How effective should law enforcement be?

[scywio]

Simply put, how effective should law enforcement be?

EDIT: Meaning across several types of crimes, not just the mass murders or attack on a police station which should obviously be met with a response.

Discuss.

The way i imagine it is that there should be 3 different levels of police.
I.The regular street police. Corrupted, low on morale and poorly equipped, they would act only when faced with the crime directly or when called.
II. The SWAT tier police. Guys like the ones we saw shooting in trailer. They would have good equipment, excellent tactics but would respond only in case of grand criminal acts like the on you exampled.
III. The FBI tier guys. Someone like the guy from the trailer, the one we see at the end. Lone agents or small squads that would rather then attacking you head on, try to track you down and either assassinate you or set up a trap to take you into custody. These would be the best of the best. Not maybe as heavily geared as SWAT guys but with a lot better skill and powerful gadgets. They would not be sten after you just like that, rather they would star hunting you after you would commit some serious crime like mass murder ot execution of some VIP and the SWATs would not be able to beat you allowing you to escape.

This system could work like in GTA games with different level of pursuit depending on committed crimes with the exception of the FBI guys that would not go after you at once but like i said earlier they would wait a little, start investigation and then slowly get closer to you. You could also attempt to get the off you back by killing, bribing or hacking witnesses or contacts and bribing key police officers and administration personel. Factions could play a big part in this. Gang could offer you aid and protection in confrontations while corporations could pay off the lower tier police and bribe the higher level officers to harm the FBI guys investigations. There is a lot potential here that i hope they will use.

 

[walkingdarkly]

@scywio

Read my post for basic info on Police and the law system,

I. The SWAT tier police. Guys like the ones we saw shooting in trailer. They would have good equipment, excellent tactics but would respond only in case of grand criminal acts like the on you exampled.

Those guys firing the guns in the trailer were regular beat cops who don't get paid enough to deal with a Cyberpsycho.

III. The FBI tier guys. Someone like the guy from the trailer, the one we see at the end. Lone agents or small squads that would rather then attacking you head on, try to track you down and either assassinate you or set up a trap to take you into custody.

That guy in the trailer way bac when was part of MAX-TAC (Maximum Force Tactical Division), which is Cyberpunk's version of a SWAT team. Though in Cyberpunk they're called C-SWAT (Cybernetic Special Weapons & Tactical Squad). They're only job is to deal with people who've gone Cyberpsycho, people who had so much cyberware installed they went insane. They normally do not go after flesh bags and if they have to they would simply put a bullet in your head.

Also to add, there is no FBI the way we know it in Cyberpunk. The way crime escalation would happen in Night CIty, is more cops with heavier weapons. If you were borg'ed out with heavy cyberware like the lady in the trailer then you would have one of several C-Swat companies called. If you messed with a Corporation, then you might or would see military styled guys come after you, these aren't US military like in GTA but Corp military, they will kill you on sight. Of course, as I stated in my earlier post, most cops may as well just cap you so they didn't have to deal with paperwork.

You could also attempt to get the off you back by killing, bribing or hacking witnesses or contacts and bribing key police officers and administration personnel. Factions could play a big part in this. Gang could offer you aid and protection in confrontations while corporations could pay off the lower tier police and bribe the higher level officers to harm the FBI guys investigations. There is a lot potential here that i hope they will use

The first would be interesting and fairly Cyberpunkish. For Factions and Gangs, that'll get bloated because each big Corp has it's own standing army and each gang is nearly the size of the army. And for gangs, it would depend on each gang, some wouldn't help you at all and would more than likely kill you on the spot so they don't get bothered by cops. Others may help you but for a price and some would just turn you over for giggles. Then there's the Bozos...yeah or for Sard, The Bradi Bunch gang...*hides*

And you're right there is potential but there is already precedent set with the Law And Order system of not just the world of Cyberpunk but Night City itself. Just have to wait and see how CDPR handles digitizing and transferring those parts of the 2020.

