sfruzz;n10596222 said:
Agreed, Gwent is asymmetric, but then again it IS a different game with a different set of rules, which creates the context of the game. By playing it you accept that context or if you don't accept it anymore then you stop playing (as you indicated, and that is only consequent). If you decide within the context to not use certain game mechanics that is your decision and again, you have to accept the consequences. Poker does not have that mechanic, so comparing these two games on that mechanic is comparing apples and oranges. Not owning a card and thus not being able to play can certainly be a disadvantage, but that does not imply that you don't have alternatives or that you can't own it at all. If you want Gwent to be like Poker you will have only one faction and everybody gets all the cards from the beginning, but then it wouldn't be Gwent anymore, would it?
In fact it is part of the core idea of a game like Gwent to acquire cards over time by playing it a lot and thus getting better cards to improve your decks (and your skills). It also leads to a certain variance of decks. For example I play now for about 4 months and have by no means all the "good" cards of the current meta. Thus my deck is not super competitive. But is fun for me to do my dailies, get kegs and get more cards. Duplicates I mill to create new ones. Because of the scarcity of scraps I carefully need to decide which cards I want to craft, which are useful for playing, but also fit my playing style and my preferred faction. Even so I managed to get to rank 17 in my third season. If competitive play is not your thing, just play casual, you still get your six rounds easily, even as beginner, since you don't have to win those games. But you will progress over time if you are willing to invest time and yourself into the game.
This a completely different gaming experiences to Poker where my sole goal is to win the pot as often as possible to earn more money then I pay for the buy-in. If your prefer the Poker experience, by all means go play it, it is fun, I have done it myself. But don't measure Gwent based on Poker mechanics, because that makes no sense at all. Both use cards, both involve some luck, true, but in very different ways. So, if Gwent is no longer you thing, have fun with poker. But allow me to also have fun with Gwent.
No balance patch.
No changes to many dead cards, inluding several leaders.
Not a word about coinflip changes.
Buggy, buggy, buggy new season, every second game "crashes".
Wonderful new cards, completely dead or crazy OP.
Goodbye until HUGE balance change, or goodbye forever.
Disrespect for fans to release such buggy "patch"..((((
Goodluck to everyone who still believes in Future of this game.
No changes to many dead cards, inluding several leaders.
Not a word about coinflip changes.
Buggy, buggy, buggy new season, every second game "crashes".
Wonderful new cards, completely dead or crazy OP.
Goodbye until HUGE balance change, or goodbye forever.
Disrespect for fans to release such buggy "patch"..((((
Goodluck to everyone who still believes in Future of this game.
Celestes666;n10597012 said:
I: Sabbath was effectively the balance patch. It buffed monsters and nerfed brouver/cleaver.
Outside of slight tweaks to Alchemy and maybe Greatswords the game is pretty balanced right now... Weaker cards do need to be buffed to increase diversity in ranked play. I don't see a problem with spending another month gathering data with the new cards in the pool instead of tweaking stuff every few weeks.
I assume they have limited time/manpower to devote to the game and it is pretty clear most of the effort this month went into getting the draft mode up and running.
Can't believe how childish most of this playerbase acts. You all thinking if you throw a temper tantrum the devs are supposed to jump through a hoop for you and beg you to stay.
They are a lot of first time card players in this community lol thinking everyone is gonna use different decks hahaha. With this update monster got buffed witch is another top deck witch everyone will start netcopy. When they realize the new faction leaders and cards is going to happen again new top decks witch everyone Will net copy them like all ways like in everycard game just put that in your mind and add some concrete because that will never going to change in a card game and same with Dead cards. Guys I am tire to hear buff all dead cards is impossible if they do that they will break the game we can't have 20 top decks again is impossible.
the game is in beta spec bugs that's why the word beta was created Jesus just wait for the patch and saying you will quit because of that reason is rung.
the game is in beta spec bugs that's why the word beta was created Jesus just wait for the patch and saying you will quit because of that reason is rung.
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x1Cygnus;n10594682 said:
I feel you, man. Everybody is playing the same stuff, it's so annoying. I've seen that Cleaver combo too many times. I'm probably going to take a break too. I want to keep playing and make interesting decks but it's just frustrating with all these crap decks going around. People use the same exact decks even in casual.
