo - which imo seams fair compaired to other combos like that.

 

[Archan6el]

Sure, but the thread is about a specific deck, not DJ or bounty or the coin mechanic.

To really fix a problem, you need to know the root cause. Investigate why these SY things are bad and you will see that the root cause is the coin mechanic. The coin mechanic is a broken mechanic, similar to artifacts but much worse. These discussions about changes for specific OP leaders and cards are simply irrelevant at this time and distract from the root cause that needs to be addressed first. After that, changes that may (still) be required for leaders and cards can be analyzed and made.

 

[Shagric]

To really fix a problem, you need to know the root cause. Investigate why these SY things are bad and you will see that the root cause is the coin mechanic. The coin mechanic is a broken mechanic, similar to artifacts but much worse. These discussions about changes for specific OP leaders and cards are simply irrelevant at this time and distract from the root cause that needs to be addressed first. After that, changes that may (still) be required for leaders and cards can be analyzed and made.

while that is true - and I have said so aswell - I do not think CDPR will consider changing the coin mechanic anywhere in the near future, so whats left for us to discuss is how to get the best balance DESPITE the coin/fee machanic beeing broken in its design. And for that DJ is the worst culprit, is he not?

 

[Archan6el]

while that is true - and I have said so aswell - I do not think CDPR will consider changing the coin mechanic anywhere in the near future, so whats left for us to discuss is how to get the best balance DESPITE the coin/fee machanic beeing broken in its design. And for that DJ is the worst culprit, is he not?

DJ is a symptom, a big one. One thing I know for sure is that focusing on symptoms will not get the root cause fixed. The coin mechanic should be changed. Not focusing on the most important because you think it will not be changed, well, that is actually a big step towards giving up on the game. Which is quite understandable at this point.

 

[Koi.Master]

The Carryover Coin is Broken.
You can't do anything about it.
There were firesworn+Igor spamming but it's not broken.
because it's the only card that can play together.
not DJ Exceed the coin cap broke the game.

 

[Shabman]

The problem is, as everyone is pointing out, the coin mechanic. What was the point in having these annoying provisions - which I've always hated - to regulate card cost vs. output, if we're implementing a system that completely makes a joke of this and generates crazy value in a vacuum?

On the upside, Dijkstra Townsfolk is a very beta-ey point spam deck. Lots of interaction, lots of points, lots of engines, great!

Too bad it's absolutely untouchable for the vast majority of setups. And I think no matter how much balance will be balanced in future patches/expansions, it will never make up for the fact that SY has coins and everybody else doesn't.

The game is getting too complicated, and someone should have noticed earlier in development that the more variables you put in, the harder it's going to be to balance. Artifacts, Orders, Zeal, Charges, Coins...where does it stop?

 

[DRK3]

So, i need help with this... not in how to counter DJ Townsfolk deck, but in understanding how it is so problematic.

Somehow in the 25 or so hours i played this season i only faced Dijkstra once. Yes, im playing mostly casual, seasonal and im not gonna play ranked enough to reach where he is most present, but still i find it weird to see him so rarely (it must be something with my matchmaking)

But nevermind that, why is he so OP? I know how the Igor+Townsfolk combo works, even before Dijkstra i made this and many other Igor decks. But why cant you just lock Igor or remove Townsfolk and that's it, combo countered. Does the meta DJ Townsfolk use S.Circle to play both in same turn? Then artefact removal would be more prevalent in the meta. To me, it seems Foltest Blue Stripes is way harder to counter, but maybe im missing something here.

 

[4RM3D]

Somehow in the 25 or so hours i played this season i only faced Dijkstra once. Yes, im playing mostly casual, seasonal and im not gonna play ranked enough to reach where he is most present, but still i find it weird to see him so rarely [...]

You've already answered your own question. DJ is mostly played in the upper half of ranked. Besides, in seasonal, he is far too slow because of the short timer.

But why cant you just lock Igor or remove Townsfolk and that's it, combo countered. Does the meta DJ Townsfolk use S.Circle to play both in same turn? Then artefact removal would be more prevalent in the meta.

DJ is too flexible, with too much variance.

The combo can be disrupted in a number of ways, yes. That's not the reason he is too strong. Even shutting down that particular combo, he is still very flexible and has other means to gain value. Furthermore, if you cannot counter the combo, you'll most likely lose. Not every deck has the means ready to prevent the combo from happening.

 

[SkiZophreniC]

So, i need help with this... not in how to counter DJ Townsfolk deck, but in understanding how it is so problematic.

The best way to understand is to play the deck. It is incredibly powerful and hyper polyvalent. Most of the time the opponent cannot interact with you because you play a lot of crimes and bank coins. When finally you put a unit on the board it is too late.

The Portal + Novigradian Justice give the deck very good consistency, without mentionning the Flying boat. This while putting a great threat on the board. You do not even need the circle for the combo, as often the opponent used all his counters on the bounty package

At lower ranks it should be 80% winrate (it is my current winrate at rank 0)

 

[soph912]

But nevermind that, why is he so OP? I know how the Igor+Townsfolk combo works, even before Dijkstra i made this and many other Igor decks. But why cant you just lock Igor or remove Townsfolk and that's it, combo countered. Does the meta DJ Townsfolk use S.Circle to play both in same turn? Then artefact removal would be more prevalent in the meta. To me, it seems Foltest Blue Stripes is way harder to counter, but maybe im missing something here.

You can't remove two townsfolk unless you happen to play Foltest and draw into Seltkirk + Anseis. If they come out at the same turn with summoning circle even this does not help.

You can hardly run more than one artefact removal so it will often be in the deck when you need it.