Vocal reactions vs A.I. reactions

[XianeX]

I think the one thing that's missing from the A.I. is that the A.I. reacts mechanically in certain situations. Realistically, there should be some proximity radius that causes the A.I. to get startled/go into shock when one of their companions gets their head blown off right in front of them. Realistically, I don't know anybody, not even military-trained people that would instantly react to focus on pulling weapons and fighting the enemy if one second they're having a conversation and then the person that they're talking to's head exploded in front of them. Ironically, the night citizens react appropriately to any conflict, but the actual gangsters never shirk from something abruptly horrifying happening.

For instance, Valentinos will say stuff like "Dodged that bullet" or yell "No no no no!" when one of their friends gets hit. But none of the A.I. does the "Oh Shit! WTF just happened!" flinch when someone too close to them gets blasted. It seems trivial, but there are a lot of things that can be done with those reactions from both a gameplay and cinematic context.

I think something as simple as how NIght City citizens react when trying to dodge vehicles is the appropriate reaction when witnessing someone getting shot in close proximity to you (particularly before the conflict is fully engaged).

 

[tavellone]

The AI in this game is still quite bad and it will never be fundamentally changed so we just have to deal with it.

 

[Nixilos]

Can still only expect so much from a game I guess. On the other hand this setting is pretty rough, and people see death and suffering on the streets every day in night city. But yeah a bit more emphasis on startle reactions wouldn't be bad.

 

[XianeX]

The AI in this game is still quite bad and it will never be fundamentally changed so we just have to deal with it.

It's not bad, it's just incomplete.

Can still only expect so much from a game I guess. On the other hand this setting is pretty rough, and people see death and suffering on the streets every day in night city. But yeah a bit more emphasis on startle reactions wouldn't be bad.

Programmatically, it shouldn't be that difficult. I pretty much gave the solution. Set a proximity radius, and trigger a startled event when a proximal agent is attacked from a non-combat state.

Realistically, Night City doesn't feel as dystopian as it feels like a regular U.S. city. Particularly, an Urban city. Night City is a regular U.S. city with people doing dystopic things at a higher level. This is EXACTLY how it actually is! Outside of V being the most dynamic element in just about everything going on, The world is tame for a bounty hunter mercenary to incite against the status quo.

I think one of the biggest things missing from the world is a frequently dangerous environment, to differentiate it from how America normally is in any big city. Realistically, and FACTUALLY, you can look at the history of Tulsa and the current news events from my city and it sounds and looks worse than Night City. For instance, if they didn't just have a couple of new NPC car chases, but had arbitrary people going off and shooting people randomly in the streets, be it both from gangsters and civilians, it would be more frightening/intimidating as a "Simulation" of a "Fantasy" dystopic American city. This would be much more than a "regular" U.S. big city.

Simply put, the only "bully" in the city is V. A city where everyone is supposedly trying to be legends. It doesn't take the fun and entertainment away from the game as it is, it just exposes what makes the game world feel empty in comparison to how the lore and in-game opinions about the world manifest.

My personal opinion comes from my experience as an artist when my city was much more violent, and features of Night City were actually what the underworld of my city actually "felt" like. Much of it is captured in the game, but there are parts that are missing that would elucidate a more fantastic version that, in general, merely looks like NORMAL America per the game world.

 

[Nixilos]

True, what is truly brutal about Night City at least in this game is mostly left up to the reader to figure out. I said reader on purpose because most of it is in the little text blurbs you can read in texts or shards. When you put it all together it's a pretty depressing place, I don't think it needs to lean into that any harder than it already does just because real life can be as bad or worse.

The dynamic events and and action in the city could still be tons better and more frequent. You are right about that, cyberpsychos being only fixed events in specific places and never showing up randomly in crowds is a missed opportunity. I would have liked to have to fight off more of the assassins sent by Arasaka as well, Troy were they called I think? These could also just be really tedious things though if they weren't designed carefully and well thought. Idk it is what it is.

 

[XianeX]

True, what is truly brutal about Night City at least in this game is mostly left up to the reader to figure out. I said reader on purpose because most of it is in the little text blurbs you can read in texts or shards. When you put it all together it's a pretty depressing place, I don't think it needs to lean into that any harder than it already does just because real life can be as bad or worse.

