Game is highly frustrating for new players

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devivre;n9646691 said:
Near rank 10 as was mentioned in the post you were referring to, no, in terms of card quality and challenge it's not easier to play in casual at the moment (you often get matched with rank 17+ opponents). If someone struggles in ranked, then the deck probably will struggle in casual as well at this level.
That's nonsense imho. In ranked even at rank 10 you can be sure you'll face all netdecks. In casual, while there are netdecks around, it's much more varied. And even if you face players with higher ranks, chance are they are taking a break from the meta and trying out stuff.

In my casual queue i've faced a huge variety of stuff, incluing deathrattle monster, kambi SK, reveal/spy hybrid, etc... And i'm 3.5k mmr. At lower mmr you are bound to face even worse decks. In casual a month ago when i was lower mmr i've even faced people that used starter golds like triss.
 
Azdru;n9635641 said:
Gwent is leagues beyond and I sincerely hope it doesn´t go the Hearthstone route. So, NO! I don´t think your points are valid.
Agree entirely. I've been playing since the release (bought 0 kegs) and have a full collection, PLUS 20k extra scraps. The only thing I'm working on now is getting all the premium cards.
Gwent is fairly small (about 300 cards). It doesn't take long to build up a sizeable collection, either.



 
Oh - the best advice I can give new players? Save all your cards. Don't mill/scrap them.

The reason being that when CDPR changes cards, they usually give a full mill value for cards with significant changes. That's the time you mill every single card on that list. If you need to make the same card later, you've lost absolutely nothing. If you don't need the card immediately, you'll probably pull more of them from kegs along the way.

During the last major change (not the minor one), I think I gained something like 20k scraps milling extras.

PS - I'm in severe disagreement with offering full mill values, but it's the choice CDPR has chosen to make and I'll take full advantage of it every time.
 
It would be nice if there was a matchmaking option for casual games that only matches you with players of a similar level. Kind of like how ranked matches work. I've been matched up with a lot of brand new players on casual games, and these games have been very one-sided.
 

Burza46

CD PROJEKT RED
FORSAKEN_ESF;n9601731 said:
I’m a low ranking player and I’ve seen so many people play the same decks which becomes very boring, the game relies more on the cards you have than skill, it’s very rare to see a low ranking player do really well on a FPS game but not on this game.

Players can mil existing cards to make one good deck usually one that they have seen on the internet as well as a play guide or one a higher ranking players uses that they have seen on twitch or youtube. These people only care about cheap wins with one good deck they don’t care about collecting the cards or playing with multiple factions. Players should not be allowed to mil cards they started with or cards they have won from finishing the single player challenges.

There are also higher ranking players who are using second accounts which is also annoying.

You can still craft a tier 1 deck on a F2P account and rank up easily. I would recommend to pick a deck that you like and craft cards for it, also there are budget decks like this one: http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/32262-super-budget-competitive-deck-ver-2-for-new-f2p
 
Without being able to mill spare cards, we get less materials to both craft and transmute cards. Why do you want that, unless you want to have to pay more money? If you want to experience more deck variety, you need to play the game longer. All new players use starter decks because they don't have enough cards to craft new, unique ones.

Why does it matter how many factions someone likes to play with? I prefer to stick with 2 or 3 tops, but I could care less what other people do.
 
Err... you should've enable the milling till you finish with the SP Challenges plus few more Multiplayer games. It is actually not that hard to get to that point. Now with the Mahakam Ale Festival it's even easier.
 
I think describing how I play the game might help. I build a deck, use it in practice until I think I have the core bronze cards are sorted, then look for golds and silvers to enhance it. If I think I have a decent deck, I take it into casual and plug away, hoping to win 50% and expecting 25%, tweaking along the way. I expect to get enjoyment from discovering interesting combos and trying different decks, and think that this should allow me to win a decent amount of time on casual. The issue is that other people just want to win, and my tactics are clearly inferior to milling and netdecking because silvers and golds really help poorly optimized decks that I end up using a fair amount of the time.

