CD Projekt Red Please Change the Commander's Horn Card

[shdcs1975]

This card is currently played by pretty much every single person online, no matter what faction they play or what tactic they're going for (I've seen some peoples playing this card in control decks and win games) and generally speaking, Gwent is going to turn into CH city if it stays in it's current state.

I think you look only at your meta, on higher ranks you don't find this card. Because they playing strategies they not working with Horn.
For me i play with dbomb, so why i should waste a 2nd rare silver slot with a card that i can't use when i use my dbomb.

 

[GenLiu]

I think you look only at your meta, on higher ranks you don't find this card. Because they playing strategies they not working with Horn.
For me i play with dbomb, so why i should waste a 2nd rare silver slot with a card that i can't use when i use my dbomb.

I guess you're right. I'm currently level 24 and play in both ranked and casual (mainly when I'm trying new decks/cards/strategies) and I face a LOT of peoples using CH in both formats (a good 6O%, I'm not even exagereting).

And sure, playing D bomb is a really good counter to CH (provided you can hold onto it until the card shows up or you simply draw it) but this card doesn't fit in every decks.

Just to make things clear. I'm not complaining about this card being too strong or me not finding ways to deal with it but I think it's too cheap and skilless as a card and it ruins the tactical aspect of the game (on top of generating way too much value for my liking).

 

[Archpriest]

I think you look only at your meta, on higher ranks you don't find this card. Because they playing strategies they not working with Horn.
For me i play with dbomb, so why i should waste a 2nd rare silver slot with a card that i can't use when i use my dbomb.

Both, Horn and Scorch, are practically non-existent on higher levels. You just don't get to buff yourself to the extend where Horn justifies slot it's taking. Or place yourself into position to even think about Scorch as a must have.
There are few players who completely clean your side of the board and make you think about dedicating your time to other games than Gwent. All without these cards...

 

[Almaron22]

The average silver card is supposed to get a point value of about 10, at least that is what it seems like they are balanced after. Now lots of silver cards can get you more or less value than that. And getting the most value out of your cards, are part of playing your cards right. Now the problem with Commanders Horn, is that it can pretty easily grant you far more value, than any other silver or gold card. Sure you can counter it with lots of cards, and it might be a dead draw. But in the games where you play Commanders Horn and your opponent can't counter it, it almost guarantees your win.
I rarely see anyone playing commanders horn, and I don't play it myself, but I still think it is a problem in its current state.

D-bomb isn't even really a counter. Sure it removes the buff, but you just used a silver card, to remove the effect of another silver card. The only difference is that Commanders Horn will always have at least some value, which D-bomb will not. I stopped playing D-bomb, because it usually ends up being a dead card.

 

[Snfonseka]

Yeah, nerf it, nerf everything to oblivion!

LOL! They already did it several times.

 

[ManwichTuesday]

D-bomb isn't even really a counter. Sure it removes the buff, but you just used a silver card, to remove the effect of another silver card. The only difference is that Commanders Horn will always have at least some value, which D-bomb will not. I stopped playing D-bomb, because it usually ends up being a dead card.

This is a game of counters. You play a move to force a better move from your opponent, hoping he'll overplay. Based on the trade, you position yourself for the next move. Trading silver for silver is fair.

Commander's affects 1 row, and is purely a buff.
-If opponent has no or limited units, it's a pretty low value play
-There are counters to it

D-Bomb affects all units on board, and can be a buff or a drain
-It can bring opponents back down from buffs
-It can raise your weakened units back up to normal
-it renders weather irrelevant until re-played
-There really isn't a "counter" to d-bomb (you can't undo it's effects really)

D-Bomb has many more applications than Horn. But like many cards in this game, you can't just throw it into any mix and think it will be valuable for you. Your deck needs a theme, or an angle, so that you know the situation in which D-Bomb will be most valuable for you.

 

[Almaron22]

This is a game of counters. You play a move to force a better move from your opponent, hoping he'll overplay. Based on the trade, you position yourself for the next move. Trading silver for silver is fair.

