Was anyone else really, REALLY caught off guard by the ending?

[SayberSky]

Was anyone else really, REALLY caught off guard by the ending?

Okay, I have to vent somewhere, it's either that I really missed alot of important stuff or that "The White Frost" really does pull up a bunch of plot holes the second it appears.

Before I go into my rant, please understand that I only played the games, I actually beat all three this year for the first time, I didn't read the books, any shorts stories or anything similiar. If you have an explanation for any of my questions or something, please post them.

The game was personally a 10/10, I even ignored the pacing issues after Kaer Morhen, some bugs and glitches etc. Well it was a 10/10 until the ending. After the climactic showdown against Eredin, he just calmly says: "Oh jolly, seems like he fooled us both" and then instead of Geralt, I don't know, gnawing his other eye out with a knife, the dude just withers away. That was anticlimactic for me but okay, I'll roll with it. And then I come to the tower. And that's when things SERIOUSLY confused me. Out of all the sudden, The White Frost is brought up and apperantly, she's the only one who can stop it. Dafuq? Okay, fine then, but if she knew that was the big problem, why didn't she solve this in the first place? I mean, isn't Eredin after Ciri so he can gain power and save his world from this demise? Also, how exactly is she supposed to stop this? The only line we get is: "Only the Elder Blood can stop this. Only I can stop this." Okay...why? Why didn't you do that before? Why do you need the tower to teleport there? Why couldn't you just do it...whenever? You know, cause you have the MASTERY OF TIME AND SPACE. And I guess this would've been fine, IF IT WERE SET UP IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

On a side note, when Ciri says that "The White Frost" is inevitable,I always assumed that "The Prophecy" was just some bull, and that "The White Frost" was just something that has to happen and that there was no way to stop it (at least that's the impression I got from the ending of The Witcher 1), so that even added to my confusion, but I guess that's my fault for being an idiot and not paying attention.

But back to my point, this line...oh boy this line...it seriously pissed me the fuck off and made Ciri an infinitely less likeable character:

What can you know about saving the world, silly? You're but a witcher.

She says that to Geralt's face with no notion that it's a jest/sarcasm/whatever. How can I know that? Because if you ask her "Why didn't you tell me earlier?" and continue down a specific path of dialogue choices, she says something along the lines of "Maybe I should've told you, perhaps you'd understand after all." AND GERALT JUST ACCEPTS THAT ANSWER AND WALKS AWAY. WTF? I GOT THE BEST ENDING, WHICH MEANS I BASICALLY SUPPORTED HER THROUGH EVERYTHING AND THIS IS WHAT SHE SAYS?

Why was there no option to punch the bitch and go into a 10 minute rant explaining why Geralt has a fuck ton more experience with almost EVERYTHING compared to Ciri? After that line, I kinda didn't care about her anymore.

And, also, why is the epilogue SO DAMN SHORT AND UNSATISFYING?

Did anyone else feel the same after completing the game?

 

[Riven-Twain]

What can you know about saving the world, silly? You're but a witcher.

That line rather annoyed me as well! However, I'm also a player who initially came to the series via the games, and am only now still working through the first books. As a result, The White Frost and Ciri don't have the same impact for me. I feel, based solely upon the information we learn from the games, that the ending is rather weak, very confusing, and leaves more questions than it answers. What is the White Frost really? What causes it? How is Ciri supposed to 'stop' it? (What about the rest of the prophecy?) Why do the Wild Huntsmen and their hounds appear to be connected with the icy cold of the White Frost? Who is this Avallac'h? Where are my swords from the first two games? Who changed my hairstyle? (But I digress.)

There is a leap in lore knowledge at the climax, which leaves those uninitiated players rather puzzled. There's also an abrupt shift in character importance. At the end, I remember thinking jokingly to myself: 'Hah, hah, Geralt! And here you thought this story was about you? Wrong! It's actually been about Ciri all along: you're just a helpful witcher!' However, on that note, it helps not one bit that the most important act of Ciri's life is passed over almost entirely 'off-camera.' What did she do? Only a select few know. As a climax to the literary series, it may have its points, but as a climax to the games, it resolves very little.

