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It's important that we are allowed to discuss this so everyone please abide by forum rules.
Sir, it is clear that you think I have something against you espeically, which is not I can assure. I don't know why you misunderstood my words, I was simply remind here an easy and well reknown fact: forum rules.
The rest is all in your mind. I'm sorry.
The rest is all in your mind. I'm sorry.
Songlian, settle down. She wasn't singling you out. The mods here don't coddle us, and unlike other game sites they are free to express their opinion.
I'm pretty sure that the tone you're picking up from what secondchildren wrote was actually just due to strange phrasing on her part. I doubt that it was meant harshly or in a patronizing way, though it's easy for me to see how you could make that assumption. Personally, I'd probably take it that way too.Songlian said:
The "chill down" line can be construed in some contexts as patronizing and scolding, so I think that's where the misunderstanding is coming from.Songlian said:
EDIT:
Nope, slimgrin is totally right. Wikipedia proof.Adityathewarriorwithin said:What now 'CDPR' and 'CDP' are different?
I thought they meant the same, just different ways of writing.
Hey, now. We're currently in the middle of hugs tiem. Everyone knows there are no backhanded comments allowed during that particular tiem. Also, that's the kind of thing that'll get this thread locked in a hurry. Let's keep it friendly.Adityathewarriorwithin said:
227 said:
Could be fine discussing about this, but I don't think it's the right place. Since I've quoted this
from Songlian's post, I don't know how you can make the assumption. Afaik rofl-ing and saying "it's true" it's not against forum rules. But before being accused to be taunting, I can only remark that I WAS NOT pointing to Songlian in particular, neither to any one of you. I'm not trying to play with you and your intelligence guys. I assume that you all ARE smart, mature and fair people.
Okey-dokey so
Chill down should be read as cutie lil kitty
Sorry Songlian, didn't me to be that harsh.
Please back on topic.
ON TOPIC.
The only main and real argument I see here if wether CDP has the right to go after those who steal their games or not... All other arguments are ancilliary ones.
Like everything else if life, this "procedures" can develope into mistakes, abuses, innocent people being wronged, etc... Buy why use the WORST kind of scenario as an excuse to advice NO ACTION at all? Because it seems that's the line some people would like CDP to follow...
I'll give an example: There's a heist in a bank: the robbers flee... Should the police follow and capture them? In the pursuit, it may be possible the thieves kidnap some people and use them as shields or smthg... Or if there's a shoot-out, the police may even kill some innocent by-standards. But if this happens, the police should be accounted for that, as they are two separate things. The bad shit some policemen "could" do enforcing the law should never be an excuse for reasoning like "it's better the police doesnt do anything, because if they act it could be worse".
I know, CDP is not the police(thank God, I dont like cops), but they are acting strictly within the law, and in defense of their rights, the pirates are not.
You could argue that there is an economic "incentive" to collect those 1000 Euros fines, but how else would you include a powerful enough deterrent element in this if not by a huge fine? This actually gives the real innocent people (if there are any) an incentive to fight the claims in court.
And as "unfair" as a charge of a large company (full of money) against regular people may sound, Germany is not Stalinist Russia, nor these are the Middle Ages. Accused people who claim to be innocent still have to be proven guilty, it's not the other way around.
The proposals that CDP should act "kind-hearted" and offer the pirates to "return" just the 50 bucks are ridiculous... It won't happen and even if it did, it wouldn't solve the problem. We're dealing with people that know exactly what they are doing, and doing it all the time mainly because there's no backlash... I would say, "the fair treatment is the court room, if you want to take your chances, if not, make the settlement, and pay the fine". At least that's how I see it.
The "bad image" CDP could get out of this is another weak argument. NOBODY gives a hoot about "bad image". I mean, outside modders, and some people in the forums; gamers, as a collective mass of people, only care of the game they're playing, if it's good, if they're having fun and how much did they spend in it. I dont see mucn "principles" in that.
And what about the attitudes some of the people that have posted in the internet "I will never buy another of their games"?
That's only talk. When the Witcher 3 comes along we'll see how much of that is just hot air.
I see all this as an educational experiment for the gaming community, of which the results are yet to be seen. You have "the carrots" (a high quality game and quality customer service) and now you also have "the sticks" (the fines for the torrent-downloaders).
I applaude such examples of people that after illegally downloading this game decided to buy it, but I can also give examples of really degenerate pirates that to this day laugh at me for having bought the game... Guess how much do I think each group represents of the whole pirate "community"?