I fall to playing casual before a deck is complete because of the progress towards kegs, often just happy to win a single round. It doesn't help that practice mode is very one dimensional, sometimes playing the exact same cards in the same way, and has no selectable options. If practice had rewards after any number of games, it would help, even though the AI and decks are transparent and boring to play against. This problem is worse because I'm not going to buy kegs for their current price unless they have guaranteed rewards of some sort. I gladly bought the starter package.

I should point out that I played the closed beta a fair amount, and I don't think CDPR wants this to be my experience, judging by the boost to starting cards, bronze cards in general, and the removal of gold immunity. Also, if someone plays the stock golds and silvers, with my closed beta experience, I generally take them out, but then here comes a gold and silver weather deck that I don't have nearly enough flexibility in my deck or outright skill to fight.


After my last post, I decided to step up my game, look at netdecks a bit, and added witchers to give deck thinning and make a hybrid swarm deck on top of my consume, a pretty strong bronze setup. This has been much more effective, but I think it is a pretty fine distinction for a new player around level 12 to have to make to be successful against netdecks.

I know that most of these issues will iron out once I get around level 30, get kegs from season rewards, and I settle on which decks I want to mill, but at this level, running into obstacles that I don't think will be alleviated with just buying 10 kegs, results in a lot of frustration.

Disallowing milling until a very high level would solve the early netdecking, but it would create a bunch of other problems such as lack of deck variety, and - even worse - look like like a blatant cash grab.
 
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gigabomb;n9653131 said:
I think describing how I play the game might help. I build a deck, use it in practice until I think I have the core bronze cards are sorted, then look for golds and silvers to enhance it. If I think I have a decent deck, I take it into casual and plug away, hoping to win 50% and expecting 25%, tweaking along the way. I expect to get enjoyment from discovering interesting combos and trying different decks, and think that this should allow me to win a decent amount of time on casual. The issue is that other people just want to win, and my tactics are clearly inferior to milling and netdecking because silvers and golds really help poorly optimized decks that I end up using a fair amount of the time.

I fall to playing casual before a deck is complete because of the progress towards kegs, often just happy to win a single round. It doesn't help that practice mode is very one dimensional, sometimes playing the exact same cards in the same way, and has no selectable options. If practice had rewards after any number of games, it would help, even though the AI and decks are transparent and boring to play against. This problem is worse because I'm not going to buy kegs for that their current price unless they have guaranteed rewards of some sort. I gladly bought the starter package.

I should point out that I played the closed beta a fair amount, and I don't think CDPR wants this to be my experience, judging by the boost to starting cards, bronze cards in general, and the removal of gold immunity. Also, if someone plays the stock golds and silvers, with my closed beta experience, I generally take them out, but then here comes a gold and silver weather deck that I don't have nearly enough flexibility in my deck or outright skill to fight.


After my last post, I decided to step up my game, look at netdecks a bit, and added witchers to give deck thinning and make a hybrid swarm deck on top of my consume, a pretty strong bronze setup. This has been much more effective, but I think it is a pretty fine distinction for a new player around level 12 to have to make to be successful against netdecks.

I know that most of these issues will iron out once I get around level 30, get kegs from season rewards, and I settle on which decks I want to mill, but at this level, running into obstacles that I don't think will be alleviated with just buying 10 kegs, results in a lot of frustration.

Disallowing milling until a very high level would solve the early netdecking, but it would create a bunch of other problems such as lack of deck variety, and - even worse - look like like a blatant cash grab.
You can go a long way with the starter golds and silver. Making a reveal nilfgaard deck is an excellent pick as a new player since 2 of the 4 starter golds are good in that deck (geralt does see play in competitive reveal builds). Use that deck to farm kegs (aka scraps), decide on a deck and craft the stuff for it.
 
DMaster2;n9653341 said:
You can go a long way with the starter golds and silver. Making a reveal nilfgaard deck is an excellent pick as a new player since 2 of the 4 starter golds are good in that deck (geralt does see play in competitive reveal builds). Use that deck to farm kegs (aka scraps), decide on a deck and craft the stuff for it.

