Female Protagonist

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What viva and some others have said, something good and original.

Really tired of "I'm a warrior because":
My father used to take me hunting/wanted a son/I had 8 brothers
Father was a drunkard and I had to stand up for my family/Some traumatic event happened.
I didn't want to get married therefore warrior.

And not drawing attention constantly to being a female.
 
I'm OK with the "recognised as female", largely because I don't want it to be as though the game was designed for a male protagonist and the female was an afterthought, or just seen as a guy with tits. They just need to avoid overdoing the stereotypes of what being recognised as a female actually means.
 
I guess a Red Sonja game where we can spill buckets of blood the feminine way? By which I mean skillfully beheading mobs with a sword.

Ediit: I think in a sword and sorcery setting with barbarian warriors, the cliche female armor would be somewhat justified. But just to break the stereotype give her some animal furs or leather armor.

Edit 2: And don't give her an SM latex outfit like they did with Catwoman in Arkham City :p
 
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Just an interesting character. She can be strong, she can be weak, she can be intelligent, she can be stupid, she can be ambitious, she can be "nice". What matters to me is that she is multi-faceted and interesting.
 
So I was having a discussion about gender-neutrality in videogames and some girls brought up the notion that most videogames aren't gender-neutral and are catering to the male needs specifically. The Witcher series was also brought up as not being gender-neutral, and Dragon Age was brought up as an example of a more gender-neutral game (they mostly use the fact that you can choose your protagonist's gender as a reason why Dragon Age would be more gender-neutral than The Witcher).

Personally I don't see how Dragon Age is more gender-neutral than The Witcher. The fact that so many women are on this forum actually gives me the feeling there is nothing wrong with The Witcher's gender-neutrality. Clearly a lot of women are enjoying The Witcher as it is right now.

So I would like to ask all the ladies in the house to give your opinion on this matter. Do you think videogames should be changed and more tailored specifically towards gender neutrality and equality? Does a game that stars a male protagonist (and doesn't give you the option to play as a female protagonist) automatically make it less gender-neutral? How many of you ladies are bothered by the fact that you can only play as male Geralt? How important is the gender of the protagonist in a videogame to you, and what would you like to see changed and what would you want to stay the same regarding to gender-neutrality in The Witcher and videogames in general?
 
Oh Geralt's definitely a man and lives in a far more realistic and grounded world than the Bioware games, which fairly much are gender neutral because their characters have no definite personality or character as either males or females, except idiocy of course. Arising from the blatant power fantasy aspects.

Edit: If you want to do as Slim suggests, there was a thread broaching a similar subject not too long ago: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/29492-Female-Protagonist

Damn nice shooting Tex! That's what you call quick on the draw!
 
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Thanks, Bloth - posts moved :)

And OK, the questions:
Do you think videogames should be changed and more tailored specifically towards gender neutrality and equality?
Not when it's phrased like that. :)
I wouldn't want to see game developers feel that they need to make their games according to a political agenda, nor would I consider that there's a universal view of what makes a videogame sexist, which means that it would be impossible to please everyone. For example, I've seen views that if the game is set in a world that's sexist, the game itself is sexist. That if there are brothels, it's sexist. I wouldn't consider either of these viewpoints to be correct. On the other hand, there is sometimes an arbitrary and unnecessary sexism introduced simply because the developers don't think about it at all, and I would like them to try to do better. (Example, in DA:O, despite Bioware making such big claims about being gender-neutral, there are armours that magically turn into bikinis when equipped to a female Warden)

Does a game that stars a male protagonist (and doesn't give you the option to play as a female protagonist) automatically make it less gender-neutral? How many of you ladies are bothered by the fact that you can only play as male Geralt?
No, it doesn't automatically mean that. In a story-driven game, the character has a defined history, and there is absolutely no reason why the game should be designed to cater for two versions of the character. But if the game isn't story driven, and especially if the character isn't voiced, then the option should probably be there. I also recognise that a voiced character does involve extra costs, and would consider that to be an acceptable argument for NOT doing it in a lower-budget game. But maybe they should consider doing female-only more often if there are such budget constraints. (So I'm on the fence as far as this week's AC scandal is concerned)
Geralt is male, so I need to play the character as a male. That didn't annoy me. If CDPR had offered the option of playing as Geraldine, that WOULD have annoyed me, because it would have implied that they put political correctness above the story.

How important is the gender of the protagonist in a videogame to you, and what would you like to see changed
If I have the choice, I would normally play as a woman, at least on the first playthrough. In Torchlight, I used a "gender change" mod so that I could play as a female melee warrior. If the choice isn't there, I'll play as a man, without any second thoughts - if I can play as an elf and still feel connected to the protagonist, it shouldn't be difficult to play as a man. I wouldn't make a purchase decision based on the availability of a female protagonist.
I would like to see more games available with female protagonists, either as an option, or story-driven with JUST a female.

and what would you want to stay the same regarding to gender-neutrality in The Witcher and videogames in general?
I want diversity in games. Which means I don't want ALL games to be designed according to some political-correctness checklist. There is a place for games with freedom in character-building, there is a place for games with fixed protagonists, and there is a place for modern equivalents of Leisure Suit Larry if there's a market for it.
But I would also like game developers to take into consideration the fact that their audience is not exclusively male, and therefore NOT introduce sexist elements unnecessarily to please a male audience if those elements would put off female gamers.
And the only thing I would want from The Witcher is NOT to see sex cards, because that is the only thing I think they did wrong.
 
So I was having a discussion about gender-neutrality in videogames and some girls brought up the notion that most videogames aren't gender-neutral and are catering to the male needs specifically. The Witcher series was also brought up as not being gender-neutral, and Dragon Age was brought up as an example of a more gender-neutral game (they mostly use the fact that you can choose your protagonist's gender as a reason why Dragon Age would be more gender-neutral than The Witcher).

