Melee combat, please have depth and make it just as engaging as the fps gameplay.

[Suhiira]

Yes. Shovels and combat knives are cheaper and more utilitarian. Melee combat only became rare in warfare after World War 2. That's why the combat dagger remains a common part of military equipment.

If you mean bayonet then yes, they're still a staple item. Not so much because anyone expects to "fix bayonets" but because of the general utility of a knife. But again, don't look at movies and video games as sources for their use as weapons vice tools. No one in their right mind goes into a gunfight armed with a melee weapon. (( This probably implies something about gamers that insist on melee in CP2077 :unsure: ))

 

[Snowflakez]

If you mean bayonet then yes, they're still a staple item. Not so much because anyone expects to "fix bayonets" but because of the general utility of a knife. But again, don't look at movies and video games as sources for their use as weapons vice tools. No one in their right mind goes into a gunfight armed with a melee weapon. (( This probably implies something about gamers that insist on melee in CP2077 :unsure: ))

We already know melee will be in 2077, and that it will be very viable, so I guess you're also saying that implies something about CDPR? Since they're the ones who are implementing the feature.

 

[Suhiira]

We already know melee will be in 2077, and that it will be very viable, so I guess you're also saying that implies something about CDPR? Since they're the ones who are implementing the feature.

They know their audience?

 

[EngryEngineer]

They know their audience?

I could see it going a little beyond that. Absolutely, in an open field going melee or hand to hand against gun wielding opponents is just the worst idea, but in covert ops having some way to quickly and quietly take out opponents you are trying to get the drop on its not a bad idea. If needing to smuggle it through a metal detector I'd probably feel better about a ceramic blade than a plastic gun, that feeling may not be accurate since plastics can be pretty sturdy and ceramic blades while sharp as all get out are also very brittle, but my primitive monkey brain says stone better than plastic.

Plus style counts for something, and on that front Monowhip beats Uzi every time.

 

[Snowflakez]

They know their audience?

Do you really think that's the reason they are implementing melee combat?

You don't think personal creativity and personal design choices factored in heavily?

Unless we believe CDPR is a trend follower like EA, Activision, or Ubisofts, it's probably not a half-bad idea to assume their decisions were made because they think they will improve the game, not because they are trying to pander or cater to someone.

 

[4meg]

I worry about combat microtransactions. Mid-strike a popup appears 'Would you like to purchase a to-hit guarantee? Only 15€$'*

*Not really.

 

[BaalNergal]

If you mean bayonet then yes, they're still a staple item. Not so much because anyone expects to "fix bayonets" but because of the general utility of a knife. But again, don't look at movies and video games as sources for their use as weapons vice tools. No one in their right mind goes into a gunfight armed with a melee weapon. (( This probably implies something about gamers that insist on melee in CP2077 :unsure: ))

No, I mean combat dagger. The standard military combat knife is a dagger that is also useful for things like cutting rope, and not all of the ones currently in use can be used as bayonets. Also, the U.S. military sometimes issues tomahawks (I am not kidding) due to their deadliness both at a range and in melee and the fact they have so many uses outside of combat (like cutting small brush).

And, yes, most modern militaries arm soldiers with melee weapons when they go into ranged fights in addition to their guns. Running out of ammunition, getting ambushed, and suicide chargers still happen. Sometimes, you simply can't shoot everyone running at your position no matter how many bullets you have, and it helps to be able to deal with them in close combat without wasting ammunition better used on their more distant buddies.

There's a reason why "military intelligence" is sometimes referred to as an oxymoron by experienced soldiers.

 

[Suhiira]

Do you really think that's the reason they are implementing melee combat?

The only reason?
Of course not.
The primary reason.
Definitely.

Ask anyone who's had combat experience, on either side, how often melee occurs.

Police, a bit different.
Most times if a perp has a melee weapon they just shoot them ... thus no melee combat.

No, I mean combat dagger. The standard military combat knife is a dagger that is also useful for things like cutting rope, and not all of the ones currently in use can be used as bayonets. Also, the U.S. military sometimes issues tomahawks (I am not kidding) due to their deadliness both at a range and in melee and the fact they have so many uses outside of combat (like cutting small brush).

My apologies, I assumed something I shouldn't have.

Yeah, I carried a USAF Survival Knife (preferred it to the K-Bar) and once they were invented a Leatherman myself. And often a Bolo Knife (they make a great hatchet substitute, and are FAR more useful for chopping brush then a hatchet).
Virtually everyone carried one sort of knife or another (aside from the issue bayonet). But just because everyone had a knife doesn't mean anyone realistically expected to get into some sort of melee or hand-to-hand combat.

 

[jervi]

I guess I'm just worried that either the game will become Street Fighter 2077 and/or there will be sacrifices elsewhere that I won't like all for the sake of something that I personally consider a borderline-anachronistic niche interest. I never bothered with Tekken, Mortal Kombat, or the rest of that genre because it holds no interest for me. And while I acknowledge that, at the sort of ranges many engagement happen at (7m or less IRL; adjust accordingly for cyber reflexes), a melee combatant can get the drop on a person with a holstered gun with relative ease, I also question how much time and effort it's worth sinking into turning something I rarely did in Deus Ex or Metal Gear Solid into something complicated enough that I will actively avoid.

 

[Suhiira]

And while I acknowledge that, at the sort of ranges many engagement happen at (7m or less IRL; adjust accordingly for cyber reflexes), a melee combatant can get the drop on a person with a holstered gun with relative ease, <clip>

Very true, but if you're getting ambushed and you do have a melee weapon and the skill to use it the exact same logic applies.