The only realy tragedy I see here is in the example given by Second, the hypothetic case involving children or minors. They are not legally responsible for their actions (their parents are), but savy enough with their PCs to do such things... That would be unfair... But LIFE is unfair... Why did Paris Hilton inherited a fortune instead of little ol' me?
The only main and real argument I see here if wether CDP has the right to go after those who steal their games or not... All other arguments are ancilliary ones.
Like everything else if life, this "procedures" can develope into mistakes, abuses, innocent people being wronged, etc... Buy why use the WORST kind of scenario as an excuse to advice NO ACTION at all? Because it seems that's the line some people would like CDP to follow...
I'll give an example: There's a heist in a bank: the robbers flee... Should the police follow and capture them? In the pursuit, it may be possible the thieves kidnap some people and use them as shields or smthg... Or if there's a shoot-out, the police may even kill some innocent by-standards. But if this happens, the police should be accounted for that, as they are two separate things. The bad shit some policemen "could" do enforcing the law should never be an excuse for reasoning like "it's better the police doesnt do anything, because if they act it could be worse".
I know, CDP is not the police(thank God, I dont like cops),
but they are acting strictly within the law, and in defense of their rights, the pirates are not.You could argue that there is an economic "incentive" to collect those 1000 Euros fines, but how else would you include a powerful enough deterrent element in this if not by a huge fine? This actually gives the real innocent people (if there are any) an incentive to fight the claims in court.
And as "unfair" as a charge of a large company (full of money) against regular people may sound, Germany is not Stalinist Russia, nor these are the Middle Ages. Accused people who claim to be innocent still have to be proven guilty, it's not the other way around.
The proposals that CDP should act "kind-hearted" and offer the pirates to "return" just the 50 bucks are ridiculous... It won't happen and even if it did, it wouldn't solve the problem. We're dealing with people that know exactly what they are doing, and doing it all the time mainly because there's no backlash... I would say, "the fair treatment is the court room, if you want to take your chances, if not, make the settlement, and pay the fine". At least that's how I see it.
The "bad image" CDP could get out of this is another weak argument. NOBODY gives a hoot about "bad image". I mean, outside modders, and some people in the forums; gamers, as a collective mass of people, only care of the game they're playing, if it's good, if they're having fun and how much did they spend in it. I dont see mucn "principles" in that.
And what about the attitudes some of the people that have posted in the internet "I will never buy another of their games"?
That's only talk. When the Witcher 3 comes along we'll see how much of that is just hot air.
I see all this as an educational experiment for the gaming community, of which the results are yet to be seen. You have "the carrots" (a high quality game and quality customer service) and now you also have "the sticks" (the fines for the torrent-downloaders).
I applaude such examples of people that after illegally downloading this game decided to buy it, but I can also give examples of really degenerate pirates that to this day laugh at me for having bought the game... Guess how much do I think each group represents of the whole pirate "community"?
The only realy tragedy I see here is in the example given by Second, the hypothetic case involving children or minors. They are not legally responsible for their actions (their parents are), but savy enough with their PCs to do such things... That would be unfair... But LIFE is unfair... Why did Paris Hilton inherited a fortune instead of little ol' me?
You guys do know that there are ways o mask your IP and MAC addresses, right? and most pirates are already doing that, so this makes it VERY hard and time consuming to pinpoint the real culprit, which in turn will result in some innocent people getting hassled.
These kinds of actions will not stop piracy, actually digital piracy will probably never stop completely, just because of one simple rule, in the digital world there are always counter-measures, this just means that pirates will get smarter and more cautious.
CDP has every right to go after thieves and pirates, and while they may win a few orens right now, they can't keep doing this forever (did i say orens?!), simply because it costs time and money, and those could be invested in real ways to fight piracy, like all the extras that come with hard copies, online privileges for registered users, that will entice customers to buy their product, and it could actually cost much less and have better results.
I would rather have CDP use their resources on their next title, or maybe more DLCs??
These kinds of actions will not stop piracy, actually digital piracy will probably never stop completely, just because of one simple rule, in the digital world there are always counter-measures, this just means that pirates will get smarter and more cautious.
CDP has every right to go after thieves and pirates, and while they may win a few orens right now, they can't keep doing this forever (did i say orens?!), simply because it costs time and money, and those could be invested in real ways to fight piracy, like all the extras that come with hard copies, online privileges for registered users, that will entice customers to buy their product, and it could actually cost much less and have better results.
