Will intelligence affect dialogue?

[kofeiiniturpa]

Far to many people seem to assume CP2077 will be a Witcher 3 clone in terms of many (most?) of it's game mechanics, I don't. Why would it be? Or do people just assume CDPR is incapable of creating/implementing new/different game mechanics?

Well, it does kinda look that way.

- Almost as predifined character around whom a heavily scripted storyline flows.
- Enemies are handled the same.
- Companions are apparently handled the same.
- Weapons and gear are handled the same.
- The template for skilltrees is the same.
- Even combat looks pretty much the same inspite the move to guns.

It’s not that CDPR couldn’t do anything else, of course they could, but that they wouldn’t.

Their main audience is the Witcher fans, and they know it. They seem to be intent in throwing in just enough Cyberpunk to keep the most lenient CP fans happy and not drive the Witcher fans away. The biggest risk and deviation from their past formula, was the perspective.

That’s how it has to me since E3 2018, with almost every bit of new info strengthening that feel.

Obviously I don’t know how the game will feel hands on (although, I can make an educated guess based on what we know), but a good lot of things seem to point towards heavy familiarity with Witcher 3.

Some think that’s a good thing, others not so much. And some might think that me saying these things is a slight towards their fave dev in the whole world. It is a criticism, but not a slight; I think it’s marketing wise a solid plan, but also a terrible waste of opportunity to do something actually unique.

I hope I’m just making a fool of myself here and CDPR proves ne completely wrong. I’m not holding my breath for it, but... hopes and wishes and crossed fingers....

 

[Bloodartist]

Or do people just assume CDPR is incapable of creating/implementing new/different game mechanics?

Yes? They are pretty adamant on their concepts. Especially when related to gameplay such as character progression.

I certainly have no proof of the contrary.

 

[Suhiira]

- Almost as predifined character around whom a heavily scripted storyline flows.

There's no way around that in a story-centered RPG. It's impractical to the point of nearly impossible to write a story around a totally free-form character concept. To many options and branches.

- Enemies are handled the same.

And they're handled significantly differently in what game that isn't a PURE RPG or shooter?

- Companions are apparently handled the same.

I.E. the same way they're handled in 90% of games ... and this is for some reason a strike against CDPR?

- Weapons and gear are handled the same.

I.E. they way they're handled in 90% of looter/shooters? While I'd MUCH prefer the seem them handled the way they are in CP2020 that's not gonna happen, so classic looter/shooter is hardly unexpected.

- The template for skilltrees is the same.

Again, the say way they're handled in 90% of FPSs/shooters. You rellly hold not CDPR not re-inventing the the wheel as a strike against them?

- Even combat looks pretty much the same inspite the move to guns.

And one last time ... the same as it's handled in 90% of games?

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

There's no way around that in a story-centered RPG. It's impractical to the point of nearly impossible to write a story around a totally free-form character concept. To many options and branches.

It's actually possible, you just need to base your story around unavoidable stuff happening to a character outside of his control (what I call "Event based story").

 

[CyberBobber]

I'm actually under the opposite impression: That in C2077 gears and gun are everything that is important (because cyber doesn't have a drawback, and because weapons represent most of the skills while there is no "Personal Grooming" or "Wardrobe & Style" skills unlike in C2020).

Actually I wish that if one day they make a C2078, they put into the game all we were told at the very beginning of C2077 project (But realistically I think they will prefer to change which city we plays in and will sink most ressource in making a whole new open world environment just to not be called "lazy" by some peoples).

Sure, gears and guns are important. Think about Cop Forces, without right gears. guns and vehicles they are nothing. I don't want to go offtopic here, but I think Fashion/cool should have bigger impact on dialogues than intelligence, we don't want some nerdy universe right.

 

[Suhiira]

It's actually possible, you just need to base your story around unavoidable stuff happening to a character outside of his control (what I call "Event based story").

You may note I included the word "nearly" before "impossible".
Yes it can be done, but it's not cost/time efficient. And a reasonable profit is only fair for a developer (Note reasonable ... not E/A that wants to milk you for every cent they can).

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

...

So, CP will be a storycentered looter-shooter? And inevitably so, to boot?

How’s that different from Witcher 3, aside from turning shooting into slashing? How’s that a showcase of them ”being able to do different mechanics”? That was the point you objected to. But here you suddenly defend it as inevitable because 90-95% of action-shooters (possibly with ”rpg-elements”) do it.

I’m not completely on the map here anymore.

And as for holding something against CDPR, I don’t. I don’t hold anything against them as syrikes or what ever. They’re doing the game they wan’t and I think they are doing a fantastic job for what they are doing; I just think their specific approach to this particular game is not entirely on the right track and with just few deviations to the tried and true formula, things might be very different, yet not worse at all for it.

And this isn’t really about intelligence affecting dialog anymore either.

 

[Suhiira]

So, CP will be a storycentered looter-shooter?

Certainly looks like one to me.
Have you seen anything that indicates otherwise?

How’s that a showcase of them ”being able to do different mechanics”? That was the point you objected to. But here you suddenly defend it as inevitable because 90-95% of action-shooters (possibly with ”rpg-elements”) do it.

I've never said I was happy with what CP2077 seems to be, I'm merely willing to accept that it is what it is and try to make the best of it.

Hell, I'm pretty much a fangurl of both CDPR and Cyberpunk 2020, I want to love CP2077, and am doing my best to overlook it's many (MANY) flaws and do so.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Have you seen anything that indicates otherwise?

No.

I'm merely willing to accept that it is what it is

Ah, ok.

 

[Bloodartist]

So, CP will be a storycentered looter-shooter? And inevitably so, to boot?

Let me ask you a question: Are you surprised?