If you've caught your opponent unaware it really doesn't matter what you, or they, are armed with (and to a significant extent how (un)skilled either of you is). Chances are they're toast.

 

[BaalNergal]

And while I acknowledge that, at the sort of ranges many engagement happen at (7m or less IRL; adjust accordingly for cyber reflexes), a melee combatant can get the drop on a person with a holstered gun with relative ease, I also question how much time and effort it's worth sinking into turning something I rarely did in Deus Ex or Metal Gear Solid into something complicated enough that I will actively avoid.

It doesn't require cybernetics, enhanced reflexes, or anything like that and can be done with your enemy having a firearm drawn and ready while aware you're in the area. It just requires good tactics, the right terrain, and knowing how to not make enough noise to be easily heard. This is a major reason why the military doctrine of trying to control the battlefield evolved, and why even today soldiers are required to take melee combat training.

Keep in mind modern warfare relies a lot more on mobility, battlefield control, and terrain advantage maximization. The idea two parties are just going to entrench and shoot at each other is very much not how modern battles are fought, so for the most part there is going to be very little of that seven meters a single person will actually control. Thus how someone can sneak around and knife a guy with a gun.

It's also a reason why urban combat zones are a bit of a nightmare for soldiers.

I agree on the time and effort question. If most players are not going to use it, it wouldn't be worth the development time. But, it comes down to predicting the reactions of most players.

 

[Suhiira]

This is a major reason why the military doctrine of trying to control the battlefield evolved, and why even today soldiers are required to take melee combat training.

To a large extent melee/unarmed combat training in the military is there as a confidence builder not because anyone really expects to actually use it.

 

[ac01yte]

Well, it's a lot easier to have a concealed Melee implant than something that takes ammo. Also, melee weapons in general are a lot less problematical when running into law enforcement.

There are many reasons people wouldn't carry guns unless expecting trouble. Go into a nightclub, for example, or an office building. Very likely to get any guns taken away. Well, any weapons, really, but cyber melee weapons would be hard to detect if they were designed for such.

Also consider that shooting a gang member in the head gets the gang on you - punching them in the head and knocking them out gets that member laughed at. They might come after you, the gang is less likely to. On jobs murder gets much more heat on you than assault.

Lots of reasons for melee.

- Shane

 

[BaalNergal]

To a large extent melee/unarmed combat training in the military is there as a confidence builder not because anyone really expects to actually use it.

Wanna bet? I can also find another example, though sadly that one is tragic. And a third that survived an enemy playing dead because he had his knife. And those are just the notable examples from a Google search.

So, yes. Melee combat has a place in modern warfare. I don't see that changing once cyberware is around.

 

[Snowflakez]

The only reason?
Of course not.
The primary reason.
Definitely.

Ask anyone who's had combat experience, on either side, how often melee occurs.

I'm not asking what you think is realistic, I'm asking whether or not you think CDPR is implementing melee specifically to please a portion of their audience. In other words, are they just pandering for sales?

Me... I don't think so. I think they're doing it because this is a video game and melee combat is fun in general, so maybe they want to do it because they think it'll make for a better game.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I sincerely doubt using melee as a solution to every combat situation will be viable. Not in a world with firearms. About the only way it could work is if the character was doing some type of stealth/ambush approach to combat. Even then, in a world with firearms, a character focused toward combat would likely have a firearm at some point. There is just no reason to stick exclusively to sticks when you have relatively simple to use stones capable of mortally harming your fellow human at a distance.

How it should be implemented is a good question. Quick, brutal and simplistic has a large element of realism to it. Going for realism and retaining some degree of skill is difficult in a video game (most elements making it quick, brutal and simple are hard to replicate on a controller or keyboard/mouse). As an RPG in a futuristic setting I'd honestly see no problem if the melee combat sacrificed much of the skill elements to achieve greater immersion/realism.

 

[exogenesis09]

To think that the game is a First Person Perspective RPG Game. All I could think of near the combat is imagining of what V:TM in first person which is actually fast paced with newly improve systems like cover system, wall running, hacking, environment combat interaction and seamless interaction like Uncharted 4 in First Person. Combining all that in my brain looks unimaginable to fit it all in First Person Perspective.

I could imagine it better with both FPP w/ TPP mixed in combat but thinking it for only First Person in combat. It doesn’t seem to work or exist yet for me to agree it’s going to be great in FPP. Which actually excites me a lot and how CDPR going to pull this off. I’m so braindead right now. I need a 10 sec combat gameplay to fully judge it. I hope they going to show some in Gamescom though. Making people to wait for the gameplay is slowly dying some fans hype as CDPR was only great at developing of RPG and has some flaws in combat based from the game Witcher 3. They really need to clear this out as early as possible.

 

[Suhiira]

Wanna bet?

I don't recall EVER saying it never happened.
Only that it's very VERY rare.

 

[Suhiira]

In other words, are they just pandering for sales?

Definitely not.
But far to many gamers expect melee, they HAVE to include it.

I'd just like to see them do so in a relatively realistic manner, the way it's done in CP2020.
But frankly I don't expect it. CP2020 is far to lethal to permit significant amounts of melee/unarmed. Sure, there ARE situations where it's viable, and damn useful. But as your primary combat method?
No.

 

[jervi]

I'd just like to see them do so in a relatively realistic manner, the way it's done in CP2020.
But frankly I don't expect it. CP2020 is far to lethal to permit significant amounts of melee/unarmed. Sure, there ARE situations where it's viable, and damn useful. But as your primary combat method?
No.

Also bear in mind that console players have only a few buttons to play with, so they can't go as in-depth as you would with a game that doesn't even really have dialog boxes, inventory management, or any of the other things that you never had to deal with in Tekken.