Is there really nothing we can do ? This thing made the game literally unplayable for all of us. What did we pay for ? I dont care for they break of christmas man. If my Christmas is ruined because of this, does anyone care ?
Wrong. There is no sure way to know what is happening with inventory state / Items-ID DB in save as long as there is no save editor.If you didn't encounter the issue just yet and are still early enough to adjust your gameplay the behaviour to have is to pick up and craft the minimum items possible.
Try to avoid stackable items (like grenades) as much as possible.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, progressing in the main quest causes the file to naturally bloat (and side quests probably have the same effect) so, it's technically nothing to be worry about as long as we're very picky on looting/crafting.
Am I getting that right?
In this regard I also don't think that HelloGames' behaviour was the right one. Also, CDPR had a different behaviour one week earlier, which would make shift harder to sell. (I haven't followed the story of HelloGames, maybe it is perfectly applicable in this situation, maybe there are differences.) Also, they already released some kind of statement through a proxy, stating that the limit might be increased. But we shall see what the future brings.I agree with everything you said, which is why I say it's in no way an excuse for their actions. A statement would not be too much to ask, and is a 100% reasonable request.
The reason why I compare it to No Mans Sky was because these same demands were being made. People wanted answers as to why the game was missing a good chunk of advertised features, and why there were really bad bugs and stability issues at launch. I bring it up because HelloGames did NOT respond to ANY demands for ANYTHING. Not a single word from HelloGames for MONTHS. The lead of HG, Sean Murray, redirected ALL of their social media accounts to his device and told the devs to essentially ignore everything you see online and work on fixing the game.
Over time, instead of using their social media account to make statements, they started pumping out updates to the game instead. Eventually reversing the state of the game in such a way that the product you get now is almost completely unrecognizable from the product that was released.
I only bring it up because, it's possible that we could get no word from them about these issues, and instead just see them fix the issues like HelloGames did. I am trying to discourage people from seeing no response from CDPR now as the end all be all of the situation and assuming that they are never going to fix the issue or are not taking the players seriously.
Yes, please! They should enjoy their holidays and recharge their batteries. We should be able to live without CP2077 for a few weeks, but also please include it in the January fix.Again, I agree that a statement would be 100% an easy thing to do, and is not at all an unreasonable request. I just don't want people to set this expectation that they are going to revoke christmas break in order to fix these issues. We're pretty much locked into this until January.
Don't take this personally, but your Christmas shouldn't be ruined because of that. Sure, you can be disappointed, that's perfectly reasonable, but there are other things to do an to enjoy.Is there really nothing we can do ? This thing made the game literally unplayable for all of us. What did we pay for ? I dont care for they break of christmas man. If my Christmas is ruined because of this, does anyone care ?
Perhaps I'm misreading things but it appears the only people having this issue are those using item duplication glitches? And those purposely creating thousands of the same items (for currency I guess)?I just wait for CDPR PR guys turn this into advertisement :
"We put so much content into the game that even saves cant contain it all!"
Please read the entire thread (I know it's long) but this is not the case.Perhaps I'm misreading things but it appears the only people having this issue are those using item duplication glitches? And those purposely creating thousands of the same items (for currency I guess)?
So the likelihood that any normal player would get this issue is pretty miniscule in that context, yes?
It sucks for those that have gone down that route already and should absolutely be fixed ASAP. But I think it makes sene to clarify the magnitude of the issue. This doesn't seem like 99.999% of people would ever have this issue. Am I wrong thinking this?
Is there really nothing we can do ? This thing made the game literally unplayable for all of us. What did we pay for ? I dont care for they break of christmas man. If my Christmas is ruined because of this, does anyone care ?
Yes you are....Perhaps I'm misreading things but it appears the only people having this issue are those using item duplication glitches? And those purposely creating thousands of the same items (for currency I guess)?
So the likelihood that any normal player would get this issue is pretty miniscule in that context, yes?
It sucks for those that have gone down that route already and should absolutely be fixed ASAP. But I think it makes sense to clarify the magnitude of the issue. This doesn't seem like 99.999% of people would ever have this issue. Am I wrong thinking this?