I'll eventually complete reading the books, and learn some of the answers -- and all the alterations in the material -- for myself, so I'm not looking for answers here. However, the fact remains that, within the context of the games alone, judged purely by their contents, and without relying on considerable external knowledge of the lore, the story, as we have it, falls a bit flat. That said, even folks who know the lore well are upset by the ending! I suppose the moral of the game is: read the books.

So you're not alone: there is a certain amount of dissatisfaction with the game's ending, both amongst newcomers, and long-time enthusiasts, though the reasons vary.

---------- Updated at 05:12 PM ----------

Additionally, to an extent, once Geralt recovered his memory (all the information from the books, and beyond), at the end of Assassins of Kings, there's a bit of alienation for some of the 'game-familiar' audience: as the Witcher now knows what's going on, most of the supporting characters know, CD Projekt RED knows, some of the devoted fans know, but not everybody. Geralt's recovery from amnesia was a necessary, but also somewhat problematic, event in the games, for it allowed the story to progress, but it also uncovered a lot of vital knowledge in the protagonist's head; however, not all players were in a position to discover that information with him. This makes the third game difficult, for, while there are clues and references which we can pick up as we go, much remains veiled; as there's quite a bit of complex lore which cannot be covered in exposition, or even in-game books.

 

[Rawls]

It worked for me alright. Ciri has always been a bit arrogant at times in the books, so the line isn't particularly out of character. I really liked the epilogue I got (the Ciri's a Witcher one).

Spoiler

And yeah the White Frost isn't explained that well, but I think that's because the story was ultimately about the relationship between the characters, and Geralt could do nothing more by that point in the story. The White Frost is something that can only be avoided with Elder Blood. Now irrc from a lore perspective in the books, Ciri is thought to be able to open the gateways that are separating the various worlds (**edit: I think it's actually her child that is thought to be able to do this**) that used to be be operated by the Anne Elle before the conjunction of the spheres. Her power wasn't thought to be to defeat the White Frost, but to be able to help everyone leave worlds where the White Frost was occurring. In the games they obviously changed that ... which I'm not a huge fan of but I think is okay by and large. I guess Avallach found out some more information, and now she can stop the White Frost entirely.

I think I probably would have preferred a story where after killing Eredin, Ciri opens the gateways between the worlds and strives to make peace between the humans and elves. That would be more consistent with the book lore, and would be a more realistic solution ... but that would have taken a lot more time than just going into the portal and beating the White Frost ... and diplomacy is sort of boring for gaming purposes. Plus it would have made the ending more anti-climatic. I dunno... I'm gonna stop rambling now.

 

[SayberSky]

What also struck me today, I completely forgot about Alvin. He sent a letter to Geralt explaining how he couldn't stop The White Frost. Isn't he also a Child of the Elder Blood? What difference is there between Ciri and Alvin?

 

[dmcaldw]

I really hate not being able to spell but if memory serves me Alvin was Jacques De Alesburg . The difference was Jacques was becoming corrupted by his power . Ciri on the other hand is just trying to manage understanding of her power .

 

[JasonShepard]

What can you know about saving the world, silly? You're but a witcher.

I'm amazed this line actually bothered anyone. The delivery of the line was absolutely fine and there's no reason to believe that she was criticizing Geralt at all. There was no hint of anger in her voice, just sorrow. She just said it to calm Geralt down and tell him "I need to deal with this shit and this is the only way". Even if you ignore the delivery of the line and just read the line, the usage of "silly" should immediately point to the fact that Ciri is not attacking him or his profession.

 

[Rawls]

I'm amazed this line actually bothered anyone. The delivery of the line was absolutely fine and there's no reason to believe that she was criticizing Geralt at all. There was no hint of anger in her voice, just sorrow. She just said it to calm Geralt down and tell him "I need to deal with this shit and this is the only way". Even if you ignore the delivery of the line and just read the line, the usage of "silly" should immediately point to the fact that Ciri is not attacking him or his profession.

