Some Minor Questions about names

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Some Minor Questions about names

So throughout the series I've noticed that some names got changed between The Witcher 2 and The Witcher 3, I'd like to know which of these are correct

Dancing on the Grave of his Foes or Dancing on the Barrows of his Foes

Sile de Tansarville or Sile de Tancarville

Vizima, Wyzima or Vyzima

Isle of Avalon or Isle of Avallach
 
The English language game used Graves, Tansarville and Vizima, in both games.

The alternatives for Vizima are, I think, correct in other languages.

Sile was Sheala de Tancarville, I think, in Polish, but definitely Tansarville in English. I suspect it was because the "s" is a closer approximation for pronunciation.

"Barrows" sounds like an alternative translation into English from another language (Graves would fit better in context). I don't recall seeing "Barrows" used in either game, but could be wrong.

Avallach and Avalon are listed as alternative translations into English. I think that you're correct in that the second game used Avallach and the third Avalon, probably to avoid confusion with Avallac'h and because the Isle of Avalon is already familiar to a lot of English readers.
 
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BTW, I totally don't understand why "Sheala de Tancarville" was translated into "Síle de Tansarville". In the official book translations she is still Sheala.
 
BTW, I totally don't understand why "Sheala de Tancarville" was translated into "Síle de Tansarville". In the official book translations she is still Sheala.

I've often wondered why too. All I can think of is that someone decided it sounded more exotic.

"Síle" is the modern Gaelic spelling of the name more often spelled "Sheila" in English. After a brief search it seems an etymology of the name doesn't appear to be accepted. I don't know how long the name has been in use here, it certainly wasn't common amongst the girls who got wrote about anyway. It is however present, possibly to great antiquity, as the only known label for the Sheelagh-na-Gigs.

Modern Gaelic "Sí" sounds like "She", and used to be spelled "Sídhe" with the exact same sound. I suspect "Síle" may be an approximate female equivalent of the name "Oisín" (from the Sídhe), as the "Sheel-agh" ending can indicate a member of the kingroup whose clan name / identifier it is appended to. Same with -ach actually, so "Avallach" could be understood as "a person from Avalon".

As for what is right for the Witcherworld, consider this:
  • Real world: "Shenanigans", the she part comes from sídhe.
  • WitcherWorld: Here the equivalent word is Seidhe, pronounced like "hay" rather than "he".
  • BookWitcher: Its "Sheala", I for one would pronounce shea "Shay".


So the book appears consistently following one phonetic (unless "Shenanigans" is in the books), and the game has divorced the given name from the tribe, and by not adapting to Sheananigans has become completely inconsistent.

Hows that for an answer ? ;)
 
"Síle" is the modern Gaelic spelling of the name more often spelled "Sheila" in English. After a brief search it seems an etymology of the name doesn't appear to be accepted. I don't know how long the name has been in use here, it certainly wasn't common amongst the girls who got wrote about anyway. It is however present, possibly to great antiquity, as the only known label for the Sheelagh-na-Gigs.

Modern Gaelic "Sí" sounds like "She", and used to be spelled "Sídhe" with the exact same sound. I suspect "Síle" may be an approximate female equivalent of the name "Oisín" (from the Sídhe), as the "Sheel-agh" ending can indicate a member of the kingroup whose clan name / identifier it is appended to. Same with -ach actually, so "Avallach" could be understood as "a person from Avalon".

I always enjoy seeing this sort of conversation! Here's what I could find on the name Sile, upon consulting my copy of A Dictionary of First Names, by Patrick Hanks and Flavia Hodges, (Oxford University Press, 1991): ' Irish Gaelic form of Cecily, derived from the early Middle Ages from the Anglo-Norman form Cecile.' (Both Sheila and Shelagh are variants.) Cecily, for those interested, is a modified feminine form of the masculine name Cecil, which derives ultimately from Latin Caecilius, a Roman byname, taken from the word Caecus, 'blind'. (It would perhaps have fit Phillipa rather well. . . .)