I unironically enjoyed Genshin Impact more than CP77 in its current stateJust try WoW, I've heard that keeps people busy^^ (Just kidding)
In this regard I also don't think that HelloGames' behaviour was the right one. Also, CDPR had a different behaviour one week earlier, which would make shift harder to sell. (I haven't followed the story of HelloGames, maybe it is perfectly applicable in this situation, maybe there are differences.) Also, they already released some kind of statement through a proxy, stating that the limit might be increased. But we shall see what the future brings.
However, one thing I would also like to note. I do work in software development and I have noticed that issues that are complained about more heavily are fixed faster than maybe larger issues nobody complains about. So, posting here might help after all.
Don't put too much faith in the modding community in this regard. There might be an underlying engine related issue that's not easy to fix or workaround. Modders don't have access to the source code of the Red Engine, nor is it under normal circumstances possible to change the way a game saves. Creating a savegame mechanic like CP2077 is apparently really complex, which is why many games do it differently. (AC for instance just saves your progress.)I have more faith in modding community for providing a quick fix to the issue simply because... Devs have a really bad time atm, lot of stress and disputes with the leadership (according to sources like jason schreier), and it's christmas time. After crunching so hard they deserve a time off. We on the other hand are on our time off so we can pick it up and try our best for a temporary solution.
This is urgent issue, so I do want them to fix it eventually, but they're people too, and I'm certain they've been exhausted lately.
Most of this is true. However this 8MB save limit doesn't seem to be directly engine limitation.I've been following this post, silently, since the beginning and refreshing it every day, reading the input here. THere's a lot of good information here, however, I feel like everyone was so quick to dismiss Sigilfey for his hot take about how to work around the issue, that they failed to even consider the valuable information he provided in one of his responses. I know a lot of people want to hate on the mods and the company right now, but, anyone interested in the history of this issue should read this.
Sigilfey linked to a post from The Witcher 3 forums made in 2017 that highlights the extensive testing done to uncover why saved games were going corrupt. Back then, they weren't hitting a size limit, but, they were hitting something else just as terminal, and it all stems from the REDengines handling of itemIDs. Back then, during the testing, the user that did all of this testing called this a runestone bomb, because it was best duplicated with runestones.
In The Witcher 3, the REDengine assigns a unique itemID for every single item you come across, even swords that are the same sword with the same stats, even stackable items. Every runestone got it's own itemID. The engine didn't see a stack of 1000 runestones as one item stacked 1000 times, but a stack of 1000 unique itemIDs. This is only part of the problem. Another issue the engine has, is, whenever you get rid of items, or keep them in your inventory whatever, every time you save and reload your game, that stack of 1000 runestones? It got 1000 MORE unique itemIDs, and the old itemIDs were not released from your save file inventory. They existed as ghost items.
So what players in The Witcher 3 were running in to, was an issue where, over time and after hoarding everything not nailed down, their save would surpass the 16bit integer used for itemIDs, which is 65,536. When this happened, your save would be corrupted because it would cause an itemID overflow, rendering the save file unreadable.
It's important to know about the history of this issue because I believe it plays a critical role in the current issue we're having now. Players who are getting corrupted saves smaller than 8MB are potentially surpassing the 65,536 limit for itemIDs on their saves, rendering their saves unreadable. Everyone else is hitting the max file size for saves, as noted in earlier posts where the EOF is not being written to the save file, like it magically gets cut off.
The problem, is that every unique itemID is causing save file bloat. The solution is obviously some kind of garbage collector process that removes these ghost itemIDs attached to our character inventories.
However, CDPR has known about this issue, because it was brought to their attention during The Witcher3 days, and yet the issue persisted when they improved REDengine 3 to 4. Why? Both answers will likely make your heart sink.
Either they CAN'T fix it, because it's some kind of inherent flaw tied to the engine that will completely break the way it handles inventory, or, they WON'T fix it, because doing so would cause irreparable harm to the way the inventory system functions, so much so that it would cost them a lot of time and money to fix, more so than correcting the issues on console.