I would rather have CDP use their resources on their next title, or maybe more DLCs??
Let's be realistic: piracy is a crime, but on the totem pole of awful crime it's definitely lower than bank robbers with human shields. That just seems unnecessarily provocative.JackintheGreen said:
I think a better analogy would be that the officers all carry stun guns, use them indiscriminately, and rather than being present at a bank robbery they're blind and busting up an alleged counterfeiting ring. There are better ways to handle that situation than just jumping out and zapping people indiscriminately, because the potential for mistakes is very real. I don't understand why you're making this an "all or nothing" situation where you're either for CDP doing anything they want to protect their IP or against them protecting it at all. It's a misleading oversimplification because there are shades of grey, here.
A fine is not a deterrent. No one who downloads expects to be the person who gets caught, so the only person who that would be a deterrent to are those who have already been fined. However many people are being sued by CDP, the RIAA will always have sued more, yet music piracy is still a huge problem. Hardly a day goes by I don't get some newsletter complaining about how music piracy is worse than ever. Clearly that round of lawsuits didn't work as a deterrent, and those suits were probably much worse than what CDP is doing.JackintheGreen said:
Not that I'm an expert of German law or anything, but I've heard that Germany is a lot like my country in that the "innocent until proven guilty" bit doesn't apply to civil suits. If that's the case, it basically comes down to who has the most persuasive argument (which usually comes down to who has the most money).JackintheGreen said:
Have you ever been in a fan-driven business? How you're perceived is everything. Metallica is the obvious example, of course. Besides, if image means nothing, why has CDPR worked so hard up until this point to build up a positive image? Seems like it'd be easier to just say, "Screw it, they'll buy our games anyway because they're weak-willed!"JackintheGreen said:
By the way, if you have pirates laughing at you for legitimately buying the game, you need to associate with some better people. Seriously.
Well, the moral of the story here is: don't pirate from CDP, cause they're going to use some questionable tactics to bring your ass down. Do I agree with those tactics? No. But I've yet to agree with any anti-piracy attempts.
CDP said from the very beginning what they would do. The guys who started GoG have said that in the infancy of their company, pirates were their biggest competitors, not legitimate distributors. They are fully informed about this topic.
CDP said from the very beginning what they would do. The guys who started GoG have said that in the infancy of their company, pirates were their biggest competitors, not legitimate distributors. They are fully informed about this topic.
behind every argument against these measures lies a guilty conscience.
why is legal action a threat? it should be a godsend to the truly innocent as they can prove their case. again, guilt betrays itself very easily.
if you are against this because of some philosophical reason, then i must suggest you stop reading orwell so literally and applying it to everything you see. be smart about it.
why is legal action a threat? it should be a godsend to the truly innocent as they can prove their case. again, guilt betrays itself very easily.
if you are against this because of some philosophical reason, then i must suggest you stop reading orwell so literally and applying it to everything you see. be smart about it.
seamusgod said:
And I think that this is the whole issue here or in any other anti piracy campaigns.
And it's a philosophical problem, too. If I did something wrong, would a rightful life make up for it? Or would it be enough to just confess and pay the price for my actions once? Would it even be enough if I just promised to be good and true in the future?
So let's all be honest here: We are all just crying out loud about it, because we were once pirates, too.
Yes, I confess, I pirated games.
Does this make me a bad person forever?
Does it make up for my crimes, if I bought the games afterward?
Or does it justify my hate against pirates because I don't pirate anymore?
Or does it justify my hate against any company suing pirates because I fear persecution?
I'd say neither.
I say I did some stupid things in my past and I did it out of the lack for better knowledge or maybe something like wisdom. And I did it to save myself some money.
But I will always be a pirate regarding the software I got illegally.
But I may be a costumer in the future. And frankly I give a shit for the ploughing reputation of any game developer or publisher. The only thing that's of interest for me regarding my decision to buy the game is the content, i. e. the game itself. And I strongly believe most others to secretly think the same even if they cry out loud that they wont buy a game at any given chance.
Would it hurt, if I had to pay for my crimes?
Yes it would, but I should and probably would take it as a lesson in life. - To never do such things again.
And for the whole suing innocents thing: Yeah, right. It may happen that innocents are persecuted, but it shouldn't be too hard to prove your innocence.
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