Commander's affects 1 row, and is purely a buff.
-If opponent has no or limited units, it's a pretty low value play
-There are counters to it

D-Bomb affects all units on board, and can be a buff or a drain
-It can bring opponents back down from buffs
-It can raise your weakened units back up to normal
-it renders weather irrelevant until re-played
-There really isn't a "counter" to d-bomb (you can't undo it's effects really)

D-Bomb has many more applications than Horn. But like many cards in this game, you can't just throw it into any mix and think it will be valuable for you. Your deck needs a theme, or an angle, so that you know the situation in which D-Bomb will be most valuable for you.

I wasn't trying to say that D-bomb is a bad card, because it certainly is not. D-bomb might have more uses, but does not have the same reliability as Commanders Horn. But this isn't a conversation about comparing two very different cards. It's about whether or not Commanders Horn in it's current state is good for the game. So lets stick to that, eh?

 

[Fimbulthrym]

And yes, the card has it's counter, that's completely true. Yet, if you don't draw them or are down on cards it's an auto lose unless you're playing extrem control decks.

You have to draw the Ch as well, so where is the difference between the CH and the counter of it? Each tactic, which grants you CH can grant you the counter as well.

But in the games where you play Commanders Horn and your opponent can't counter it, it almost guarantees your win.

This sentence is something you can say to literally all cards in game. If you cant counter a card you lose. Most counters a just a higher strenght

D-bomb isn't even really a counter. Sure it removes the buff, but you just used a silver card, to remove the effect of another silver card

You think it is a problem, to nullify(!) the effect of a card, by playing another card with exact same conditions and nearly self-demolition?
I think CH is perfectly fine at this time of the game

 

[Almaron22]

This sentence is something you can say to literally all cards in game. If you cant counter a card you lose. Most counters a just a higher strenght

That certainly is not true . If the game is just about playing cards and hoping your opponent can't counter them, then the game is basically just a form of rock, paper, scissors.
There are no cards, which if not countered will win you the game by itself. But Commanders Horn is a lot closer to being a card that can win games by itself, than most other cards. It is a huge swing card, much more so than most other cards, and that is the problem.

You think it is a problem, to nullify(!) the effect of a card, by playing another card with exact same conditions and nearly self-demolition? I think CH is perfectly fine at this time of the game

Not at all, but you don't gain an advantage by playing D-bomb, unless your opponent have played other buffs as well. By playing D-bomb you remove the buff, but you don't gain a point advantage over your opponent. Because of that D-bomb is not a TRUE COUNTER to Commander Horn. A true counter would be something like weather cards, that both removes the buff and sets the units strength to 1

 

[Laveley]

LOL! They already did it several times.

 

[ManwichTuesday]

Not at all, but you don't gain an advantage by playing D-bomb, unless your opponent have played other buffs as well. By playing D-bomb you remove the buff, but you don't gain a point advantage over your opponent. Because of that D-bomb is not a TRUE COUNTER to Commander Horn. A true counter would be something like weather cards, that both removes the buff and sets the units strength to 1

The scenario that you're justifying in these comments is literally this : "My opponent was winning, and then played CH and is now winning harder. If I play D-Bomb he'll go back to still winning instead of me now winning."

 

[Almaron22]

The scenario that you're justifying in these comments is literally this : "My opponent was winning, and then played CH and is now winning harder. If I play D-Bomb he'll go back to still winning instead of me now winning."

Yes? Sorry, I am not sure what you are getting at. In any case, Commanders Horn is certainly not an OP card by any means. It can be very strong, but it also comes with a risk. The problem is that the card MIGHT, be bad for the game, more so than any of the other swing cards

 

[ManwichTuesday]

Wasn't trying to come off rude. Apologies.

I guess my point was to show that you seem to be describing a scenario where you were losing despite CH being played. So lose by 1 point or 100, it's still a loss. CH doesn't appear to have been the problem.

 

[GenLiu]

This is a game of counters. You play a move to force a better move from your opponent, hoping he'll overplay. Based on the trade, you position yourself for the next move. Trading silver for silver is fair.

Commander's affects 1 row, and is purely a buff.
-If opponent has no or limited units, it's a pretty low value play
-There are counters to it

As much as I'm agree with the second one, I am not with the first and that's exactly the problem of this card imo.
You don't need to set up a strong board in order to get massive value out of the CH, I destroy some people with nothing else than Eredin and a random nekker warrior...And I do it almost every day.