As to the variation between Avalon and Avallach, I came upon this recently in The New Arthurian Encyclopedia, (Garland Publishing, Inc., New York, 1991), where the two names appear remarkably similar, and are perhaps interchangeable. In Welsh the Isle of Avalon is named Ynys Avallach, however, a legendary king of the same name was also said to rule over the island in some texts. In either case, the name means 'of apples', or 'appled', fruitful. There are a wide variety of spellings for the names throughout the Middle Ages. The inconsistencies, if we wish to consider them as such, in the world of the Witcher likely arise from the different languages, translators, or perhaps even the preferences of the writer(s).

While rather inconclusive, I hope my observations are of some interest.

 
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The inconsistencies... likely arise from the different languages, translators, or perhaps even the preferences of the writer(s).

I was actually thinking the Voice actors in the studio, last minute stuff. I wouldn't expect many people to be aware of the potential connections in my last post. The etymology of "shenanigans" is considered uncertain, but theres nothing non-Irish about it, and when you combine the Sídhe's proclivity for mischief with the Irish Traveller tradition (indigenous itinerant lifestyle whose numbers swelled during the famine, but existed from ancient times as "camp followers" for Irelands numerous, regular, and week-long festival gatherings), it becomes highly probable the words origins are here. And thats not even taking into account the gaping hole the size and shape of Ireland that resides within many threads of historical inquiry, you may not have heard about that! ;)

As for the personal name Síle arising from Ceclia, perhaps... doesn't change the fact that the word, sound & meaning of sídhe is attested in manuscript prior to the Norman invasion, is a component of many placenames (themselves amongst the very oldest of our traditions), and the whole sheela-na-gig phenomenon, which isn't remotely enlightened by being named after some blind Norman chick.

I remember a time when the origin of the word "Bard" was said to be Norman. Not anymore. I suggest that while a lot of words entered wide usage through the - internationalists at the time - Normans, I wonder if such a heavily militarily focused people had much energy left over for so many new words & concepts... or could it just be that they are a comfortable place to stop the investigation for some people?

I was a bit loose earlier, strictly Avallach would be "one from Avall", and Avalonach would be required for "one from Avalon". Ablach is Irish for apple btw, and the 'b' is pronounced as a 'v'.

The Isle of Man is traditionally thought to be closely connected to the Sacred Isle. Certainly sometimes the Hero travels east to go there. I've occasionally looked at Anglesey as a potential inspiration too, as we know it was a major Druidical centre. Why the furthest point in Wales from the Angles territory is the only significant rebranding in the whole country is curious also. I wonder if they grow good apples there.
 
Ill add one more if you don't mind. Why on Earth, Bjanka (Bianca) becomes Ves in English version?
 
Ill add one more if you don't mind. Why on Earth, Bjanka (Bianca) becomes Ves in English version?

That is a very interesting transformation. 'twould ultimately be a question for the translators. Etymologically, the two names have little in common, so the answer is likely cultural. Each one has different expectations and associations for certain names. In English, in my opinion, Bianca (which means 'white', by the way) doesn't have the same terseness and unusualness of Ves (possibly a shortening of Vesta, the Roman household goddess?). Bianca is also, to my knowledge, more of an old-fashioned name in English, and reminds me a bit of rather hefty opera singers, but that's just my association.
 
Ill add one more if you don't mind. Why on Earth, Bjanka (Bianca) becomes Ves in English version?

I always figured it was a diminutive for Vesna, a common girl's name in what used to be called Serbo-Croatian. (See also Vesna Hood, the go-getter barmaid in TW1.) It means "spring" and is the name of the pagan goddess of Spring. Bjanka, you got me. It is a girl's name and means White in many languages. How you get from "white" to "spring", I don't know.
 
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How you get from "white" to "spring", I don't know.

White blossoms in springtime, perhaps? Either way, the meanings of both names don't seem to quite fit Ves/Bjanka's character; so I imagine this may be a case of cultural meaning, rather than etymology, or that simplistic -- and rather disappointing explanation -- that they merely liked the way one sounded.

(Thanks for the reference to Vesna, by the way, I wouldn't have thought of that one.)
 
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