Because I wasn't expecting much else when Witcher 3 looks like this

I am not altogether opposed to the concept, but I do hope they cut down on the amount of chaff that clogs up our inventories. Its non-immersive, and overall a bother instead of something to enjoy. CDPR has clearly shown that they heavily favor classic game concepts such as loot, levels, and so on and so forth. Sure, they may introduce new stuff, but they still cling to the old stuff. Their name is a nod to old games printed on CD's, they have "good old games" which is all about enjoying the gems of the past, etc.

Does this make Witcher 3 a worse game? No.
Is it fun? No.

 

[Draconifors]

Back on topic, please.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Sure, gears and guns are important. Think about Cop Forces, without right gears. guns and vehicles they are nothing. I don't want to go offtopic here, but I think Fashion/cool should have bigger impact on dialogues than intelligence, we don't want some nerdy universe right.

Well, from what I understand it seems that they kind of took a "twitch gameplay" point of view about dialogues, so no stats really matters be it intelligence or cool.
To be more precise, things affecting dialogues seems to be only knowledges, not social abilities. V can learn the "What" but the "How" is either the player or part of what is already defined as being V (you cannot have a social butter V nor a wallflower V).

Actually the game seems to appeal in twitch gaming for everything as almost everything you can do in the game, dialogues included, failure or success is overwhelmingly dependent on player inputs.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

So, intelligence in dialog...

I don't suppose anyone expects (or expected) dumb dialog like Fallout had. The story is too strict for that and voice acting makes it unfeasible. Sort of a shame since you could absolutely make an interesting and well written open narrative for a character who is allowed to be almost anything the game can possibly allow him to be. Fallout and Fallout 2 are excellent examples of such narratives where there is an initial drive for the character to start going about and a conclusion to reach, but the story itself unfolds and builds itself as per what all you choose to engage with and how. Player agency at its maximum without sacrificing good storytelling and heartfelt moments. I remember people wanted to replay Fallout just to get a better ending for the parts they got a bad one, because they actually felt bad about making those choices. Not verbose or pompous, but rather simplistic and yet very impactful. That's how you make a narrative for an RPG.

But since intelligence isn't "intelligence" in its wholesome in CP2077, but rather more specifically projected intelligence (only related to skills, not so much the characters actual smarts), on top of the characters assumed, preset, intelligence, I would suppose some checks for logic responses would be in order.

Not stuff like "[Intelligece 8] So you fight the good fight with your voice on the radio?" or "[Engineering 6/5] That clearly custom rigged car is clearly custom rigged!" that simply exists to exist and "score points" by pointing out the obvious, but stuff that steers the conversation towards a certain direction. Things that are not wrong to be left unsaid (for example if you don't feel like being a smartass), but still have an influence on the outcome of the conversation... however subtle that may be.

 

[Suhiira]

But since intelligence isn't "intelligence" in its wholesome in CP2077, but rather more specifically projected intelligence (only related to skills, not so much the characters actual smarts), on top of the characters assumed, preset, intelligence, I would suppose some checks for logic responses would be in order.

Not stuff like "[Intelligece 8] So you fight the good fight with your voice on the radio?" or "[Engineering 6/5] That clearly custom rigged car is clearly custom rigged!" that simply exists to exist and "score points" by pointing out the obvious, but stuff that steers the conversation towards a certain direction. Things that are not wrong to be left unsaid (for example if you don't feel like being a smartass), but still have an influence on the outcome of the conversation... however subtle that may be.

At this point I'm still pretty unsure what, if anything ... other then player choice ... effects dialog.
We're pretty sure certain levels in certain skills will give us options to approach "mechanical" situations in different ways (i.e. do you pick the lock or bash the door down) but I don't recall seeing any indication that character stats have any effect on dialog options (there are some timed responses, but those are entirely player driven).

My impression is that CDPR is so concerned with a possible negative response from the action game crowd (from including character driven mechanics) they've totally avoided any such mechanics. You're the player, the player is in control, the "character" is nothing but an "avatar".

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

At this point I'm still pretty unsure what, if anything ... other then player choice ... effects dialog.

I have no idea either. At first CDPR said they don't want to lock dialog behind stats, that it's just about what you decide to say. Then went to "some" stats might offer a line here and there. And now they've just been blatantly advertising those checks.

I have no idea what the big picture about this is.

Post automatically merged: Dec 27, 2019

My impression is that CDPR is so concerned with a possible negative response from the action game crowd (from including character driven mechanics) they've totally avoided any such mechanics. You're the player, the player is in control, the "character" is nothing but an "avatar".

If that's the case, one has to wonder... why on earth did they opt to make an RPG in the first place.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

If that's the case, one has to wonder... why on earth did they opt to make an RPG in the first place.

Because RPG is once again a good tag to add to your single player games to make them sell more.
Or more seriously their vision of roleplay doesn't really includes crunch.

 

[Suhiira]

If that's the case, one has to wonder... why on earth did they opt to make an RPG in the first place.

Because any game that includes any semblance of player choice that in any way effects the story-line is an RPG ???

 

[Johnysh]

Yes, I think intelligence will affect dialogues. They talked not specifically about intelligence but about Body stat, but yes, they said it will affect even dialogues.

Body stat is supposed to make you more intimidating in dialogues. So I'm guessing other stats will have some effect too and intelligence seems kinda obvious.

 

[CyberBobber]

Yes, I think intelligence will affect dialogues. They talked not specifically about intelligence but about Body stat, but yes, they said it will affect even dialogues.

Body stat is supposed to make you more intimidating in dialogues. So I'm guessing other stats will have some effect too and intelligence seems kinda obvious.

Do you have link for these? I cant believe they did it old-school style.

 

[Johnysh]

Do you have link for these? I cant believe they did it old-school style.

https://ve.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_pw9lquEDAL1yncdcn.mp4 starts around 4:10