Enhanceable Weapons and Armor

[thewarsend]

Being able to fully customize armor and weapons would be amazing.. You should be able to paint your weapons and armor (and be able to dye your clothes perhaps), be able to cut your shotguns in half to turn them into a sawed-off shotguns, shortening or lengthening your rifle, smg and pistol barrels, modify your weapon to fire higher or lower caliber ammo, even be able to engrave your weapons.. (At least some weapons, like revolvers) And perhaps with high enough tech skill, even being able to upgrade/enhance inner mechanisms of the weapon as well.... In order to get faster rate of fire, be able to change between semi-auto and full-auto and stuff like that, as far as i know no other game has done that before.. (For instance, you can take a regular Colt 1911 and turn it into burst-fire or full-auto..)

I love it how even the smallest modifications can change the appearance of a weapon drastically:

AK-47:

Beretta:

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I've been thinking about armour today, particularly types of armour and how they work.

Obviously, 2020 had hard and soft armour and they are well documented. But within those two basic forms, there are different ways to make the armour work.

Composites use layers of different materials to resist the impact. These materials can quite expensive and difficult to repair. They certainly would not be easy to repair in the field.

There is also 'ablative' armour which uses its layers of cheap replaceable materials to absorb the impact, and they are quickly become damaged in the process.

I think these two principles could work well in 2077. Composite armour could provide better overall protection and take less damage over time, but it could also be very difficult to repair, (or even impossible,) in the field. Meanwhile, ablative armour segments could offer a cheap and easily replaced alternative.

 

[thewarsend]

I've been thinking about armour today, particularly types of armour and how they work.

Obviously, 2020 had hard and soft armour and they are well documented. But within those two basic forms, there are different ways to make the armour work.

Composites use layers of different materials to resist the impact. These materials can quite expensive and difficult to repair. They certainly would not be easy to repair in the field.

There is also 'ablative' armour which uses its layers of cheap replaceable materials to absorb the impact, and they are quickly become damaged in the process.

I think these two principles could work well in 2077. Composite armour could provide better overall protection and take less damage over time, but it could also be very difficult to repair, (or even impossible,) in the field. Meanwhile, ablative armour segments could offer a cheap and easily replaced alternative.

Many different kind of materials should be available for that.. Both cheap and expensive.. Like kevlar, carbon nano-tubes, titanium, tungsten, boron carbide, light steel and so on.. And you should be able to multilayer materials. (Like titanium coated with kevlar..)

 

[Hoplite_22]

Many different kind of materials should be available for that.. Both cheap and expensive.. Like kevlar, carbon nano-tubes, titanium, tungsten, boron carbide, light steel and so on.. And you should be able to multilayer materials. (Like titanium coated with kevlar..)

Titanium coated with Kevlar? surely you want NNL and graphine/mono molecular carbon (NNL would be a Non Newtonian Liquid, stiffens on impact) also i'm pretty sure you would have to laminate titanium with kevlar, you Robocop fan you.

 

[thewarsend]

Titanium coated with Kevlar? surely you want NNL and graphine/mono molecular carbon (NNL would be a Non Newtonian Liquid, stiffens on impact) also i'm pretty sure you would have to laminate titanium with kevlar, you Robocop fan you.

The point was to have more than just one materiel for armor plates.. And to have an option to use more than one layer for extra protection.. (Like one layer of tungsten and one layer of steel) It was not a question of best materiel for armor.. Even so, "carbon nano-tubes" are better than the materials you listed.. (But i do like Robocop, so you'll get points for that..)

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

My point wasn't so much 'what' materials are used, (though a good range of them would be great,) but 'how' the materials are used.

Take Metalgear as an example: It's made from high grade polymer alloys and ceramic composites. It's the dogs bollocks of 'affordable' personal armour. It offers the same protection as the military stuff, (if the military gear has the alloy inserts,) at less encumberance. But the articulated segments would be harder to repair and replace than the inserts in the military issue armour.

I'm thinking about options for the players. If you are doing a quick 'in and out' op, then solid armour that offers high protection and low encumberance is ideal. But if you know you are in for a long fight its probably worth using similar armour to the goons you will be fighting and learning to place your shots better to preserve the enemies armour plates so you can swap them put with yours when they are screwed.