I appreciate the input about the reveal deck. I have just fashioned a reveal deck and made prototype decks for every faction so that I can find what is strong without golds and mill the rest out of necessity.

I am trying to illustrate how frustrated new players must be. I've done this before in the closed beta, and I know it will get better once I farm kegs. I am commenting here because some people are having a lot of frustration, and to be experiencing a similar type of frustration despite having closed beta experience seems to point to a common problem. I understand that problem might be that my skill level is low, and that I refuse to mill most of my cards to craft others, but if I had to go through another reset I wouldn't do it again, I'd just mill everything but one deck.

It is extremely rare that I run into anyone that is just using the basic golds like I do, even at level 10 in casual. I am trying to ask if this is what the developers want, because this is what's happening.
 
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Ruleaus;n9650551 said:
Without being able to mill spare cards, we get less materials to both craft and transmute cards. Why do you want that, unless you want to have to pay more money? If you want to experience more deck variety, you need to play the game longer. All new players use starter decks because they don't have enough cards to craft new, unique ones.

Why does it matter how many factions someone likes to play with? I prefer to stick with 2 or 3 tops, but I could care less what other people do.

I think people should build up a deck over time by playing the game rather than being able to craft a pro net deck at level 10, I have no problem with people being able to mil cards just not the ones you start with they should be locked any cards you get after that point should be able to be milled
 
gigabomb;n9654151 said:
I am trying to illustrate how frustrated new players must be.
And why should they be frustrated? Why should they feel entitled to something, especially when entering a peculiar genre like a CCG? If you start a new CCG you should EXPECT to find some difficulties at first.

It seems a lot of people misuranderstand the issue of the so-called "new player experience". The issue isn't that you start and have difficulties winning games. That is NORMAL. And i'm amazed people seems to forget that. You lack cards, you lack skill and you lack experience as a new player. And believe it or not the cards aren't the most important factor here.

People should accept that they'll have a rough start NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY SPEND. Be it zero or 1000$.

As i said the key factor in an evaluation of the new player experience is how fast is the progress. This is why i don't particularly like shadowvers model that shower you in packs when you first start but then it slow down horribly. Gwent is pretty linear and fast. You don't get too much at the start, but you'll keep getting new stuff each day. In fact you can easily get a keg per day, only by winning rounds. That's like what, 10 games at worst (counting 6 1-2 and 4 0-2)? You get ton of scraps, in fact the worst case is always worth 60 scraps, going up depending on the pulls. And you get to pick which leg and silver you get out of 3 choices.

The games gives you all the tools needed to progress, as long you keep your expectations realistic.

If you expect to enter a new CCG and be competitive day 1, maybe even as a f2p player, well good luck and send me a message when you'll find it...
 
And I am at that point too. My deck isn't quite built the way I want it built right now. But I can only win 1 round because of the slow power creep in higher players decks. I don't quite have the silvers I want for my deck yet. I don't quite have the golds I want for my deck yet. I have scraps, but I waiting till I can craft 2 silvers at once so I can stick them in. I haven't been lucky in any of my keg drops. I keep getting the same bronzes I already have and hoping to pull a good gold. But I am also at that point where I am levl 14 and rank 7. Fighting people way above my deck level who will always win because I just don't have the deck strength, card strength, and the deck I quite want right now. It's a hybrid of starter deck and cards I know I am going to use later.
 
DMaster2;n9658141 said:
If you expect to enter a new CCG and be competitive day 1, maybe even as a f2p player, well good luck and send me a message when you'll find it...

Thank you for the advice.

Pruny;n9658201 said:
no pain no gain

I must have missed it in the CDPR about section.

"Cry me a river" is not a great way to entice new players unless you have a monopoly.

TheRedWatcher;n9658851 said:
Fighting people way above my deck level who will always win because I just don't have the deck strength, card strength, and the deck I quite want right now. It's a hybrid of starter deck and cards I know I am going to use later.