Personally I don't see how Dragon Age is more gender-neutral than The Witcher. The fact that so many women are on this forum actually gives me the feeling there is nothing wrong with The Witcher's gender-neutrality. Clearly a lot of women are enjoying The Witcher as it is right now.

So I would like to ask all the ladies in the house to give your opinion on this matter. Do you think videogames should be changed and more tailored specifically towards gender neutrality and equality? Does a game that stars a male protagonist (and doesn't give you the option to play as a female protagonist) automatically make it less gender-neutral? How many of you ladies are bothered by the fact that you can only play as male Geralt? How important is the gender of the protagonist in a videogame to you, and what would you like to see changed and what would you want to stay the same regarding to gender-neutrality in The Witcher and videogames in general?

Ouch, you could be opening a can of worms with these questions. You might want to edit your post with a request not to turn the topic into a men vs women or The Witcher vs Dragon Age discussion.
I've been playing games since arcade games in the late 70s and about the only time a game has felt gender neutral would be a space invaders or pong style game. IMO, where games have allowed a sentient, humanoid character to be played I've often had the feeling that the writers/artists/developers expect the player to create a male character or be a heterosexual male player driving whichever character is the protagonist in the game. About the only time I didn't feel that jarring disconnect was when I played The Longest Journey with April Ryan as the protagonist.
As far as the Witcher goes I like the games despite how much they cater to the male gaze and also despite Geralt as the protagonist. I find the world and the lore to be interesting and enjoy some of the story and gameplay elements.
I'd like there to be more video games with the choice of a female protagonist however I tend to prefer more blank slate player characters because often a set and fully defined female protagonist still feels like they expect the player to be a heterosexual male.
I'm not sure I want to touch fully on the gender neutral or equality aspects of your questions as they feel like a potential landmine.
I'd just be happy for a western game to acknowledge the possibility of a heterosexual, female gaze or even male/female homosexual gaze at this rate and not stuff its pronouns up.
Yeah, I'm looking at you random Skyrim guard who keeps referring to the Dragonborn as male, even while my female, Breton does a dragon shout right near them.
 
Yeah, I'm looking at you random Skyrim guard who keeps referring to the Dragonborn as male, even while my female, Breton does a dragon shout right near them.

Thanks for your reply kirving.

As for the little piece I just quoted, I'm pretty sure that's a bug. I have both male and female Dragonborns and I'm pretty sure female Dragonborns always get addressed as women.
 
Thanks for your reply kirving.

As for the little piece I just quoted, I'm pretty sure that's a bug. I have both male and female Dragonborns and I'm pretty sure female Dragonborns always get addressed as women.
It's not when the Dragonborn is addressed directly but just one of the random comments that a guard can make. It was also just an example that some of the QA in games doesn't pick up incorrect recognition of the sex of the player character and it's a bit immersion breaking for me. I still remember the annoyance I felt when reading the letter from the Emperor in Morrowind and it refers to the player character as male even with a female player character.
Edit - It tends to feel, for me, like the male character is default and the female character is an after thought.
 
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It's not when the Dragonborn is addressed directly but just one of the random comments that a guard can make.

Such as? I never heard a guard making a reference to a male dragonborn when I'm playing as a female character.

It was also just an example that some of the QA in games doesn't pick up incorrect recognition of the sex of the player character and it's a bit immersion breaking for me. I still remember the annoyance I felt when reading the letter from the Emperor in Morrowind and it refers to the player character as male even with a female player character.
Edit - It tends to feel, for me, like the male character is default and the female character is an after thought.

Not so much an after thought and more how programming works. All it means is that they put the male variable (0) before the female variable (1) in the code, which is basically just 1 line of code.

But yes, I guess you could say that the male character is the default one, also based on the marketing of Skyrim and most other games that gives you the option to play as both genders.
 
Such as? I never heard a guard making a reference to a male dragonborn when I'm playing as a female character.

This one,
"I have to wonder... what does the Dragonborn do once he's summoned by the Greybeards? Can the Thu'um be taught, like any skill?"

Edit - As I said, it's jarring for me. Other people may not even notice it. BioWare also have a history of not picking some of these things up in testing. There's a whole dialogue with Canderous in Kotor where he refers to a female character as being male when he refers to who they were in the past.

The whole default being male thing was really brought home to me when I played Old World Blues for Fallout New Vegas and you can converse with your own brain which even for a female character has a male voice over. Obsidian also tried to make a joke out of it by having your brain explain why this was the case. I didn't laugh. It just made me feel bad.
 
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This one,
"I have to wonder... what does the Dragonborn do once he's summoned by the Greybeards? Can the Thu'um be taught, like any skill?"

Edit - As I said, it's jarring for me. Other people may not even notice it. BioWare also have a history of not picking some of these things up in testing. There's a whole dialogue with Canderous in Kotor where he refers to a female character as being male when he refers to who they were in the past.

The whole default being male thing was really brought home to me when I played Old World Blues for Fallout New Vegas and you can converse with your own brain which even for a female character has a male voice over. Obsidian also tried to make a joke out of it by having your brain explain why this was the case. I didn't laugh. It just made me feel bad.

Well, that's only one line though, and I just looked at the entire database of guard dialogue, it seems to be the only line that doesn't have a variable for the gender (basically a line of code that will change "he" to "she" if you're female).

About the brain voice; I can't say I have seen that. Can you tell me what the joke was?
 

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I also recognise that a voiced character does involve extra costs, and would consider that to be an acceptable argument for NOT doing it in a lower-budget game. But maybe they should consider doing female-only more often if there are such budget constraints.
Agreed, though female-only leads come with added obstacles. Remember Me was apparently rejected by several publishers because it had a female character.
 
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