I don't believe this issue was left in maliciously. I believe that, if they were even aware of this issue, they never imagined that people would either 1.) Hit the save file size limit, or 2.) Would exceed the 65,536 itemID limit. While it's short-sighted, again, I don't believe this is a malicious thing. I believe there's a reason for why the engine handles itemIDs this way, and I also believe that there's a reason why this issue has persisted since the days of TW3, maybe even earlier.
All of this is a hypothesis based on the testing done in the post SigilFey linked to way earlier in this post. You can find that post HERE and I would advise anyone and everyone read this post, because I believe this engine related issue is at the very core of what is going on.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Then, there's no need for you to follow it. Go ahead, and keep on loading saved games as you will. If the bug is occurring during the loading process, as opposed to the saving process, then you'll eventually corrupt all of your saved games and have absolutely no backups to return to, ensuring all of your progress is lost. That is entirely your choice.
Secondly, this is not official CDPR Tech Support. This is a community board where players can come to check on known issues or try to troubleshoot problems on their own. If that's not working out, then let me repeat, yet again:
Technical Support — CD PROJEKT RED
Welcome to CD PROJEKT RED Technical Support! Here you will find help regarding our games and services, as well as answers to frequently asked questions.support.cdprojektred.com
Please, read the appropriate FAQ section to the end, ensuring all suggestions have been followed. If the problems persist, you can use the "Contact Us" link to send in a ticket.
Be sure to include your system (including specs if on PC), a brief description of the issue, and the steps taken to reproduce it (if applicable).
Right -- now here's a reality of the way that inventory systems work sometimes. (TW3 has a similar sort of limitation.) Whenever you create an item in the inventory, it creates an ItemID. For every new instance of that item (like if the number of that item changes...or I pick up two of the same type of gun) the game will need to assign a unique ItemID for it in order for the program to be able to tell the two different items apart or record the change to the stack, and that number, for each successive instance, will obviously get bigger.
So, if I am rapidly adding / removing items from my inventory, I may inadvertently increase that ID number to something that the engine no longer recognizes. Or a number that conflicts with some other function of the inventory. Or save system. Or loading system. Whatever. Something doesn't like it. That's where the bug must live.
BUT -- considering that CP2077 probably works similarly to TW3, Bethesda games, Bioware titles, etc. -- this also happens to your inventory whenever you save --> reload a game. First, the game reads your save file. It loads an "active" version of your inventory into RAM, and assigns new ItemIDs to every single piece of your inventory from top to bottom. It re-saves those larger numbers for every new save / quicksave, and they become the new default. This is how a program can correctly load older savegames. It compares the newer numbers with the older ones, and chooses the older, smaller number instead. (Computers can't "think", and items in your inventory are not "guns" and "medkits" to the computer. They're collections of data that it needs to be able to tell apart from one another using a numerical expression.)
Not all games are designed for unlimited, endless play. Not all games are designed for NG++++ etc. CP2077, as of now, seems to have been designed with upper limits in place (likely to avoid issues elsewhere in the engine, just like TW3).
The workaround for now?
Don't do it. Play the game until the end, then start a new game. Don't continue saving and reloading the same character for too long. Don't craft thousands of items at once.
Is that ideal? No. And hopefully it can be worked out in the future. Although...maybe not. No game that CDPR has ever created has ever been designed for ongoing, unlimited play. (NG+ was added into TW3 after its release; it was never intended. It was extremely difficult to get working without major issues, is capped at level 100, still gets wildly weird at higher levels, and there is no NG++. It can only be done once per playthrough.) CDPR designs their games with a finite structure: with a beginning, a middle, and an end. They are not meant to be played on and on like Dark Souls, GTA, or an MMO. They're meant to be restarted from the beginning with a new character and played differently. Love it or loathe it, that's the design.
So, for right now, the best step is not to put the game in this sort of situation. It's the nature of the machine. Or, more classically:
Patient: "Doctor! Doctor! It really hurts when I do this!"
Doctor: "Then, don't do that."
Now, the treatment can begin.
The question isn't whether or not they can fix it. It's about whether they actually want to fix it.We need to at least give them the chance to fix this.