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I too got bored quite a while ago and dont play anymore, and its a shame because i still love the beautiful art and general design of the game and i wished there was a tabletop version (of this Gwent, not the W3 Gwent, i know one exists).
For me balance is less of an issue, its also the fact everybody is netdecking the same decks. Its so uninspired. Where is the fascination of discovering strategies yourself? I assume many people dont even really understand the deck they are playing because they just follow a popular guide. They want quick rewards but feel empty because in the end its not them accomplishing something.
Its a communitymade problem but the only way to combat it is to
1. obviously add more cards to the pool for more diversity. (Just a bandaid because there will still be a few decks on top all the time)
2. Make the game more complex again so not everyone can execute strategies as braindead easy as now. There is skill in the game for sure. A good player will pretty much always outplay a bad one but the gap is way to small. People have to be incentivized to use their own brain and come up with different ideas. I think Rows have to matter again. Making every unit passively agile was a big mistake.
Active movement has to play a much bigger part, maybe add more movement effects to existing cards or mechanics/ and also new ones. Then you can make much more "Plays" and punish mindless pointspam.
For me balance is less of an issue, its also the fact everybody is netdecking the same decks. Its so uninspired. Where is the fascination of discovering strategies yourself? I assume many people dont even really understand the deck they are playing because they just follow a popular guide. They want quick rewards but feel empty because in the end its not them accomplishing something.
Its a communitymade problem but the only way to combat it is to
1. obviously add more cards to the pool for more diversity. (Just a bandaid because there will still be a few decks on top all the time)
2. Make the game more complex again so not everyone can execute strategies as braindead easy as now. There is skill in the game for sure. A good player will pretty much always outplay a bad one but the gap is way to small. People have to be incentivized to use their own brain and come up with different ideas. I think Rows have to matter again. Making every unit passively agile was a big mistake.
Active movement has to play a much bigger part, maybe add more movement effects to existing cards or mechanics/ and also new ones. Then you can make much more "Plays" and punish mindless pointspam.
Same here. After 1300 hours or so I didn't think my fascination for this game would just decline rapidly like that. I am definitely playing a lot less than I used to and just don't find the mood to keep up. I don't see myself quitting altogether but like, I am tired.
I feel the game lacks interesting cards and combos. I feel like I miss the absolutely broken period of closed beta simply because even unplayable cards were very interesting (Shieldmaiden: whenever this unit is damaged but not destroyed, play a copy of it from your deck. Imagine the synergy with the current light longships, or savage bears back then, which hit even your units)
The last thing I'll play is probably Thronebreaker which I am still aiming to buy. But I don't know how things will be by then
I feel the game lacks interesting cards and combos. I feel like I miss the absolutely broken period of closed beta simply because even unplayable cards were very interesting (Shieldmaiden: whenever this unit is damaged but not destroyed, play a copy of it from your deck. Imagine the synergy with the current light longships, or savage bears back then, which hit even your units)
The last thing I'll play is probably Thronebreaker which I am still aiming to buy. But I don't know how things will be by then
Pruny;n10595192 said:
Are you sure he quit? He's still tweeting out Gwent events.
I can relate with OP. I'm personally still loving the game but I do get frustrated when I play people that clearly just looked up the most powerful known decks and you just play against them over and over and over. I'm proud to say that I've been doing okay running a moonlight deck which I almost never see. Anyway y'all need to diversify. Be an individual. As much as I'd like to just win all the time too I also wanna have a deck that is unique, that you dont expect, and sorta corresponds to my personality in way?... if that makes sense. For instance I did try looking up a better moonlight deck and found very few GM level decks because no one is working on them. The few I found, for one reason or another I plain didn't like. But I love moonlight so instead of abandoning the play style I actually enjoy I'm sticking with it. I'm still working on getting it up to GM. I know what I need I just done have the scraps. That seems to me what the spirit of the game should be instead of trolls that only want to pwn all the time always instead of working out their own deck.
Today I did have a moment when I thought I was done with the game. This dude set up something with a Nilfgaard deck... I'll be honest that I wasnt paying full attention but he went first and played a bunch of cards at once and set something up where every turn he did enough damage that he destroyed whatever I played and he just kept playing more cards to increase his damage output so even my 10 power werewolves were getting trashed. I almost always play a game all the way through but I quit that pretty quick. I wish I had actually looked at what he was doing so I could work out a way to counter it next time but being that I couldnt get a single card on the board I was just over it.