I agree. She's (1) the "Lady of Space and Time," (2) the "Child of the Elder Blood," (3) the heir to the thones of Cintra and Nilfgaard, (4) a source, (5) a (admittely unskilled) sorceress, and (6) a person trained to fight by Witchers. She is the one who can effect the fate of the world. Compared to that, given the situation they were in, Geralt is "but a Witcher." And she says it with such lament. I thought it was very well done.

 

[dmcaldw]

That line never bothered me then tone seemed in slight jest so I took it to mean " my turn". The short exchange was suppose to assure that she knew what she was doing to Geralt .

 

[JohnnyWalks]

That line rather annoyed me as well! However, I'm also a player who initially came to the series via the games, and am only now still working through the first books. As a result, The White Frost and Ciri don't have the same impact for me. I feel, based solely upon the information we learn from the games, that the ending is rather weak, very confusing, and leaves more questions than it answers. What is the White Frost really? What causes it? How is Ciri supposed to 'stop' it? (What about the rest of the prophecy?) Why do the Wild Huntsmen and their hounds appear to be connected with the icy cold of the White Frost? Who is this Avall'ach? Where are my swords from the first two games? Who changed my hairstyle? (But I digress.)

There is a leap in lore knowledge at the climax, which leaves those uninitiated players rather puzzled. There's also an abrupt shift in character importance. At the end, I remember thinking jokingly to myself: 'Hah, hah, Geralt! And here you thought this story was about you? Wrong! It's actually been about Ciri all along: you're just a helpful witcher!' However, on that note, it helps not one bit that the most important act of Ciri's life is passed over almost entirely 'off-camera.' What did she do? Only a select few know. As a climax to the literary series, it may have its points, but as a climax to the games, it resolves very little.

I'll eventually complete reading the books, and learn some of the answers -- and all the alterations in the material -- for myself, so I'm not looking for answers here. However, the fact remains that, within the context of the games alone, judged purely by their contents, and without relying on considerable external knowledge of the lore, the story, as we have it, falls a bit flat. That said, even folks who know the lore well are upset by the ending! I suppose the moral of the game is: read the books.

So you're not alone: there is a certain amount of dissatisfaction with the game's ending, both amongst newcomers, and long-time enthusiasts, though the reasons vary.

---------- Updated at 05:12 PM ----------

Additionally, to an extent, once Geralt recovered his memory (all the information from the books, and beyond), at the end of Assassins of Kings, there's a bit of alienation for some of the 'game-familiar' audience: as the Witcher now knows what's going on, most of the supporting characters know, CD Projekt RED knows, some of the devoted fans know, but not everybody. Geralt's recovery from amnesia was a necessary, but also somewhat problematic, event in the games, for it allowed the story to progress, but it also uncovered a lot of vital knowledge in the protagonist's head; however, not all players were in a position to discover that information with him. This makes the third game difficult, for, while there are clues and references which we can pick up as we go, much remains veiled; as there's quite a bit of complex lore which cannot be covered in exposition, or even in-game books.

I actually timed everything pefectly, by accident of course; I played the first 2 games, some stuff I just didn't undestand but I loved them, so I read the book, all of them before starting witcher 3. So I kind of went along with Geralt: At first I was confused as shit but then I "regained my memory" at the same time he did!

So anyway, you say you are reading the books so I won't spoil anything. As some guy below mentioned (Rawls I think), I too didn't get Ciri's line the wrong way, it kind of goes with her character. Now as you said there are some people that are unsatisfied with the ending, having read the books or not... Personally I got the Ciri becomes Witcheress ending which I liked and agreed with. But the other "bittersweet" ending (where Ciri goes to Emhyr) was, in my opinion, wrong because they changed Ciri's character in a way that is not what Sapkowski wanted to get to his readers. For me, the message Sapkowski is trying to get through is that the most important things in life are friends and family. Throughout the game this adds on, Geralt cares for Ciri (and everyone else) and Ciri for Geralt... but if Ciri chooses to go with Emhyr it just doesn't add on. That's not who she is.