The dynamic events and and action in the city could still be tons better and more frequent. You are right about that, cyberpsychos being only fixed events in specific places and never showing up randomly in crowds is a missed opportunity. I would have liked to have to fight off more of the assassins sent by Arasaka as well, Troy were they called I think? These could also just be really tedious things though if they weren't designed carefully and well thought. Idk it is what it is.

I mostly agree. Finding dead bodies all over the place and the stories that comprise their mentality SEVERELY change the view of the environment. But even the lore of the game says that cyber psychosis is mostly mythological. It's reminiscent of general Mental health problems in Oklahoma. The Federal Cash Allocation from Kathleen Sebelius is definitely parallel to this in Oklahoma, historically. I can imagine that the Polish folks who actually had to research what America is like put together the shards as an artistic representation of what America reads and sounds like compared to what it looks like.

What you said about a "missed opportunity" is important.

True, it could be tedious, but what were people paying to experience in Night City? To read and hear about that reality and rarely see it? For instance, in my state statistically, women are locked up here more than just about any other state in America. To hear or read that hits significantly different than experiencing, the mentality of women here and discerning why due to their cultural behavior, they're frequently incarcerated.

In Night City, dead bodies are everywhere and it's always chatter about bad people and how bad it is, but crime is mostly invisible unless V is participating in it. That's evocatively depressing, but it isn't "threatening". V's story can be mostly avoided. The fear of eventually dying isn't the same feeling of people bringing the flirtation of murder to your neighborhood, and it creeping up to your front door.

Realistically, learning what to actually expect from the system changed how I played the game. I came into the game with more fear-driven expectations, and then after I realized I wouldn't be confronted with my fear-driven expectations (beyond V's second death), I started treating V as a Terminator. The Scared and Unfamiliar newb starts as Net Runner/Ranger. The Experienced player becomes a Melee Monster ("Animal" ganger).

https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/aca/79/

 

[Nixilos]

I mostly agree.

Yeah I'd be down for an even grittier experience through this city myself but I don't think it's what they were going for. From a product perspective though it's probably not the direction they ever intended to go. Cyberpunk is a style over substance kind of thing, and Night City is a compelling backdrop for a campy action game.

I understand the thirst for something more serious but this already has it's moments. I think lots of people don't want to be depressed any more than this by a video game story too, so there's that. It's not that many years ago that something like this game would have been considered too obscene just for having what it has in the story blurbs even though it doesn't depict them on screen, and not that long before that what is depicted on screen would have been to extreme as well. And vice versa really.

Careful not to get too desensitized and forget that.

If we're talking pure gameplay action and stuff then yea I want more reasons to drive around and blast stuff.

 

[XianeX]

I understand the thirst for something more serious but this already has it's moments. I think lots of people don't want to be depressed any more than this by a video game story too, so there's that. It's not that many years ago that something like this game would have been considered too obscene just for having what it has in the story blurbs even though it doesn't depict them on screen, and not that long before that what is depicted on screen would have been to extreme as well. And vice versa really.

Careful not to get too desensitized and forget that.

If we're talking pure gameplay action and stuff then yea I want more reasons to drive around and blast stuff.

That's kinda where I'm at. More action to counterbalance a lot of the depressing parts in the actual quests and shards. The Irony is that many of the quests are built FOR desensitization. Without a lot of Pawel Sasko quotes, being asked to participate in a guy's crucifixion as a monetized alternative to a typical execution . . . Yeah, I'd definitely prefer more gameplay action, both inside and outside of the quests to basically ensure that I have as much excitement and thrill from the environment as I do depressing moments from actually reflecting on the circumstances of missions and shards.

Basically, the world needs to demonstrate my character's reason for being a bounty hunter / serial killer is most assuredly due to the environment (more than the desire to be famous and delay a schizophrenic visitor killing me from my mind LOL).

Ultimately, with the little amount of backstory for V that's available, their philosophy ends up being a B-Legit lyric "This ain't nothin' new, this is what we've been doing". Otherwise, V (male and/or female) ends up being a bimbo who's a victim of peer pressure and eventually lucks out after learning the hard way.

The lack of the environment demonstrating an imminent threat (an incentivized gangster) always makes me think that V could have made better choices. Nothing about the game world suggests that a different life wasn't possible. Night City's (in-game) environment is like watching a friend choose a gangsta lifestyle, even though there was nothing initially directly pressing for the character to be a hard ass.

The game parallels a lot of stuff I've seen in real life. It's probably why I love it as a work of art. It's got a lot, but it's missing a few pieces. I tend to drift in the social psychology of the world independent of quests and lore text.