To wrap up, I get wanting to quit but the good thing is that this isnt a physical card game and once a broken mechanic is discovered it can be fixed in an update. Keep in mind that the game has barely just hit consoles so there's still plenty of work to do. I certainly don't see this game as "complete" yet and I should hope the devs dont either. So maybe check back in a couple months and see what you think? I REALLY want this game to work. I love the witcher universe and always said they should make gwent its own game. But I'm disappointed in how far away its gotten from the chess like strategy game that I fell in love with. It seems like now it doesnt require as much skill or intelligence but more so the ability to Google most op decks and duplicate them, which is indeed stupidly frustrating.
Today I did have a moment when I thought I was done with the game. This dude set up something with a Nilfgaard deck... I'll be honest that I wasnt paying full attention but he went first and played a bunch of cards at once and set something up where every turn he did enough damage that he destroyed whatever I played and he just kept playing more cards to increase his damage output so even my 10 power werewolves were getting trashed. I almost always play a game all the way through but I quit that pretty quick. I wish I had actually looked at what he was doing so I could work out a way to counter it next time but being that I couldnt get a single card on the board I was just over it.
To wrap up, I get wanting to quit but the good thing is that this isnt a physical card game and once a broken mechanic is discovered it can be fixed in an update. Keep in mind that the game has barely just hit consoles so there's still plenty of work to do. I certainly don't see this game as "complete" yet and I should hope the devs dont either. So maybe check back in a couple months and see what you think? I REALLY want this game to work. I love the witcher universe and always said they should make gwent its own game. But I'm disappointed in how far away its gotten from the chess like strategy game that I fell in love with. It seems like now it doesnt require as much skill or intelligence but more so the ability to Google most op decks and duplicate them, which is indeed stupidly frustrating.
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Quitting now.
The last straw for me was last game I played.
I had first light, nova, succubus, nivellen, 2xsiren, bridge troll, jotunn, nekurat, unseen elder on my hand when last round started.
Lost to elven point spam deck with -60 points.
He had no weather clear at all.
---------------
The worst part is that player base has been trying to say to you "no rng, no point/damage spam, but skill, combinations and tactical decisions" You do not listen.
GG for ruining your own game Gwent team before midwinter this was awesome. I just hope you do not get near Cyberpunk.
The last straw for me was last game I played.
I had first light, nova, succubus, nivellen, 2xsiren, bridge troll, jotunn, nekurat, unseen elder on my hand when last round started.
Lost to elven point spam deck with -60 points.
He had no weather clear at all.
---------------
The worst part is that player base has been trying to say to you "no rng, no point/damage spam, but skill, combinations and tactical decisions" You do not listen.
GG for ruining your own game Gwent team before midwinter this was awesome. I just hope you do not get near Cyberpunk.
TweetyLeaf;n10602572 said:
I totally hear you but I don't see this is a reason to rage quit the whole game just yet. They're not done with it and hopefully they will hear the people like us talking about it and they'll address it. I say if you're really that fed up take a break and come back to it. Maybe after an update. Maybe before since the playstyles themselves are still developing and people may stop running those kinds of decks because others worked out a way to properly shut them down. I run a moonlight deck myself and find they are exceptional at adjusting to your opponent so I would have loved to see this match and how he won this. Moonlight can adjust so much and its one of the most skill and strategy intensive, reactive style decks as opposed to the fixed set up decks that I'm sure you hate as much as I do. So I'm not surprised to see another moonlight player on the verge of quitting. That's how I ended up on the forum. I just wanted to see what people were saying about the direction of the game. If moonlight exists I still have to believe that this game will be what I want it to be. So many decks now are point vomit based so if the devs want a deck like moonlight to continue to be competitive some adjustments will have to be made. Or they'll just get rid of my favorite deck style which I don't see happening.
thecomfyshirt;n10602952 said:
I am not "rage" quitting. If they really take the game to other direction, I am more than willing to come back. When witcher 1 was announced I pre-ordered the collectors edition (i have ce for w2 too), not trying to brag, trying to make a point that I really do love witcher universe, and would definitely stay if the game would be enjoyable in anyway.