 

[SigilFey]

From the way these description sound (and I am NOT familiar with Cyberpunk at all, I'm learning) I think the actual gameplay involving police could work as follows:

Every region has its own "police force", whether governmental police, corporate police, private security, or gangs. The player will have dynamic relations with all of these groups. If "things" need to be done with "people" in a certain area of the city, the player will need to decide how that groups local "police" are likely to respond.

+ If I'm in good with, say, a gang in a rough area, and I know that other police forces will have minimal presence, I should be cool to get "permission" from the local gang leader, maybe even get some gangsters as backup, and go kick doors in. Overwhelming force / shock and awe tactics.

- If I'm not on the best of terms with that area's forces, I might want to bring backup in the form of official corporate police support as a show of force. Then, both sides can slug it out if things get hairy.

~ If I'm not in good with any of the involved factions, I'll have to work solo...or maybe call on personal acquaintances...try to get in and out without anyone ever knowing I was there. If things get ugly, I'll need to flee.

Based on past choices made throughout the game, various options would become available or not according to my relationships with various factions at that point.

 

[mcflurry928]

There should be bribery implemented into the system. He'd let you off with a warning. Bribes should get more expensive as you keep resorting to it after committing a crime. Murder crime is unfortunately not acceptable with bribe especially if it's a high ranking corporate and if it appears on news outlet before it's too late. They will come swiftly to take action with everything they got to make sure they keep their image safe. Most cops, if not all cops, should be presented as corrupt cops that will gladly take anyone's money for their own purpose. The police should be largely inept in fighting crime and organized crime because they give them what they want. Only the few incorruptible cops are on the scene making a difference. They plant undercover agent into crime mobs and potentially corporate zones.

In terms of arsenal, they will be provided with pistols. They're not as effective as corporate paramilitary forces or psychosquads which are given state of the art weaponry to deal with anything. Deadbeat cops are expected to deadbeat cops. They have little support for their HQ to be provided with only more deadbeat cops. If anything, they could have drone techs and mechanical robots to help them out in small skirmishes. They are lethal, but can be countered easily with EMP weaponry and a few well placed drones.

Speaking of EMP weaponry, it should be absolutely forbidden to carry one and anyone attempting to make one should be sentenced to death by the law enforcement. So basically, they'll shoot you on sight. It'll be the top priority forbidden weaponry on their list to enforce.

 

[Suhiira]

Like real-life crime it's mostly a matter of how "high profile" the crime is.

Muggings (outside the corp controlled zones) - So commonplace the only time a cop is going to respond is if it happens right in front of them (and maybe not even then).

Robberies - sort of depends on what you rob, the corner store, file a report and if the cops come across the perp they'll bust them. Now if you hit a bank, gun shop, or jewellery store they'll actually put some time and effort into finding you. Hit a Corp and everyone and their brother is going to be after you, even if they work for a rival Corp. Because either they want to make "points" with the Corp you hit or they want the information you stole and will dump your body in a deep hole after they get it from you.

Murder - Even in Night City they can't have serial killers running around. Now two gangs fighting over turf they'll pretty much ignore. Same if some pimp kills his whore. But start killing "law abiding" citizens and they'll be after you, because some Corp put time and money into training them to do a job the Corp wants done. And just like these days, kill a cop, ANY COP, and all their brother/sister officers will want a piece of you.

As to cops "executing" perps on the spot ... sorta ...
Outside 3rd World Hellholes modern cops usually go out of their way not to kill a perp as long as they're not actively endangering anyone. In Cyberpunk it's more that if you're a potential danger (i.e. you're armed or "dangerous") they'll just shoot you on the spot, less paperwork to fill out.

No "FBI", OK, I can buy no central Federal government investigative branch. But any large city police force IS going to have detective and CSI branches. So while maybe not as effective as an FBI they're going to have all the tools and skills necessary to do the same job.