Post automatically merged: Oct 12, 2023

I'll finish this off by saying, Mike Pondsmith exclaimed that Trigger "nailed it!" Why?! It was the active environmental pressures on David that drove his decisions. It's much of why Edge Runners has driven the resurgence of CP77 popularity. It filled in the gaps in the environment and the show felt closer to reality. 2.0+ and PL has put more grit in the environment. Just knowing about crazy doesn't drive people into the edge runner lifestyle, it's when the crazy is an invective.

 

[GuardianG17]

That's kinda where I'm at. More action to counterbalance a lot of the depressing parts in the actual quests and shards. The Irony is that many of the quests are built FOR desensitization. Without a lot of Pawel Sasko quotes, being asked to participate in a guy's crucifixion as a monetized alternative to a typical execution . . . Yeah, I'd definitely prefer more gameplay action, both inside and outside of the quests to basically ensure that I have as much excitement and thrill from the environment as I do depressing moments from actually reflecting on the circumstances of missions and shards.

Basically, the world needs to demonstrate my character's reason for being a bounty hunter / serial killer is most assuredly due to the environment (more than the desire to be famous and delay a schizophrenic visitor killing me from my mind LOL).

Ultimately, with the little amount of backstory for V that's available, their philosophy ends up being a B-Legit lyric "This ain't nothin' new, this is what we've been doing". Otherwise, V (male and/or female) ends up being a bimbo who's a victim of peer pressure and eventually lucks out after learning the hard way.

The lack of the environment demonstrating an imminent threat (an incentivized gangster) always makes me think that V could have made better choices. Nothing about the game world suggests that a different life wasn't possible. Night City's (in-game) environment is like watching a friend choose a gangsta lifestyle, even though there was nothing initially directly pressing for the character to be a hard ass. Being one of us college students, I've delved a bit into this topic, and I can tell you that understanding the motivations of in-game characters runs deeper than it might seem at first glance. Many young folks seek avenues to express themselves and their values by immersing in alternate realities where they can be heroes or villains of their own choosing. Digging into one of the research topics in psychology, I've found that games can be a powerful tool for analyzing human nature. The impunity often provided in gaming scenarios can unveil hidden human aggression. Sometimes, I ponder how I'd navigate in a real-life Night City. The game parallels a lot of stuff I've seen in real life. It's probably why I love it as a work of art. It's got a lot, but it's missing a few pieces. I tend to drift in the social psychology of the world independent of quests and lore text.

Post automatically merged: Oct 12, 2023

I'll finish this off by saying, Mike Pondsmith exclaimed that Trigger "nailed it!" Why?! It was the active environmental pressures on David that drove his decisions. It's much of why Edge Runners has driven the resurgence of CP77 popularity. It filled in the gaps in the environment and the show felt closer to reality. 2.0+ and PL has put more grit in the environment. Just knowing about crazy doesn't drive people into the edge runner lifestyle, it's when the crazy is an invective.

In essence, any game is a form of entertainment and an escape from reality. Even if it's brutal, it can't be as depressing as real life. Of course, I'd like to see more reactions to my actions, more random events, and more variety in missions. But I think it would require tons of code, and we'd be waiting for the game for another 8 years.
And it would probably be even buggier

 

[XianeX]

In essence, any game is a form of entertainment and an escape from reality. Even if it's brutal, it can't be as depressing as real life. Of course, I'd like to see more reactions to my actions, more random events, and more variety in missions. But I think it would require tons of code, and we'd be waiting for the game for another 8 years.
And it would probably be even buggier

This is why I think they should increase the frequency of the events even though I don't want the events to be ubiquitous. This explains the problem that I think CDPR has. There is a difficult balance between too much and not enough. You want the environment to be engaging, but you don't want it to be overtly oppressive. Too much oppressiveness in the environment takes the fun out of the game, and it feels like work to the player. But, if there is too little engagement from the environment, the player feels like they're just walking through a mildly interactive art museum.

Realistically, more code can't be escaped. I think some of the development issues that frequently arise for them are due to weaknesses in a CI/CD-styled workforce and trying to be optimal for both the product and the workers.

In many cases, some of the things the community asks for don't require a lot of code. it requires (re)using a lot of what already exists in different ways. The real problem for them is probably the chain of politics between the various operational groups of the company. The sales pitch for why a feature is or is not essential to the intended experience.