Anyway, another thing you mentioned is the White Frost: And yeah, the books are all about people wanting to do creapy stuff to Ciri because her child would be able to save the worlds from the white frost, they changed that however to make Ciri seem more powerful I guess, but in doing so they got rid of some good material for future games. I don't know, everyone should read the books cause they are great, but keep in mind that the games do alter or downright ignore some of the lore from the books, and it's confusing :what2:

 

[Riven-Twain]

I agree. She's (1) the "Lady of Space and Time," (2) the "Child of the Elder Blood," (3) the heir to the thones of Cintra and Nilfgaard, (4) a source, (5) a (admittely unskilled) sorceress, and (6) a person trained to fight by Witchers. She is the one who can effect the fate of the world. Compared to that, given the situation they were in, Geralt is "but a Witcher." And she says it with such lament. I thought it was very well done.

Good points to bear in mind, as I hadn't quite considered Ciri's remark as lamenting, or sorrowful for those reasons specifically. Thanks for drawing my attention to them. In hindsight, I believe that any annoyance the line caused me was largely conditioned by the sudden explosion of the plot at the climax. In my opinion, the story shifts rather abruptly at this point, becomes hard to follow precisely, and leaves some gaping holes in narrative information. These factors combined became rather frustrating, and thus the line, coming when it did, rather struck me the wrong way. Ignorance and oversight are not always the most pleasant personal admissions.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

Yeah, White Frost was a total b.s. I can't imagine who could have possibly decided it would be a good idea to put into the game, only for the last 5 minutes, with no explanation how Ciri dealt with it. Please, CDPR fellow fans, don't throw heavy objects at me, but concerning WF it was Mass Effect 3 ending, only even without a push of any button. Things just ... got resolved somehow. Ciri played a role of a Blue Kid and saved the world by some bleeping miracle. I would really prefer that the game wouldn't even mention WF at all, than to deal with it in a completely retarded way in the last second. It just looks like that part wasn't even written. May be we should ask for and extended ending, or something?
Well, I prefer to just forget about this WF disaster... and about final choices... and about Radovid's assassination. Just enjoying the rest of the game, you know.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

i was, the first time i had the worst possibl ending, and it was painful
but yeah, when ciri taks before entering the tower, she says very little and explains nothing, that dialog could have been way better,

 

[RichEdmonds]

I just didn't get it. Was a rather odd closing, which wasn't aided by the fact you were thrown back into the world soon after completion. That added to my feeling of "So, what just happened? White Frost? Where was it? Is it over? Has it simply stopped off for a bite to eat? When will we find out that "Eredin" was actually his super-weak (and quiet) younger brother, and the real Eredin is now coming at you for killing his sibling who tried to prove his worth?"

 

[Riven-Twain]

So, did you hear about this White Frost and White Light thing that was supposed to happen?
Yeah.
I didn't see it. Did you see it anywhere?
Nope. I missed it.
How come?
I blinked.

 

[Rawls]

I believe that any annoyance the line caused me was largely conditioned by the sudden explosion of the plot at the climax. In my opinion, the story shifts rather abruptly at this point, becomes hard to follow precisely, and leaves some gaping holes in narrative information. These factors combined became rather frustrating, and thus the line, coming when it did, rather struck me the wrong way.

This. All of this.

 

[jonataze]

I got the sad ending and it really threw me off guard. It was super emotional and I wasn't prepared for the feels. However now that i've calmed down and thought about it, I feel that it was a little unfair. I really helped Ciri and acted as a father figure to her, I don't understand why those actions gave me the bad ending, shouldn't supporting and helping her deal with her problems strengthen her resolve, her motives to fight?? I feel like I've been punished for being nice to her, but she is my daughter for gods sake. I really wish there could have been another consequence for my actions. Also I romanced Yennefer but there was no dialogue or anything after the White Frost. Suddenly I'm in the swamps of Velen. Why couldn't I go to her for support? I wanted more dialogue especially after the fight and overall importance of helping one another.