As to the video "trailer", the girl had apparently murdered all those "law abiding" citizens ... BUT ... by the time Max-Tac arrived she was apparently basically catatonic, not currently a danger to anyone. So yeah, maybe they took her in, "reprogrammed", and recruited her.

Or here's another take ...
Maybe she was a Max-Tac officer in the first place.
The "reprogramming" didn't fully take and off duty she snapped.

 

[walkingdarkly]

@Suhiira

Most of what I've posted so far comes from just general info found in the core rule book, I did find a full source book for cops called Protect&Serve

And yep there is CSI and the whole nine yards in the main stations for cops in Night City. And from what I've read so far in P&S, it's going to be interesting to see how CDPR and 2077 handle cop players because cops in Night City always ride in pairs.

 

[walkingdarkly]

There should be bribery implemented into the system. He'd let you off with a warning. Bribes should get more expensive as you keep resorting to it after committing a crime. Murder crime is unfortunately not acceptable with bribe especially if it's a high ranking corporate and if it appears on news outlet before it's too late. They will come swiftly to take action with everything they got to make sure they keep their image safe. Most cops, if not all cops, should be presented as corrupt cops that will gladly take anyone's money for their own purpose. The police should be largely inept in fighting crime and organized crime because they give them what they want. Only the few incorruptible cops are on the scene making a difference. They plant undercover agent into crime mobs and potentially corporate zones.

Cops aren't all that inept, it's just that corporations own the gangs, all the gangs. And basically do everything an everyday cop does but more heavy handed.

In terms of arsenal, they will be provided with pistols. They're not as effective as corporate paramilitary forces or psychosquads which are given state of the art weaponry to deal with anything. Deadbeat cops are expected to deadbeat cops. They have little support for their HQ to be provided with only more deadbeat cops. If anything, they could have drone techs and mechanical robots to help them out in small skirmishes. They are lethal, but can be countered easily with EMP weaponry and a few well placed drones.

Cops in Night City are given more than just a pistol, they're given nearly full assault gear plus body armor as standard issue gear due to how dangerous the streets are even in the middle of the day. And reading through the cop source book, they can get access to "RoboHounds" as drone assists.

Speaking of EMP weaponry, it should be absolutely forbidden to carry one and anyone attempting to make one should be sentenced to death by the law enforcement. So basically, they'll shoot you on sight. It'll be the top priority forbidden weaponry on their list to enforce.

On one hand, there are no longer gun control laws in the world of Cyberpunk 2020, how ever assault weapons and machineguns are illegal to have, it's just no one pays attentions. As for EMP weapons and your style of punishment is a bit much, besides murder is already punishable by death. There's an actual EMP rifle called the Techtronica M40 Pulse Rifle and runs you 3,500 EB. So when it comes to guns and cops as long as you aren't waving around your assault rifle the cops won't care.

 

[Guest 4149880]

Or.... how effective could you be as a Cop in law enforcement? That's the real question.

 

[Metropolice]

Especially if we have to look forward to portraying police (corporate or official or governmental) ourselves as players as possible career path, I think it might be nice to not have a constant warzone or sea of tranquillity around us - only the extremes, I mean.

Whether as cop or non-cop player, it would be nice to (also) see minor or trivial things as you traverse some normal or even more dangerous areas of the city. Some simple arguments, someone getting arrested or told to go away, etc.

I get that Night City is special, fictional and dangerous with that certain Judge Dredd style feel, but I don't think trivial or less than dangerous things that can be solved through other means simply vanish.

Time will tell, but putting focus on little details or various things happening around you will satisfy the player more than mostly or only providing the "black and white" kind of solutions. Having that finer detail or possibilities would also allow you more things in the cop career path while also giving you more options as non-cop or criminal who might interact with any type of police in the world.

In short, please no simplified GTA-like wanted level system where cops usually just know how to shoot at you or run after you with a baton - make it unique and diverse. That is, I think, what more players will love even if it means more work.