I don't think that the primary strategy for new players should be to mill several decks worth of cards and netdeck to "learn" the game, although a lot of successful players get into the game that way. I'm posting because I think that CDPR is a great, friendly company that has crafted several great games, and I'd like to see some changes. This appears to be the same for other newcomers that are posting here. If changes are made, our woes will be long forgotten, but I want this game to continue to grow, and the frustration is a dense fog at lower levels. CDPR appears willing to make massive changes to their game that come out for the better, and I am hoping to see something down the road that resembles optional training with rewards.
 
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gigabomb;n9659441 said:
I don't think that the primary strategy for new players should be to mill several decks worth of cards and netdeck to "learn" the game, although a lot of successful players get into the game that way. I'm posting because I think that CDPR is a great, friendly company that has crafted several great games, and I'd like to see some changes. This appears to be the same for other newcomers that are posting here. If changes are made, our woes will be long forgotten, but I want this game to continue to grow, and the frustration is a dense fog at lower levels. CDPR appears willing to make massive changes to their game that come out for the better, and I am hoping to see something down the road that resembles optional training with rewards.

My background is in strategy card games. I played Gwent in Witcher 3. But I have played Yugioh and MTG in the past. While Gwent is a bit different. They are fundamentally the same sort of mechanics. In the sense of building a deck that best suits your playstyle. I know how to play Gwent and I don't need to Netdeck to win. :) [this is all meant in a light, friendly tone] I already completed the challenges with my deck and figured that was enough learning how each faction works, just enough to tweek what I want. And play how I want to play.
 
The fact that Gwent's dailies don't require you to actually win games (unlike the vast majority of HS quests) really saved the game for me when I first started back in CB. Well, that alongside old resilience and ST always winning the coin flip. Guaranteeing a keg or two per day definitely makes progression feel faster than other CCGs, which certainly has a positive effect on new player retention. Of course, I am in no way trying to apply my personal experience to the majority of new players. I got my butt kicked almost a dozen times by the crappy practice AI before getting a hold of the flow of the game, and my multiplayer win rate was decidedly not great. After all, everyone has something they look for in games like this that they may or may not find.

I will admit, however, that the current transition from casual to ranked play is rather awkward because the matchmaking in ladder is just so much better. Lower levels of the ladder do make for a better "kiddie pool" so to speak.
 
The problem is the rewards are nice, but the rewards are underwhelming. Opened 4 packs, all of them had just copies of cards I pulled. Out of the 4 I opened only 1 had 2 silvers in it. Which is always nice to choose between two cards I really want. But! At the same time, I opened 5 packs the day before, and 6 the day before and I keep pulling cards I already own. Not a single gold or silver in them, and I am sitting here choosing between full moon potion, overdose potion and bloody roar. I'm like -sigh-. I need more golds for my NG deck, and to craft one is 800 scraps. Fine. But at the same time I am at 450 scraps and I also need more silvers.
 
TheRedWatcher;n9659691 said:
The problem is the rewards are nice, but the rewards are underwhelming.

I'm beginning to view kegs as a source of scrap more than anything else. I've decided not to craft anything but the occasional bronze and golds until I have more of them.

And the single player challenges were great, I completed them after the dailies to get a keg for the day and get a leg up, but now they award XP, so that leg up is actually just an alternative to the daily bonuses.
 
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gigabomb;n9654151 said:
I am trying to illustrate how frustrated new players must be. [...]

As I already said, I don´t think your points are valid. And I also don´t think it is fair that you try to sell your personal experience as advocatory statements for those ominous new players on whose behalf you claim to speak. Everything you describe points to personal issues with a CCG-like game and the concept of Gwent itself.

My experience was great so far and I refuse to have you talk in my name. I AM one of the new players whose experience is affected by changes.
I know this is anecdotal and maybe not representative but I feel the need to present a counterpoint to your arguments. Gwent.png

If this is what a new player can achieve in a week, what reason is there to be frustrated?
 

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