It's all about trade offs.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I think this will be a good example of customisation options I would like to see, lets take a look at;

The MP5

It is a varied and adaptable platform. It comes in many, many variants, (30 official ones to be precise.) These can, however, be largely broken down into three core designs:

The full size MP5
The integrally Silenced MP5SD
And
The compact MP5K

Now, each of these variants comes with a range of trigger assemblies, pistol grips, fore grips, rail systems, stock types, harness clips and magazine sizes. They also come chanbered in various calibres and can have barrels ftted with lugs for barrel attachments like silencers, (well, except for the SD models.)
On top of all that, they can also be supplied in a range of finishes!

And then the MP5K has the particularly awesome option of being mounted inside a brief case for covert operations.

I rather like this rail system:

And I love the custom work done to this bad boy:

 

[blank_redge]

And I love the custom work done to this bad boy:

...WOW. That's nuts. Never would've even occurred to me to scrimshaw a submachine gun.

As far as customizable weaponry, we're seeing it in arcade-y console games nowadays (GTA 5, Army of Two, etc.)

Though, if even a moderate amount of customization is included, I'm curious as to how it'd factor in to weapon carry / weapon drawing animations (provided there's animations for holstering / drawing weapons, and your character doesn't just magically equip a weapon from thin air.)

 

[Mikedudeh]

Love the idea of multiple upgrade routes as opposed to the one way street of most games. It would be cool to see a few standard upgrades, like stocks and scopes, be available across multiple gun types instead of each weapon having its corresponding modifications like new vegas.

 

[blank_redge]

Within a class of weapon (SMGs, for example,) you could re-use the same model for accessories, amongst different gun models. So, you could have a few options for stocks, a few options for suppressors, and a few options for sights within the SMG class, all useable within that same class.

 

[Mikedudeh]

The same with armor too. Armor should be modular so I can which out pieces I like better. For example if I think the shoulders on a cool torso piece are too bulky I could switch it for something sleeker, and if I want to remove the sleeves entirely and have a vest I could do that too. Doing this I could conceivably keep a low level armor much farther into the game if I get attached.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Though, if even a moderate amount of customization is included, I'm curious as to how it'd factor in to weapon carry / weapon drawing animations (provided there's animations for holstering / drawing weapons, and your character doesn't just magically equip a weapon from thin air.)

Well, they did a good job on TW1 + TW2, I imagine they have done a good job on TW3, so I am hopeful for a realistic and visually pleasing effort in CP2077.

Love the idea of multiple upgrade routes as opposed to the one way street of most games. It would be cool to see a few standard upgrades, like stocks and scopes, be available across multiple gun types instead of each weapon having its corresponding modifications like new vegas.

Within a class of weapon (SMGs, for example,) you could re-use the same model for accessories, amongst different gun models. So, you could have a few options for stocks, a few options for suppressors, and a few options for sights within the SMG class, all useable within that same class.

Well, not all 'add-ons' are universal in real life. Stocks, moderators, compensators and magazines are often specific to firearm models, (unless there is some custom work done to the weapon by a gunsmith,) though 'rail attatchments' should be fully interchangeable.

As far as magazines go, 2020 didn't seem to have any STANAG system going, unlike real life. So I am not sure about how CDPR may or may not approach that type of interchanability. Personally, I want to see weapons be dependant on loaded magazines rather than 'loose ammo pools' like so many other games.

The same with armor too. Armor should be modular so I can which out pieces I like better. For example if I think the shoulders on a cool torso piece are too bulky I could switch it for something sleeker, and if I want to remove the sleeves entirely and have a vest I could do that too. Doing this I could conceivably keep a low level armor much farther into the game if I get attached.

Well, some armour should be modular, though some should be set peices. For instance; Flak Vests are just vests, so you would need to find alternatives to cover shoulders, legs and arms. That being said, there may be some peices that are designed to be added to that specific vest type. On the other hand, Metalgear is designed to be a modular 'clamshell', so that should break down in its constituant parts quite nicely.