I wish CD Projekt Red could make an alternate ending based on my actions, i feel like I deserve better. If i would have been rude to Ciri and not helped her at all, then this ending would have made more sense since her mind is on all her problems during the confrontation with the White Frost. End of Rant

 

[BTorville]

Yeah, White Frost was a total b.s. I can't imagine who could have possibly decided it would be a good idea to put into the game, only for the last 5 minutes, with no explanation how Ciri dealt with it. Please, CDPR fellow fans, don't throw heavy objects at me, but concerning WF it was Mass Effect 3 ending, only even without a push of any button. Things just ... got resolved somehow. Ciri played a role of a Blue Kid and saved the world by some bleeping miracle. I would really prefer that the game wouldn't even mention WF at all, than to deal with it in a completely retarded way in the last second. It just looks like that part wasn't even written. May be we should ask for and extended ending, or something?
Well, I prefer to just forget about this WF disaster... and about final choices... and about Radovid's assassination. Just enjoying the rest of the game, you know.

Well, let's look at it this way. To that point, everything that happened in the game had some witness or other who could relate the tale, particularly when it happened to Ciri. All of the events that were shown in the game were either witnessed and told by Ciri herself, Dandelion (narrator), the Bloody Baron, the Crones, and Skajll.

But once she stepped through that portal at the end to face the White Frost, it was only Ciri. And unless she ever gets the urge to sit down and tell Geralt all about it so that we can learn what happened, or she tells Dandelion at some point and he writes a ballad about it, no one will ever learn what happened, how she was able to defeat it and how she managed to survive it all.

Makes sense to me. If we'd been able to play as her, that too would have made sense but since we were playing as Geralt watching her enter the portal, it's much better to just leave it at that. We aren't meant to know exactly what happened because no one was there to see it.

 

[scotlandii]

About the witcher line, I agree with what was said about it being partly in jest and partly in sorrow. Just leaving my two cents there, shows how she says "silly", and seems sad when saying it. Anyways here's to hoping that CDPR don't ditch the witcher series after the next 2 expansions. I know they're working on Cyberpunk 2077 but I'd be more interested in more story

 

[Phinnway]

Not really. Early on I understood that Ciri's attitude problem stemmed from her emotional struggle with the responsibility of being "the chosen one." Even though it's never stated explicitly it's pretty obvious that's what's going through her head. She is even prefigured by another 19 y/o with an attitude problem - the Red Barron's daughter.

As soon as she disappears after the battle with Eredin I knew exactly what was happening. When she said, "You're just a simple Witcher" I thought "Ouch! but that's kinda true!" Geralt is just a simple Witcher. That's a source of his strength. That's why he doesn't resent being a Witcher as much as some of the other guys. And that's part of what makes him the ideal father figure for Ciri; a girl with supernatural powers who needs supernatural parents to keep her in check.

 

[whitewoof]

First time player in the witcher games and only started reading the books after completing W3 (5th book now). I wasn't really caught off guard with the sudden inclusion of the dreaded mystical White Frost in the end, seeing how secretive Avallac'h is, I was always open to the idea that he would eventually betray the rest and sacrifice Ciri to save his home world or some other greater cause. Whole build up to the game hinted the only way to stop the White Frost (Soothsayer, Alvin's book and that Elf Yen and Geralt talked with thru the megascope) and begin a new better world was with the Elder blood, so i understood that as a literal blood sacrifice.

Was really expecting Geralt to choose between his daughter and the fate of the world in the end. So it caught me off guard that Ciri was working with Avallac'h all the while when there was no hint that she knew any of his plans (Child of Elder Blood quest etc), and (unless you played the overprotective and insensitive father) she survives the White Frost anyway. It kinda removes the tension and reduces the stakes significantly. Was really hoping that if Eredin was Darth Vader, Avallac'h would be Emperor Palpatine. Instead, this inanimate force of nature which is earth's equivalent of Global Warming, is the Emperor