I play netrunner etc and I have to say that what I see and feel about gwent is "EA Syndrome" (yes it is my own term that I just made up).
"EA Syndrome" is when game designers decide that the game should be easily approachable and for "everyone", result is its for no one.
So they dumb down every mechanic there is and the game gets bland, shallow, uninteresting and unbalanced. The "new" mechanics they bring into table are strangely familiar feeling RNG mechanics that take the game even further away from "thinking man's game", or the new mechanics that are introduced are not strong enough to compare for "just destroy, or just spam points" and thus, are unplayble competitive.
I've been playing some time now, really wanted to become good in this game and create my own playstyle and decks that can compete.
At best I was top 4000 (iirc, and yeah I know its not that great) with my own deck.
I cannot climb even close to that because I do not enjoy playing point spam or removal. So tough luck for me and goodbye for gwent.
TweetyLeaf;n10603152 said:
You're right about everything. Which is exactly why you should stick with it and show your love for moonlight, which I believe is the thinking mans deck, especially in this iteration of the game. Its still early enough days that the fan base can have a voice in these matters. I remember when each faction seemed to have a unique play style. Now I've seen Wild Hunt decks utilizing point vomit strategies and not playing a single frost. It's awful and needs to change. We can change it. Sure maybe I should be a political activist instead of lobbying to reform Gwent. But if this game is done right I could see myself playing practically the rest of my life. Its why I'm trying so hard to make my own competitive moonlight deck to show that you don't have to all play the same way. I wont accept this game staying this way. It had so much potential and I don't think its too late for it to be the "thinking man's game." Not yet. They're still working on it.
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thecomfyshirt;n10603612 said:
Until it is, I will find something else to do with my time.
I am very sad about this fact because cdpr is my favorite game company and both cyberpunk and witcher and basically my main interests in fantasy or scifi genre.
For now, gwent is not fun for me, It was and I too thought this game will be something that I will play very very long time. However, I will not spend my time playing oversimplified crap.
When basic mechanics win over advanced mechanics, the game is doing something wrong.
Mathspy;n10603842 said:
I've thought about it but Sabbath does solve the problem. Its not that we're losing to point spam. It's that the point spam is the like the only strategy being implemented and thats whats making it unfun to play. At least personally its not that point spam is difficult to play against. Its just that its all I seem to ever play against. And anyone who even slightly knows what they're doing will shut down Sabbath before he starts anyway.
Disclaimer: I do not claim to know TweetLeaf or anything about him.
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Please dont speak on my behalf.thecomfyshirt;n10603912 said:
Mathspy;n10603842 said:
Does not solve the problem. Sabbath's gameplay is interesting but you need to build your deck around that card for it to be effective, you cannot "just throw it" in there and win.
My problem is not "difficulty with point spam" my problem is that the interesting and creative combos lose (have no change at all) against decks that utilize single or 2 card combos.
Like elven swap deck for example.
I have already given examples elsewhere but I share something now.
NR has cool long combo that can be played around and is fun, it will not win you the game even though one would think it's quite strong.
mandrake (buff) -> Vigo -> letho -> dudu -> regis.
Other one interesting would be monsters:
siren -> bridge troll -> jotun -> she-troll to rotfiend.
Both combos lose HARD to point spam and removal.
So as I said:
When basic mechanics win over advanced mechanics, the game is doing something wrong.
TweetyLeaf;n10603982 said:
Sorry I mostly meant like the royal we. Like people who share the sentiment that the current iteration of the game is flawed and point spam is a major part of it. There's actually a lot of US. No need to get snippy. It's not like I said "TweetyLeaf and I think this that or the other." Looking though back I was responding a post that said "you both" in reference to the two of us. I wasn't thinking about it like that though. Disclaimer: I do not claim to know TweetLeaf or anything about him.
Either way I agree with you though. When basic mechanics win over advanced mechanics, the game is doing something wrong. However I'm going to hold out hope that these issues get addressed. I'm gonna keep trying to build unique decks and use strategy to win even if my opponents don't. This is why I've decided to become more active in the community. This isn't the way the game should be.