 

[Mikedudeh]

Vests... Hm... I hope you can wear armor over clothing. Wonder how difficult that is clipping/3d model wise.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Vests... Hm... I hope you can wear armor over clothing. Wonder how difficult that is clipping/3d model wise.

Well, I hope there will be both covert and overt armour, so some can be worn under as well as over clothing.

 

[blank_redge]

Well, not all 'add-ons' are universal in real life.

Of course. I'm thinking of this from a coding standpoint. It'd be easier to recycle models from a pool of available models, than it would be to create specific models for each individual firearm.

While it'd be UNBELIEVABLY cool if each firearm had modifications modeled specifically for them, I wouldn't hold out hope for a wide array of weapons, if that were the case.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Of course. I'm thinking of this from a coding standpoint. It'd be easier to recycle models from a pool of available models, than it would be to create specific models for each individual firearm.

While it'd be UNBELIEVABLY cool if each firearm had modifications modeled specifically for them, I wouldn't hold out hope for a wide array of weapons, if that were the case.

Point taken.

In fairness, I can see a fair few things being interchangeable, but many of the modifications probably wouldn't need a model change at all.

Oh, and the first person to complain that they can't fit new stocks on bullpups needs shooting in the head.

 

[thewarsend]

Point taken.

In fairness, I can see a fair few things being interchangeable, but many of the modifications probably wouldn't need a model change at all.

Oh, and the first person to complain that they can't fit new stocks on bullpups needs shooting in the head.

Well, when i make a modification to my weapon, i want to see it, even if its just a simple texture change.. But i see your point..

 

[Suhiira]

I've been thinking about armour today, particularly types of armour and how they work.

Obviously, 2020 had hard and soft armour and they are well documented. But within those two basic forms, there are different ways to make the armour work.

Composites use layers of different materials to resist the impact. These materials can quite expensive and difficult to repair. They certainly would not be easy to repair in the field.

There is also 'ablative' armour which uses its layers of cheap replaceable materials to absorb the impact, and they are quickly become damaged in the process.

I think these two principles could work well in 2077. Composite armour could provide better overall protection and take less damage over time, but it could also be very difficult to repair, (or even impossible,) in the field. Meanwhile, ablative armour segments could offer a cheap and easily replaced alternative.

For all intents and purposes no armor is repairable in the field.
Now between missions at home base, given the proper materials, tools, and skills is another story.

"Hard" armors can be repaired by swapping damaged plates for new ones. But no one is going to lug a bag of spare plates and tools around on a mission, nor are they likely to have 5, 10, 30 minutes to sit around performing repairs.
"Soft" armors on the other hand probably require replacement rather then repair. Say your Kevlar vest has taken a couple hits - the Kevlar weave has broken/damaged fibers and any backing material (to diffuse the impact) has also been damaged. You're going to what? Reweave the vest with new fibers?
Composite armors (usually "soft" armor with "hard" plates in strategic/vital areas are sort of 50/50. If ONLY an impact plate has been damaged it can be replaced, but if you took the hit in the "soft" portions of the armor it would need replacement.

I suspect Cyberpunk 2077 won't go into great detail with regard to hit/armor locations, tho I'd be overjoyed if they did. So I suspect you'll just have an over-all armor rating. In fact I'd be a bit surprised if they actually differentiated between "hard" and "soft" armors.
As an example a tank is "hard" armor. Up to a certain point it's impervious to impacts, you could spend all day bouncing rifle bullets off one and other then giving the crew a headache not accomplish a thing. Whereas say a sandbag is "soft" (and ablative) armor. Shoot at it long enough with a BB gun and you will eventually punch thru (simply because you'll destroy the bag and the sand itself will run out).

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

Well, when i make a modification to my weapon, i want to see it, even if its just a simple texture change.. But i see your point..

Things like stocks, grips, barrel weights, suppressors, flash hiders, sights, bigger mags and paint would obviously need to change the model in my opinion.

But things like match triggers, selective firing, heavier/lighter bolts and that sort if thing would require no visual representation.