Like I said, I'm not complaining about the card being too strong but being too easy to abuse no matter what your board state is and how well your opponent is trying to deal with it (especially if you think about everything the game can bring to back this card up. If, for example Eredin get chosen to stay on the board when you're playing Monster your opponent has to deal with 2O power twice in a row. Same thing with Dwarf decks that don't even need to have the CH in hand in order to use it....).

If you take a card like Gerald igni for example. This card is capable of creating a huge swing of value and can technically win you some game just by itself but at least it's fair and punishes players who make mistakes.

If you're cautious enough and play carefully it's really easy to dodge most of the damage caused by a card like GI (and basically any other card in this game) but CH can just kill you out of nowhere from a very common board state and I don't think it's a good thing in a game based on tactics.

 

[4RM3D]

...CH can just kill you out of nowhere from a very common board state and I don't think it's a good thing in a game based on tactics.

Commander's Horn is a card that can tip the scale of the battle. The thing is, there are more cards that can do that. D-bomb, Igni, Aeromancy. When you use those cards at the right time, the opponent might not be able to counter it in that moment. However, there is always a possible counter. Aeromancy can undo Commander's Horn and D-bomb can undo both. Besides, high strength units are a prime targets for Scorch/Igni.

 

[GenLiu]

Commander's Horn is a card that can tip the scale of the battle. The thing is, there are more cards that can do that. D-bomb, Igni, Aeromancy. When you use those cards at the right time, the opponent might not be able to counter it in that moment. However, there is always a possible counter. Aeromancy can undo Commander's Horn and D-bomb can undo both. Besides, high strength units are a prime targets for Scorch/Igni.

Don't worry, I know how to counter the card, it's not the problem imo
Everything has it's counter but each card has a different impact on the game when you don't draw them (or just don't play a deck that can house such counters) and in fact, the examples you're giving are really interesting because even though they can change the course of the game entierly, I don't consider any of them being unfair.

Let's take D-bomb for example, if you're playing against a deck that can potentially run it, it's a wise thing to not over comit with your buffs. Same thing with Aeromancy, If you don't play all of your units on the same row, you're going to be fine or at least you can reduce the damage of this card by a great deal. CH can be played in any deck and is nearly impossible to play around.
Unless you're playing a heavily armed control deck that can deal with pretty much every single unit your opponent is playing you can only react after the card has been played since even a very common board state can generate a ton of value just because of this card.

 

[ManwichTuesday]

You don't need to set up a strong board in order to get massive value out of the CH, I destroy some people with nothing else than Eredin and a random nekker warrior...And I do it almost every day.

What you described can be done by your opponent too, though. And not just Monsters opponents, all of them. There are silver and bronze combos that can make up 28 in 3 plays in every deck. Additionally, there are combos that can significantly disrupt you from getting anywhere near 28 in those 3 same cards with other plays. Also, why would your opponent let the round end after those 3 plays?

 

[GenLiu]

What you described can be done by your opponent too, though. And not just Monsters opponents, all of them. There are silver and bronze combos that can make up 28 in 3 plays in every deck. Additionally, there are combos that can significantly disrupt you from getting anywhere near 28 in those 3 same cards with other plays. Also, why would your opponent let the round end after those 3 plays?

True but again, we're talking about combos that needs set up, skill, thinking and can be interrupted by your opponent if they're playing correctly.

 

[cheeto101]

True but again, we're talking about combos that needs set up, skill, thinking and can be interrupted by your opponent if they're playing correctly.

At higher levels of play, a value commanders horn does require some serious set up, skill and thinking otherwise it does get interrupted by your opponent as they will be playing correctly.

 

[tortugueta]

I agree with GenLiu 100%, so I will not repeat what sets Commander's Horn apart from other cards like Igni or Dimeritium Bomb. Actually, I have changed my opinion on Commander's Horn since the first time I posted on this thread. First I thought one Horn was alright, and the only problem was duplication. After some more play, I think the Horn should be outright removed from the game, or at the very least be made a gold card.

I completely disagree with cheeto101. It requires 0 skill and 0 setup. Sure, if you know what you are doing you will get more out of the card than if you don't, just like with any other card. But in most cases I see, the strategy is as well thought and complicated as "play everything you have left in round 3 and throw a Horn as the last card, because chances are your last Horn gives you more value than whatever your opponent's last card gives him". I am sick and tired of playing good, interesting matches that end up in a cheap and tasteless victory because either my opponent or myself had a Horn. A good match reduced to a good card.