For all intents and purposes no armor is repairable in the field.
Now between missions at home base, given the proper materials, tools, and skills is another story.

"Hard" armors can be repaired by swapping damaged plates for new ones. But no one is going to lug a bag of spare plates and tools around on a mission, nor are they likely to have 5, 10, 30 minutes to sit around performing repairs.
"Soft" armors on the other hand probably require replacement rather then repair. Say your Kevlar vest has taken a couple hits - the Kevlar weave has broken/damaged fibers and any backing material (to diffuse the impact) has also been damaged. You're going to what? Reweave the vest with new fibers?
Composite armors (usually "soft" armor with "hard" plates in strategic/vital areas are sort of 50/50. If ONLY an impact plate has been damaged it can be replaced, but if you took the hit in the "soft" portions of the armor it would need replacement.

I suspect Cyberpunk 2077 won't go into great detail with regard to hit/armor locations, tho I'd be overjoyed if they did. So I suspect you'll just have an over-all armor rating. In fact I'd be a bit surprised if they actually differentiated between "hard" and "soft" armors.
As an example a tank is "hard" armor. Up to a certain point it's impervious to impacts, you could spend all day bouncing rifle bullets off one and other then giving the crew a headache not accomplish a thing. Whereas say a sandbag is "soft" (and ablative) armor. Shoot at it long enough with a BB gun and you will eventually punch thru (simply because you'll destroy the bag and the sand itself will run out).

I figured that there may be some sort if duct tape for armour repairs by 2077. Or maybe a spray can of some kind.

And my vest had soft inserts that could be replaced in about 2 minutes. I am sure current military grade 4 to 5 vests can swap plates quickly.

I hope CDPR do differentiate between hard and soft armours, because it was an important part of 2020. It keeps a lot of options open that way.

 

[thewarsend]

For all intents and purposes no armor is repairable in the field.
Now between missions at home base, given the proper materials, tools, and skills is another story.

"Hard" armors can be repaired by swapping damaged plates for new ones. But no one is going to lug a bag of spare plates and tools around on a mission, nor are they likely to have 5, 10, 30 minutes to sit around performing repairs.
"Soft" armors on the other hand probably require replacement rather then repair. Say your Kevlar vest has taken a couple hits - the Kevlar weave has broken/damaged fibers and any backing material (to diffuse the impact) has also been damaged. You're going to what? Reweave the vest with new fibers?
Composite armors (usually "soft" armor with "hard" plates in strategic/vital areas are sort of 50/50. If ONLY an impact plate has been damaged it can be replaced, but if you took the hit in the "soft" portions of the armor it would need replacement.

I suspect Cyberpunk 2077 won't go into great detail with regard to hit/armor locations, tho I'd be overjoyed if they did. So I suspect you'll just have an over-all armor rating. In fact I'd be a bit surprised if they actually differentiated between "hard" and "soft" armors.
As an example a tank is "hard" armor. Up to a certain point it's impervious to impacts, you could spend all day bouncing rifle bullets off one and other then giving the crew a headache not accomplish a thing. Whereas say a sandbag is "soft" (and ablative) armor. Shoot at it long enough with a BB gun and you will eventually punch thru (simply because you'll destroy the bag and the sand itself will run out).

Thats not quite true.. Anything can be field repaired.. Including weapons, cars and armour.. (Provided you have the skill to do it) Depending on the repair, it will take some time (you can do a basic repair in 2 min. but a extensive repair can take from 5 min to few hours), but you should be able do it.. Some duct tape, a portable welding/cutting torch and some industrial glue can do the trick.. And for spare parts, you can use whatever you find on your fallen enemies..

You know, some small, basic things you can carry in your backpack..

Also, i want to be able to use "jury rigging" to fix everything, the pieces you use should appear on your armor&weapons.. I really, really want to see something like that.. A way to do that would be, by making every armor and weapon in the game made of smaller meshes.. (Instead of having a complete armor set mesh, you can create many small pieces of mesh like left leg armor mesh, right arm armor mesh, upper chest plate armor mesh, right shoulder armor mesh and so on)

You know, like in Fallout New Vegas, where you can find power armors repaired with whatever they can find: